The Hockey News: Chances for second Toronto-area NHL team could be dead by September

[hockeywiz542]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...area-NHL-team-could-be-dead-by-September.html

The prospect of a 20,000-seat rink, and the chance of any NHL team that might come with it, could be dead by the end of September if the deputy mayor of Markham has his way.

Jack Heath, originally a supporter of the GTA Centre in the Toronto suburb of Markham, has put forward a motion to effectively kill the financial framework for the arena. Heath will put his motion to Markham council Sept. 17, with a vote coming a week later.

Heath said what he sees as dwindling chances to get an NHL franchise in the world's most underserviced hockey market is the driving force behind his decision. He pointed to new ownership and stability for the Phoenix Coyotes and sentiment that the league will expand to Seattle and Quebec City - despite the fact the NHL has not said anything on the matter - as evidence that the Toronto area is far back of the queue in the NHL's eyes.

“When you add it all up, a second franchise for the GTA is not a priority," Heath said. "I have no interest in duplicating Copps Coliseum."

The financial framework calls for the town of Markham to borrow $325 million for the project. Half that amount - $162.5 million - would be paid back by a group headed by former Bauer chairman Graeme Roustan, who would receive a 99-year lease on the rink and operate the facility. The other half would be repaid with controversial volunteer levy on developers.

Heath's motion may very well have enough support to pass, which would kill the project. But should Roustan come to council with a more favorable deal, it could be saved. One councillor recently said Roustan needs a "game changer" to save the deal.

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[LeafOfBread]

Meh, it never really made much sense. Markham is such a crappy location too.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

It's pretty poorly connected as well. I'd rather see a rink erected around Kennedy station than Markham. I think the best location is around the North York City Centre.

 

[varano]

It's pretty poorly connected as well. I'd rather see a rink erected around Kennedy station than Markham. I think the best location is around the North York City Centre.

Both of those areas are too ethnic.Markham is a very high income area. Theres also next to no parking near he NYCC. I work near the NYCC and would stream hockey games at my store during the vancouver cup run. No one even knew what hockey was. Within the next 10 years though the infrastructure will change huge. 8 buildings going up within the next 2 years or so from yonge/steeles to yonge/sheppard.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Both of those areas are too ethnic.Markham is a very high income area. Theres also next to no parking near he NYCC. I work near the NYCC and would stream hockey games at my store during the vancouver cup run. No one even knew what hockey was. Within the next 10 years though the infrastructure will change huge. 8 buildings going up within the next 2 years or so from yonge/steeles to yonge/sheppard.

The denser parts of Toronto are generally quite "ethnic". A rink in the NYCC area would attract fans from around the immediate region. The idea is to connect the rink to public transportation. Much like the ACC, and multi-story parking facilities can be made.

I wouldn't think Kennedy is a good idea either. It's just that Markham isn't well connected to the rest of the GTA. I can see Hamilton receiving a team before a second Toronto team.

 

[varano]

The denser parts of Toronto are generally quite "ethnic". A rink in the NYCC area would attract fans from around the immediate region. The idea is to connect the rink to public transportation. Much like the ACC, and multi-story parking facilities can be made.

I wouldn't think Kennedy is a good idea either. It's just that Markham isn't well connected to the rest of the GTA. I can see Hamilton receiving a team before a second Toronto team.

But are they dense with Hockey fans??

In my opinion I think that this second GTA team would be a departure from the connection with the subway lines. For instance, I could see people from sheppard south going for the leafs while people used to commuting with a car (In Vaughan area, also newmarket, aurora, etc) going for GTA2. I personally dont go to leaf games often because I hate driving into the city. I wouldnt mind driving to Markham though.

I would agree that the NYCC would make sense AFTER the plans I spoke of simply because its strongly suggested that theres a 10 year plan for a subway extension from Yonge/finch going north into vaughan. Then you have the best of both worlds.

 

[Warden of the North]

The chance will never be dead, it will just go on the back burner.

If Gary ever says "we want a second TO team", it will happen in short order

 

[veedubn1]

Good news. Markets like Quebec City need a team more than Toronto needs a second one... especially in Markham of all places lol

 

[TribalPhoenix]

It's good for the people of Markham. I grew up there, and my mom still lives there about 3km from the rink. The tax hikes are ridiculous, and the amount of traffic a sports team would bring would paralyze an infrastructure that is already stretched to the max.

And I’m not sure why people mock Markham; it’s linked via the 407 and the 404 to Scarborough, Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, Stouffville, Maple, Woodbridge, Richmond Hill, Thornhill, Newmarket, Aurora, etc. Add all that up, that’s a whole lotta people within a 30 minute drive in any direction where there is a whole lot of money… Markham alone has about 350,000 people, and some of the highest land value and average salary per household in the country.

