THE Fire Torts Thread

[JacketsDavid]

I'll ask you people this, in the "Fire Torts" thread, who and what caused, and when did your expectations become so high for the CBJ? Serious question. "I'm fed up after 15 years and 10 thousand dollars!!" is not an acceptable answer.

Well after accumulating top draft pick after top draft pick for 12+ years I would expect us to be able to win a playoff series. You know something Las Vegas did in year one. Something every other team has done.
An average NHL team makes the playoffs in NHL (16 get in out of 31). So getting in every other year is expected for an average team.
After sucking for most of 13 seasons I would expect us to be further along and to have more long term pieces assembled. Right now 2 of our 3 best players are likely headed out of town after this season. Leaves us with Jones, Werenski, PLD and a bunch of other pieces.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Stick to perception, I will deal in reality.

No. You "create" a reality by ascribing your interpretations of individual posters' positions onto large groups of posters, then "refute" said position by merely stating the opposite and saying you've been right all along and claiming "victory." There's nothing "real" in posting that reads like you're reading a book on the 10 logical fallacies and then trying them out as you go.

Tone, schmone. Everyone brings their personality to the forum. That's what makes it interesting. What makes it uninteresting is insincerity. And what I mean by insincerity is things like asking a question and then prescribing what does and does not qualify as an answer.

 

[MoeBartoli]

I'm not sold on Q as a guy who would work here. I know he's won 3 Cups but is any good at developing young players? Kane & Toews probably didn't need much development. Saad seems to be struggling under Q. Debrincat seems to be doing ok. Duclair washed out. I'd be more inclined to look for a young up and coming assistant who can relate to the younger players.

Interesting you posted this. There's an old saying in horse racing " horses for courses". The phrase could be applied to coaches. Q is one of the great ones and his playoff success and Cup record demonstrate this. So what I'll say is likely similar heresy

It seems Q is best suited for a veteran team rather than one of the youngest teams in the league. And his style is really rarely described as one resembling to current NHL trend. Now if our plan is to package a handful of our younger players for vets, Q might may a solution. But with Bread and Bob likely packing their bags, I doubt if that's the plan.

I'm not saying he's not a good coach - heck, a great one - but is he the right horse for the course?

 

[Viqsi]

Leaves us with Jones, Werenski, PLD and a bunch of other pieces.

I'm as grumpy about the prospects of losing Panarin and Bob as anyone else, but frankly those are some pretty good pieces to have regardless. Granted, having them plus the guys being lost is still preferable, but...

 

[JacketsDavid]

I'm as grumpy about the prospects of losing Panarin and Bob as anyone else, but frankly those are some pretty good pieces to have regardless. Granted, having them plus the guys being lost is still preferable, but...

Guess my point is with those 3 where do we stack up vs the other NHL teams? Maybe my perception is way off but I don't think it puts us in top 15 teams. Granted I like our #1 d pairing but since our defensive system allows a ton of shots and we would be left with an unproven goalie and lack of goal scorers I just don't get excited.
At least now we have 5 very good pieces (a Vezina level goalie, a top 5 top pairing blue line, a legitimate point per game forward and really talented center who hopefully will be a legit top line player). THat core we can play with if they stayed together.
I understand not wanting to pay Bob (and I agree with it), but I get a bad feeling on where we could be next season.

 

[We Want Ten]

Quite literally every (important or heavily contested) claim and prediction I have made in the past 4 or so years has come to fruition.

Stick to perception, I will deal in reality.

Nice out you left yourself.

 

[major major]

Anderson has 7 goals, and everyone on the topline has 5 or more. Anthony Duclair already has 5 goals. There's only 76 players in the league with 5 or more goals, and we have 5 of them. There's only one other team that can match that, Calgary. 29 of 31 have less than 5.

Jackets are now the only team with 6 forwards with 5 or more goals.

--- I'll be sure to update this the next time someone comes up with the tired "we don't have enough top 6 players".

 

[Mayor Bee]

Is all of this in any way instructive to the team's current situation?

Possibly, but I don't see Mayor making that connection. Maybe it's intended, but it's not specified. I'm just seeking some context is all.

Baseball announcer Jerry Remy told a story about how, when he was playing Double-A ball in the California Angels' system, he was having a crisis of confidence as young players do. It's not uncommon for a young hotshot to assume that he's on a fast track to stardom, and then struggle when he realizes that he'll be playing Single-A for an entire year, and Double-A for an entire year, and what if he ends up playing another year there? These are years out of a potential Major League career being spent riding buses. And if I can't make it out of Double-A quickly, what's that say about the future?

So Remy was sitting there in the clubhouse, pondering his future and wondering if he would ever make it. And his manager in the minors comes up and asks, "Jerry, who's the Angels' second baseman right now?" Remy said, "Denny Doyle."

The manager asked, "Who hits better, you or Doyle?" Remy said, "I do."

