Post-Game Talk (GBU): The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly; 3-2 over Chicago, 11/19/23

[BFLO]

what happened to the speed? We're the youngest team in the league but don't look young at all with regards to speed.

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics - Teams

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics for teams including skating speed, skating distance, shot speed, shot location, and zone time.

edge.nhl.com

According to the NHL we're one of the slowest teams in the league.

NHL edge is the NHL's bio-metrics stats site. It's a pretty rough layout and you can't look at all 32 teams at once, it's top 10 or 1 at a time. Pretty annoying.

 

[HOOats]

I feel like Cozens was just starting to get it together when he got clocked. I could be wrong though.

I don't think you're wrong. He was showing slight signs of life after being one of the worst players on the team in October. He looks pretty much the same to me pre-bubble and bubble. Very rough hands, speed down, zero confidence.

 

[TageGod]

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics - Teams

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics for teams including skating speed, skating distance, shot speed, shot location, and zone time.

edge.nhl.com

According to the NHL we're one of the slowest teams in the league.

NHL edge is the NHL's bio-metrics stats site. It's a pretty rough layout and you can't look at all 32 teams at once, it's top 10 or 1 at a time. Pretty annoying.

Odd, plenty of fast players. Maybe just style of play? Teams play Buffalo to limit their speed as well. Okposo may be dragging our stats down too he is molasses

 

[Chainshot]

Odd, plenty of fast players. Maybe just style of play? Teams play Buffalo to limit their speed as well. Okposo may be dragging our stats down too he is molasses

Skinner, in terms of player with possession going slowly, is the bigger drag on the team average.

 

[BFLO]

Odd, plenty of fast players. Maybe just style of play? Teams play Buffalo to limit their speed as well. Okposo may be dragging our stats down too he is molasses

Yeah, as Chainshot mentioned. It's Skinner. He might be the slowest 1st line forward in the league. He has a low top end speed and he has a low # of speed bursts

Slow: Skinner, Benson, Jost

Average: Greenway, Krebs, Okposo(his top end speed is still fine, it's the short distance quickness/acceleration and reaction time that has passed him by), Olofsson(average top end speed, extremely low# of bursts), Peterka (average top end speed, extremely high # of bursts)

almost fast: Cozens

Fast: Tage, Girgs, Tuch, Mitts(high top speed, below average # of speed bursts)


I'd do the defense too, but NHL Edge is really tedious to use. Would be nice to just have it in a spread sheet like natural stat trick

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah, as Chainshot mentioned. It's Skinner. He might be the slowest 1st line forward in the league. He has a low top end speed and he has a low # of speed bursts

Slow: Skinner, Benson, Jost

Average: Greenway, Krebs, Okposo(his top end speed is still fine, it's the short distance quickness/acceleration and reaction time that has passed him by), Olofsson(average top end speed, extremely low# of bursts), Peterka (average top end speed, extremely high # of bursts)

almost fast: Cozens

Fast: Tage, Girgs, Tuch, Mitts(high top speed, below average # of speed bursts)


I'd do the defense too, but NHL Edge is really tedious to use. Would be nice to just have it in a spread sheet like natural stat trick

Appreciate you mining that all out though.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Odd, plenty of fast players. Maybe just style of play? Teams play Buffalo to limit their speed as well. Okposo may be dragging our stats down too he is molasses

Do the young players look fast to you this season? They sure don't to me.

And Okposo doesn't get enough ice time to drag the whole team down, as much as you seem pin everything on him.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Yeah, as Chainshot mentioned. It's Skinner. He might be the slowest 1st line forward in the league. He has a low top end speed and he has a low # of speed bursts

Slow: Skinner, Benson, Jost

Average: Greenway, Krebs, Okposo(his top end speed is still fine, it's the short distance quickness/acceleration and reaction time that has passed him by), Olofsson(average top end speed, extremely low# of bursts), Peterka (average top end speed, extremely high # of bursts)

almost fast: Cozens

Fast: Tage, Girgs, Tuch, Mitts(high top speed, below average # of speed bursts)


I'd do the defense too, but NHL Edge is really tedious to use. Would be nice to just have it in a spread sheet like natural stat trick

The last few game threads had a bunch of people criticizing Girgs for being super slow...interesting how this shows the opposite.