 

[theaub]

On the plus side, this means another hilarious council meeting on the vote night

 

[Mess]

Meh, it never really made much sense. Markham is such a crappy location too.

Goodbye Markham & Hello Kitchener/Waterloo

 

[The Magic Man]

The denser parts of Toronto are generally quite "ethnic". A rink in the NYCC area would attract fans from around the immediate region. The idea is to connect the rink to public transportation. Much like the ACC, and multi-story parking facilities can be made.

I wouldn't think Kennedy is a good idea either. It's just that Markham isn't well connected to the rest of the GTA. I can see Hamilton receiving a team before a second Toronto team.

I agree that the team needs to be on the QEW/401 corridor but I don't think Hamilton is the answer. There isn't enough corporate dollars in this city. Near half the population are losers, as well. Trust me, I was born and raised here. I work for one of the biggest companies here as well. Apparently a lot of the money teams count on are in the big money boxes, and I don't think they'd sell well here. The upper balcony would be sold out every year and the TV ratings would do well anywhere in the area, but anything expensive like boxes and platinum seats would be tough to sell.


Personally I think the NHL should do a study with non Leaf fans in the area. I would guess an "Ontario" labelled team would do well. There is millions of hockey fans in this area that can't stand our beloved team, due to it's over coverage and I think despite the fact that it's best to be in the GTA, it should distance itself in any relation to the Leafs. I've always like the Eglington/403 area. It's close to the 401/403 highways and there's land to build on.

 

[The Magic Man]

Goodbye Markham & Hello Kitchener/Waterloo

This would make sense to me as a centrally located team. There is more then enough people within 30 minutes and, as I said, would be a good spot to label it an "Ontario" team.

The only thing I personally don't like is it's a pain in the ass to get to the area from Hamilton. There's no direct 400 series route.

 

[themightyquinn]

It's too bad that it looks like it is falling apart. In the NHL's eyes, this is the best spot/chance for a 2nd team in Toronto.

For those not living in the area, knowing the geography of Toronto helps you to understand why "Markham" (aka. Toronto 2) is the only option. Since there is no "South" end of Toronto - unless you're in a boat - you can only go West, North or East.

Bettman will NEVER allow Hamilton, Kitchener/Waterloo or any West GTA team to exist because of the threat it causes to Buffalo. Therefore it is only East or North. The East end has the lowest population and would be too difficult for the heavily populated West end to reach - especially on weeknights - driving through Toronto rush hour traffic.

Therefore the only valid/realistic option is the North End and Markham fits the bill perfectly. It can be reached equally by both the East and West ends of the city. The arena will be built on top of a GO Train station for people coming from downtown. It is 100 yards away from the 407 freeway for people who drive and it is far enough removed that Buffalo won't be affected (a key NHL condition).

Personally I think Downsview would be the perfect choice (has it's own subway stop, Go Train stop, is next door to the 401/400, lots of parking available, etc) but this would have been the next best thing and would have been in a location that the NHL would accept.

The Leafs will always be the Leafs but having a 2nd team in the area wouldn't hurt.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

The GTA already has a second team. They're called the Buffalo Sabres and they're terrible.

 

[The Magic Man]

It's too bad that it looks like it is falling apart. In the NHL's eyes, this is the best spot/chance for a 2nd team in Toronto.

For those not living in the area, knowing the geography of Toronto helps you to understand why "Markham" (aka. Toronto 2) is the only option. Since there is no "South" end of Toronto - unless you're in a boat - you can only go West, North or East.

Bettman will NEVER allow Hamilton, Kitchener/Waterloo or any West GTA team to exist because of the threat it causes to Buffalo. Therefore it is only East or North. The East end has the lowest population and would be too difficult for the heavily populated West end to reach - especially on weeknights - driving through Toronto rush hour traffic.

Therefore the only valid/realistic option is the North End and Markham fits the bill perfectly. It can be reached equally by both the East and West ends of the city. The arena will be built on top of a GO Train station for people coming from downtown. It is 100 yards away from the 407 freeway for people who drive and it is far enough removed that Buffalo won't be affected (a key NHL condition).

Personally I think Downsview would be the perfect choice (has it's own subway stop, Go Train stop, is next door to the 401/400, lots of parking available, etc) but this would have been the next best thing and would have been in a location that the NHL would accept.

The Leafs will always be the Leafs but having a 2nd team in the area wouldn't hurt.

The GTA already has a second team. They're called the Buffalo Sabres and they're terrible.