The manager asked, "Who runs better, you or Doyle?" Remy said, "I do."

The manager asked, "Who fields better, you or Doyle?" Remy said, "I do."

The manager asked, "Then what the hell are you so worried about? If you do everything better than Doyle, you'll be in the majors soon enough. Just keep grinding."

As it turned out, Remy became the Angels' regular second baseman just a year later - after Doyle was traded to Boston, partially to make room for Remy.

So as it pertains to the current situation....

Everything started to turn around for this franchise when Richards took over, and the core pieces were brought in, and the young players were coming along.

But if:

- Tortorella is a better coach than Richards, and
- This front office is a better one than the preceding one, and
- The roster is in better shape overall

Then what the hell is everyone worried about? It's just a matter of time and work before the breakthrough comes.

 

[major major]

- Tortorella is a better coach than Richards, and
- This front office is a better one than the preceding one, and
- The roster is in better shape overall

It's a good story, but the questions about Howson and Richards that you obsess about aren't that relevant here. Is Tortorella better than Richards? I don't know. It just seems like he's starting to lose the room, as coaches tend to do. He could have been better than Richards at some point, or not, what matters is whether the team would play better under a new coach that is not either one of them.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Jackets are now the only team with 6 forwards with 5 or more goals.

--- I'll be sure to update this the next time someone comes up with the tired "we don't have enough top 6 players".

We're freaking loaded! I'm surprised any team in the NHL can keep the Jackets under 5 goals a game...
Panarin is likely wanting to leave because he knows our depth and knows he will likely be a 3rd line penalty killer by March

Seriously I don't see an abundance of top 6 players on this team. I know others do. Likely the same folks saying back in the day Nash is a franchise player, so I get it most fans overvalue their own players. Panarin, PLD and Cam are guys who could play on about any other top 6. The others in many cases wouldn't be IMO.

 

[major major]

We're freaking loaded! I'm surprised any team in the NHL can keep the Jackets under 5 goals a game...
Panarin is likely wanting to leave because he knows our depth and knows he will likely be a 3rd line penalty killer by March

Seriously I don't see an abundance of top 6 players on this team. I know others do. Likely the same folks saying back in the day Nash is a franchise player, so I get it most fans overvalue their own players. Panarin, PLD and Cam are guys who could play on about any other top 6. The others in many cases wouldn't be IMO.

I'm sure there are teams' top 6 out there that Foligno, Anderson, or Duclair couldn't crack. Hell, technically they're not all in our top 6. But those three guys just happened to have scored more goals than the 4, 5, 6 guys on every single one of those other teams. So you're basically saying our top 6 scorers would be better off if we replaced some of them with players that have scored fewer goals. Not very persuasive.

 

[EspenK]

I'm sure there are teams' top 6 out there that Foligno, Anderson, or Duclair couldn't crack. Hell, technically they're not all in our top 6. But those three guys just happened to have scored more goals than the 4, 5, 6 guys on every single one of those other teams. So you're basically saying our top 6 scorers would be better off if we replaced some of them with players that have scored fewer goals. Not very persuasive.

Part of the issue is that all three of these guys are streaky and in Foligno's case bi-seasonal. If they all could consistently produce around 25 g's a season your case for them would be a lot stronger. So far this year so good.

 

[major major]

Part of the issue is that all three of these guys are streaky and in Foligno's case bi-seasonal. If they all could consistently produce around 25 g's a season your case for them would be a lot stronger. So far this year so good.

Yes, all I'm really saying is so far so good. Six 25 goal scorers would be insane, I can't remember the last time a team did that.

 

[EspenK]

Yes, all I'm really saying is so far so good. Six 25 goal scorers would be insane, I can't remember the last time a team did that.

Seems to me when Umberger was still a Flyer they had 6 (maybe 8) guys with at least 20 or more. That is the most I remember.

 

[major major]

Seems to me when Umberger was still a Flyer they had 6 (maybe 8) guys with at least 20 or more. That is the most I remember.

They had 6 with 20, 4 with 25.

 

[major major]

They had 6 with 20, 4 with 25.

The Sabres of that era also pulled that off a couple times.

The highest scoring team of recent memory is probably the 2009-10 Caps. They had 7 forwards with 20 goals, 5 with 25.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Petition to rename this the "THE what's going on with Torts?" thread.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Petition to rename this the "THE what's going on with Torts?" thread.

All caps for THE?

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

All caps for THE?

Yes, I wouldn't want it to be confused with lesser "what's going on with Torts" threads, which I believe are all other threads.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Yes,

Then no.

 

[Viqsi]

Then no.

I wish to state my most vociferous objections to this decision for the record.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

His job is safe...until next game

 

[Monk]

His job is safe...until next game

For him, the job is the game.

 

[We Want Ten]

Everytime this thread gains popularity, the team starts to heat up.

We apparently wield enormous power.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I wish to state my most vociferous objections to this decision for the record.

Noted in every official record I keep.