The Flyers are an incongruent Franchise.

[deadhead]

They're not making decisions that NAK will spend his career on the 4th line.
They're just making the rational decision that right now he's not good enough for a top 9 role.
So he'll have to start like Laughton, prove himself on the 4th line, and like Raffl, when the opportunity comes to move up the food chain, seize it.

There's only a few prospects good enough to play in the top 9 or top 6 at 20-21 years old on any team.
Sometimes a player comes out of LF and takes a job, but most of the time they work their way up as they improve different aspects of their game.

I watch the Phantoms the other night, no one jumped out as an elite talent, rather, some solid prospects who given time could develop into solid NHL forwards.
On the other hand, if Frost keeps developing and fills out enough to handle the NHL, he could be in the lineup in two years.
If the Flyers continue to struggle, they'll draft someone in the top 10 who could also make the jump within two years.
Someone like Rubtsov or Allison, after a year in the AHL might be able to fill a top 9 role.

NAK isn't as talented as these guys, so they want to marinate him and bring him along slower.
Doesn't mean they've given up on him, but if he wants to be more than a checker, he has to show those skills, first in the AHL, then on a checking line.
Checkers play 8 minutes a night at ES, 2nd line about 12-13 minutes, so there's plenty of time to prove you deserve to move up from the 4th line.

 

[FLYguy3911]

NAK isn't as talented as these guys

Sure but those guys aren't here yet which makes it a missed opportunity. NAK is a lot more talented than Leier for example, and Leier got ample top line and PP time even though it was very unlikely that he would be filling those roles in the NHL. If nothing else playing him on the PP inflates his numbers and makes him more attractive in a potential deal which is where the discussion started. A 21-year old putting up .80 PPG certainly is going to be more appealing than the one putting up .50 PPG

It's one thing for a prospect to get bumped by other prospects. It's another thing for a prospect to get bumped by guys like McDonald, Varone, Conner, etc.

 

[Rebels57]

Sure but those guys aren't here yet which makes it a missed opportunity. NAK is a lot more talented than Leier for example, and Leier got ample top line and PP time even though it was very unlikely that he would be filling those roles in the NHL. If nothing else playing him on the PP inflates his numbers and makes him more attractive in a potential deal which is where the discussion started. A 21-year old putting up .80 PPG certainly is going to be more appealing than the one putting up .50 PPG

It's one thing for a prospect to get bumped by other prospects. It's another thing for a prospect to get bumped by guys like McDonald, Varone, Conner, etc.

They baby prospects even in the minors...which only exists for prospect development. Makes no sense!

Until this changes it doesn't matter how well Hextall drafts because he isn't going to get the most out of most of his picks. Then you have to honestly ask yourself, would it make more sense to just trade some of these mid round picks for youngish affordable veterans (like the Palmieri and Johansson trades by NJ for example) that were able to develop properly elsewhere?

 

[deadhead]

Every good team babies prospects.
There is no one on the AHL team who is an elite prospect, NAK was the only high draft pick, Morin is a long-term project, the rest were late round picks or UDFAs.
So why would they rush these guys?
When they're ready it will be obvious.
You can see watching them that no one (the D-men were injured) was NHL ready in the sense of being a slam dunk right now.
They weren't heads and shoulders better than Read, who is sub-NHL level talent at this point.

Same with rushing players in junior, Frost is having a great year, but Hextall is not going to expose him to the NHL and some of those dirty hits next season unless he's convinced that Frost is physically ready for 82 games - it's not being babied, it's avoiding rushing players and getting them injured and maybe screwing up their career.

Patrick doesn't need to be playing 20 minutes a game right now, he's physically and mentally not ready to carry that kind of load.
When he is, it should be obvious, he should look like one of the top players on the ice that night.

 

[deadhead]

Sure but those guys aren't here yet which makes it a missed opportunity. NAK is a lot more talented than Leier for example, and Leier got ample top line and PP time even though it was very unlikely that he would be filling those roles in the NHL. If nothing else playing him on the PP inflates his numbers and makes him more attractive in a potential deal which is where the discussion started. A 21-year old putting up .80 PPG certainly is going to be more appealing than the one putting up .50 PPG

It's one thing for a prospect to get bumped by other prospects. It's another thing for a prospect to get bumped by guys like McDonald, Varone, Conner, etc.