I guess this means Tuch's injury issues are related to the top half of his body because he's still zipping around with the best of them this year. He looked slow to me at the start but that was either an illusion or he's corrected.

The one thing we aren't horrible at: mid-range shots.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Congrats, folks: The Buffalo Sabres lead the lead in "time spent in neutral zone during the power play."

No one comes close!!

 

[BFLO]

The last few game threads had a bunch of people criticizing Girgs for being super slow...interesting how this shows the opposite.

I guess this means Tuch's injury issues are related to the top half of his body because he's still zipping around with the best of them this year. He looked slow to me at the start but that was either an illusion or he's corrected.

The one thing we aren't horrible at: mid-range shots.

Tuch is actually a lot slower than last year. I think the LBI he started the season with is still affecting him quite a bit.

 

[Fezzy126]

Yeah, as Chainshot mentioned. It's Skinner. He might be the slowest 1st line forward in the league. He has a low top end speed and he has a low # of speed bursts

Slow: Skinner, Benson, Jost

Average: Greenway, Krebs, Okposo(his top end speed is still fine, it's the short distance quickness/acceleration and reaction time that has passed him by), Olofsson(average top end speed, extremely low# of bursts), Peterka (average top end speed, extremely high # of bursts)

almost fast: Cozens

Fast: Tage, Girgs, Tuch, Mitts(high top speed, below average # of speed bursts)


I'd do the defense too, but NHL Edge is really tedious to use. Would be nice to just have it in a spread sheet like natural stat trick

I just can't get my head around any kind of speed analysis that puts Peterka in the same group as okposo

 

[HaNotsri]

I just can't get my head around any kind of speed analysis that puts Peterka in the same group as okposo

Looks like they had reverse metrics top speed vs. speed bursts or maybe the poster should have placed Peterka in the tier above based on his bursts.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I just can't get my head around any kind of speed analysis that puts Peterka in the same group as okposo

You’ve been reading too much anti-Okposo commentary on here.

 

[BFLO]

Looks like they had reverse metrics top speed vs. speed bursts or maybe the poster should have placed Peterka in the tier above based on his bursts.

I grouped the players by their top end speed, and commented on players with above or below average # of bursts.

Okposo is in the 50th percentile in terms of top end speed. Jjp 53rd percentile.

Okposo is slightly above average at # bursts 57th and 64th percentile.

JJP near the top of the league at 95 and 97th percentile.

So JJP goes fast a lot more frequently than Okposo, but they top out at almost the same speed.

Okposo

JJP

 

[BFLO]

You’ve been reading too much anti-Okposo commentary on here.

Acceleration is not being measured here.

Okposo is visibly behind on lots of plays because of his poor acceleration, not because he has poor top end speed.

I think it’s important not to conflate the two.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Acceleration is not being measured here.

Okposo is visibly behind on lots of plays because of his poor acceleration, not because he has poor top end speed.

I think it’s important not to conflate the two.

Looks to me to be the opposite - doesn’t “bursts” equal acceleration? They kinda mean the same thing.

 

[joshjull]

Looks to me to be the opposite - doesn’t “bursts” equal acceleration? They kinda mean the same thing.

The way burst is measured on there ………..

Max speed measures the maximum sustained skating speed a player has achieved during the current season. Bursts measure the number of times a skater achieved a sustained speed above a given threshold. Results divided by positions groups (forwards, defensemen).

Speed Bursts

Once a player sustains a speed over 18 MPH, he is in a burst. That burst continues until his speed drops below 16 MPH. The speed associated with each burst is the maximum speed the player reaches during that window.

Those are two definitions I’ve seen.

Even if it takes a bit longer for KO to do so, he can still hit the speeds they’re using as a benchmark.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Odd, plenty of fast players. Maybe just style of play? Teams play Buffalo to limit their speed as well. Okposo may be dragging our stats down too he is molasses

If that was the case Tavares should be dragging Toronto down dead last, have you seen that guy skate? At least his skill and pedigree can still carry him.