I don't think there is any reason for BUF to worry. I know maybe a handful of BUF fans and I'm in what you would consider the middle of TOR and BUF. The few Sabre fans I know are from St Kitts/Niagara area and almost all are actually American.

I think just East is best for another successful team due to the population you can tap into in the area from Kitchener/Waterloo to TOR, and from Hamilton to Guelph. Everything in between all that is way over a million people and a central location to it all and obscure location label like Ontario would be perfect.

Anything too far west and you getting into Sens territory. It'd be nice to let them survive as best they can.

I think in the end it would only infringe on fans of random teams like PIT and NYR, CHI, BOS. There is millions of fans that love hockey but can't stand TOR. The NHL would be wise to tap into that. It really is an under serviced market. I think it would instantly be a top 5 earning team for the league.

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

Kennedy station would be a horrible area to put a team. First of all it's near a very dangerous area, second of all, it's not all that convenient being located at the very end of the subway.

I don't think GTA will get a hockey team anytime soon. IMO next will be Seattle then Quebec City then one or two other US markets.

 

[Jatt]

Good.

 

[Dylbot]

Come to Hamilton! Great sports city that could use a boost.

 

[mikeo1]

But are they dense with Hockey fans??

In my opinion I think that this second GTA team would be a departure from the connection with the subway lines. For instance, I could see people from sheppard south going for the leafs while people used to commuting with a car (In Vaughan area, also newmarket, aurora, etc) going for GTA2. I personally dont go to leaf games often because I hate driving into the city. I wouldnt mind driving to Markham though.

I would agree that the NYCC would make sense AFTER the plans I spoke of simply because its strongly suggested that theres a 10 year plan for a subway extension from Yonge/finch going north into vaughan. Then you have the best of both worlds.

Downtown Toronto isn't dense with hockey fans, yet the ACC seems to be doing well.

To all others: Markham (or one of its neighboring municipalities - RH, Vaughan maybe?) is the best chance of Toronto getting another hockey team. Its perfectly located, accessible, and there is enough land for the thing to get built.

K-W or Hamilton are pipe dreams and would be disastrous. A new team won't have the draw to attract people from afar, and those cities have very little else going for them - no one from the GTA is going to be making the trip to see a hockey game there. You can talk all you want about the million or so people in southwestern ontario, but that population is too dispersed to ever justify a hockey team.

 

[LeafOfBread]

Goodbye Markham & Hello Kitchener/Waterloo

Coming from someone who actually studies at UW and lives in Waterloo for most of the year, hell no.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Kennedy station would be a horrible area to put a team. First of all it's near a very dangerous area, second of all, it's not all that convenient being located at the very end of the subway.

I don't think GTA will get a hockey team anytime soon. IMO next will be Seattle then Quebec City then one or two other US markets.

It was a suggestion over Markham. I wouldn't like Kennedy, but "dangerous areas" are normally cheap. You could build a stadium and just gentrify the entire area. It's becoming obvious that that the days of densely concentrated socialised housing is coming to an end in Canada.

The Naz: The Eglinton/ 403 Area may work, but I think if cannot work in the NYCC area, Vaughan is most ideal. It will be accessible by all forms of transport and their downtown plants look really well. To be covered by all public transport services, Hwy 407 and 7. Due to the recent developments, I could see that town becoming extremely successful in the future.

Hamilton is depressing, but the developments such as light rail, McMaster U-associated/ healthcare projects, and GO rail line does make it pretty attractive. Give it a team and it'll probably help cheer up the town. Most sport franchises are usually located in working class areas anyways. It's all about transportation with a decent entertainment/ hospitality corridor being an extra.

 

[Stephen]

GTA II makes no sense.

What's the potential fanbase anyway? A bunch of diehard hockey fans who live in the area who hate the Leafs, who don't have another NHL team to cheer for, who find it difficult to get to the ACC? Who want to shell out for an expansion team with no identity? Or is it just Leaf fans who they figure will just randomly enjoy the convenience of however many extra home games in Toronto?

 

[mix1home]

GTA II makes no sense.

What's the potential fanbase anyway? A bunch of diehard hockey fans who live in the area who hate the Leafs, who don't have another NHL team to cheer for, who find it difficult to get to the ACC? Who want to shell out for an expansion team with no identity? Or is it just Leaf fans who they figure will just randomly enjoy the convenience of however many extra home games in Toronto?

i think it makes a lot of sense. All those whiny fans will instantly become fans of new team. And Disgruntled Observer will finally get grounded.

PS. Name new team Marlies and rename Marlies into Toronto Exhibits. Done and done.