Leier spent two and a half years in the AHL, NAK is just starting his second season, and show last year that he wasn't ready for NHL duty.
Given Leier's size, I'm sure they wanted to see what his offensive upside must be, he's not going to have a long career as a 4th line forechecker, but his speed and two way play would make him a top 9 candidate if he could score.

 

[FLYguy3911]

No. It had nothing to do with his size.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

4th liners are mostly guys who can’t score because no one has enough offensively-talented players, not because plugs have specific value.

Please, please, please stop saying you need X skills to play a Middle 6 role vs 4th line.

 

[deadhead]

If you have a group of prospects, you try to project their future roles, because obviously you want a balanced lineup.

With someone like Leier (or Cousins before him) you have a "tweener," too small for a checking role, maybe not good enough for a top 9 scoring role.
So you give him a chance to show offensive skills. If he doesn't show offensive skills, he has a limited future.

With NAK, you know he'll fit on a 4th line (like Laughton) and have value there, if he develops PK skills, he has more value.
At that point, you don't worry about his career trajectory because he's already worth keeping, if he improves his offensive skills he can move up the food chain as a solid two way winger, if he doesn't, he'll still have a role on the 4th line until someone beats him out.

With someone like Lindblom and Vorobyev, you know they have the skills to play on a top 9 line, you're just getting them some experience before you promote them.

With a Frost, Rubtsov, Allison, etc., when they hit the AHL you're grooming them for a potential top six role down the road.

 

[FLYguy3911]

With someone like Lindblom and Vorobyev, you know they have the skills to play on a top 9 line, you're just getting them some experience before you promote them.

Ironically NAK is outscoring both without PP time. He has more ES points than Lindblom and Vorobyev combined! So maybe he actually has a ceiling higher than a 4th liner. I’m not going to say he’s a better prospect than those 2 but he was a 2nd round pick after all. He has talent. I don’t get pigeonholing prospects.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I know it’s not the hockey culture at all, but if I was a Top ~50 or even ~100 player in my draft year and was drafted by a team with this sort of attitude, I would happily go the NCAA and UFA route. They’re killing careers before they start.

If I had a signature, it would be exactly what FLYguy just said — “I don’t get pigeonholing (prospects).” What’s the upside? Fealty?

 

[deadhead]

It's not pigeon holing, NAK will get to the Flyers faster if he's a 4th line candidate and has to beat out Leier/Lehtera/Weise than if he's a 3rd line candidate and has to beat out Martel/Weal/Lindblom/MV/Vorobyev.
It's not that he can't play the 3rd line, it's that his fastest route to the NHL is on the 4th line where his skill package fits better than some other prospects.
It's the same in any sport, get to the big leagues, then, once you're there you have a chance to impress the coaches.

You see this in the NFL all the time, make the team on STs, then win a job in practice and keep it by performing in games.
In the same way, get on the 4th line, play hard, make some plays, get a shot in the top 9 and deliver.

 

[FLYguy3911]

You don't believe what you just wrote do you? You were just preaching patience a couple posts ago. Now it's about the fastest route to the NHL?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

So why is playing on the 4th line different? That's the question without an answer. Be effective, get promoted. There’s no need to complicate it over preconceived notions about what players are allowed to do based on antiquated roles.

 

[deadhead]

There's no contradiction.

For NAK, a 4th line role is less demanding than a 3rd line role, and is a good fit with his skill package, speed and size (5'10 but 204 lbs).
So it's a faster route for him to the NHL, but one that allows him to develop over time instead of throwing him into the fire. Play like Raffl on the 4th line, and as you improve your shooting and passing, make some plays and catch the coach's eye (whomever that coach might be).

Lindblom might be able to play on a 4th line, but right now he doesn't look like a great skater, same with Vorobyev.
So they might be best served staying in the AHL and developing as 3rd line, two way forwards who use their all around skill package and compensate for lack of top speed with hockey IQ and positioning.

Different strokes for different folks (prospects).