 

[debaser66]

Yeah, as Chainshot mentioned. It's Skinner. He might be the slowest 1st line forward in the league. He has a low top end speed and he has a low # of speed bursts

Slow: Skinner, Benson, Jost

Average: Greenway, Krebs, Okposo(his top end speed is still fine, it's the short distance quickness/acceleration and reaction time that has passed him by), Olofsson(average top end speed, extremely low# of bursts), Peterka (average top end speed, extremely high # of bursts)

almost fast: Cozens

Fast: Tage, Girgs, Tuch, Mitts(high top speed, below average # of speed bursts)


I'd do the defense too, but NHL Edge is really tedious to use. Would be nice to just have it in a spread sheet like natural stat trick

did you maybe take a look into last years numbers? Did we just appear to be a fast team?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The way burst is measured on there ………..

Max speed measures the maximum sustained skating speed a player has achieved during the current season. Bursts measure the number of times a skater achieved a sustained speed above a given threshold. Results divided by positions groups (forwards, defensemen).

Speed Bursts

Once a player sustains a speed over 18 MPH, he is in a burst. That burst continues until his speed drops below 16 MPH. The speed associated with each burst is the maximum speed the player reaches during that window.

Those are two definitions I’ve seen.

Even if it takes a bit longer for KO to do so, he can still hit the speeds they’re using as a benchmark.

Okay, so that's definitely not acceleration. "Burst" is the wrong word to use since it's defined by its suddenness. Their definition is about sustaining speed, which has nothing to do with suddenness. But good to know what these terms mean because I was way off.

 

[BFLO]

did you maybe take a look into last years numbers? Did we just appear to be a fast team?

I only looked at Tuch's stats last year. His top end speed was 2mph faster back then. Which is a huge, huge difference. It's actually why I lumped him into the fast group, his top end speed has only been average this season, but once healthy he's our fastest skater.

The NHL Edge website is quite tedious or I would dive deeper. It also only shows "below 50th percentile" once you get below 50. It's like the NHL is embarrassed to share more information about below average players. They also probably want us to pay for access in the future.

Just give me a spread sheet instead of having to compare individual players/teams pages. Also the compare feature is garbage too as it's only 1 to 1. Just let me look at the whole league, and all of the players at once.

Okay, so that's definitely not acceleration. "Burst" is the wrong word to use since it's defined by its suddenness. Their definition is about sustaining speed, which has nothing to do with suddenness. But good to know what these terms mean because I was way off.

Yeah, they should just use words "frequency of achieving speed x" rather than "# of bursts at x"

 

[old kummelweck]

Is anyone else as frustrated as me with the structural breakouts? I can't tell you how many times they had to work ridiculously below their own goal line, only to have to make a near three-line stretch pass with the only reward being a 2-on-2 where because they were so hemmed in, they had to tip-in and change. I despise the stretch pass with all my being. Especially when the reward is an evenly-manned situation that nets them nothing.

Sabres have all those puck-carriers, yet the constantly look to break out of the dzone by a long pass.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The NHL Edge website is quite tedious or I would dive deeper. It also only shows "below 50th percentile" once you get below 50. It's like the NHL is embarrassed to share more information about below average players. They also probably want us to pay for access in the future.

Just give me a spread sheet instead of having to compare individual players/teams pages. Also the compare feature is garbage too as it's only 1 to 1. Just let me look at the whole league, and all of the players at once.

Good points. They also really need to add transition info since I feel that's needed to tie it all together.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Sabres have all those puck-carriers, yet the constantly look to break out of the dzone by a long pass.

The whole system is based on passing through the NZ, and those short passes aren't there a lot of the time. It's a problem, I agree!

Dahlin and Cozens are the only ones who seem to be given permission to carry it in, and I don't think the top 6 is encouraged to dump it in because we rarely see that.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I think most of everyone here agrees with this, the performance against the Hawks was unacceptable but they found a way to win and temporarily stop the bleeding which is a small positive.

I want to see the Sabres that beat Colorado, why did we get that team for one game out of the 20 we have played?

Colorado has been having its ups and downs too.

I suspect they took the Sabres very lightly and received an butt kicking as a result.

We'll see a different game in December here.