The (De)evolution of the Defense

[MoeBartoli]

With the departures of key back-end guys like Savard and Jones, Jarmo has worked to rebuild the group. In looking at those efforts, it’s not a pretty picture. Here’s some of the moves made by Jarmo:
—Traded the Jones 2nd for Jake Bean
—Obtained Adam Boqvist in the Jones trade
—Signed Eric Gudbranson to a $4x4 contract
—Extended Andrew Peeke with a $2.75x3 deal
Basically he secured 4 players who are untradable and struggle to play a bottom 6 pairing (though maybe brings some, though minimal, value).

This year in an attempt to leap forward into the playoffs he signed Damon Severson to an 8yr deal that I questioned at the time and just plain hate now. He also adde Ivan Provorov who has been the lone “win” for Jarmo. I’ll forego comment on letting Gavrikov walk (to be replaced by Severson).

One could rightfully argue this group is better than last year’s defensive corps which included such stalwarts as Berni, Bjork, Christiansen, Sweeney, and Bayreuther but that’s akin to being excited because the team exceeds the Lars Bar.

What does seem promising are the young draftees such as Jiricek, Mateychuk, and Svozil As well as FA signing Blankenburg. Maybe - just maybe - we can get two or three wins from this group.

Beyond the hope behind these picks, I think Jarmo has totally botched this attempted overall. We spend a lot of thread time kvetching on the forwards and line combos, but this is a major concern for me. Am I being too pessimistic? Your thoughts?

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[Napoli]

I agree and have voiced these concerns elsewhere. There aren't many guys actually good at defense. We have not replaced Savard or Jones adequately and I'm not sure the draftees are of that ilk either.

Jiriceks defense doesn't impress me, he really should be developing in the AHL imo. Severson and Werenski don't defend well enough to be the top 2 guys and Provorov is better but not by a lot.

Jarmo has completely failed. Even if we have promising d prospects, none of them are known for defense first.

 

[VT]

With the departures of key back-end guys like Savard and Jones, Jarmo has worked to rebuild the group. In looking at those efforts, it’s not a pretty picture. Here’s some of the moves made by Jarmo:
—Traded the Jones 2nd for Jake Bean
—Obtained Adam Boqvist in the Jones trade
—Signed Eric Gudbranson to a $4x4 contract
—Extended Andrew Peeke with a $2.75x3 deal
Basically he secured 4 players who are untradable and struggle to play a bottom 6 pairing (though maybe brings some, though minimal, value).

This year in an attempt to leap forward into the playoffs he signed Damon Severson to an 8yr deal that I questioned at the time and just plain hate now. He also adde Ivan Provorov who has been the lone “win” for Jarmo. I’ll forego comment on letting Gavrikov walk (to be replaced by Severson).

One could rightfully argue this group is better than last year’s defensive corps which included such stalwarts as Berni, Bjork, Christiansen, Sweeney, and Bayreuther but that’s akin to being excited because the team exceeds the Lars Bar.

What does seem promising are the young draftees such as Jiricek, Mateychuk, and Svozil As well as FA signing Blankenburg. Maybe - just maybe - we can get two or three wins from this group.

Beyond the hope behind these picks, I think Jarmo has totally botched this attempted overall. We spend a lot of thread time kvetching on the forwards and line combos, but this is a major concern for me. Am I being too pessimistic? Your thoughts?

Jones wanted to leave, and he was the one picking the teams. Jarmo's hands were "tied." Therefore, in this case, I would not criticize him. Besides, who could have predicted that Boqvist and Bean would be injured so often. And let's not forget that we got Jiříček, because of the draft spot for Seth.
So in our case draft picks and UFA are more important. And this is where the problem arises. We have to overpay players.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Jones wanted to leave, and he was the one picking the teams. Jarmo's hands were "tied." Therefore, in this case, I would not criticize him. Besides, who could have predicted that Boqvist and Bean would be injured so often. And let's not forget that we got Jiříček, because of the draft spot for Seth.

honestly, just getting jiricek + sillinger for the privilege of not having to pay jones $9.5m/year well into his 30s is a win.

individually, bean and boqvist were perfectly fine targets. but having both on the roster at the same time made it harder for either of them to succeed individually.

i do wonder what it would've taken to get dach instead of boqvist. i assume it would've been more than just the 2nd rounder they flipped for bean. but in hindsight, that would've been REALLY nice.

 

[JacketsDavid]

it seems to me they tried to copy Vegas and shifted to dmen who could move the puck. Both Bean and Boquist were seen as more offensive upside guys (def more than Savard).
Issue was if you had dmen who didn't play defense very well and put them in a system where no one cared about defense and the goal wasn't very good at stopping pucks that there may be a problem.

Gudbranson I partially understood. We had a need for toughness. But contract was terrible (too long and too much) and everyone knew he was a 3rd pairing dman. Right player (IMO) but wrong term and dollars.

 

[Cheddarcheese]

Jiricek needs to be in the A working on getting faster...

why are we giving up on Boquist tho ? ( he's only 23 )


Gudbranson isnt that bad of a signing 4x4. its not great but you could easily trade to a bottom feeder two years from now with a draft pick.. ( just looks bad when your the bottom feeder haha )

 

[cbjthrowaway]

it seems to me they tried to copy Vegas and shifted to dmen who could move the puck. Both Bean and Boquist were seen as more offensive upside guys (def more than Savard).
Issue was if you had dmen who didn't play defense very well and put them in a system where no one cared about defense and the goal wasn't very good at stopping pucks that there may be a problem.

tbf vegas (both in their early days and now) had a lot of big shutdown guys. nick holden, alec martinez, nic hague, etc. pietrangelo and theodore are both very capable puck-movers, but i'd call them two-way guys more than offensive.

i do think a team can build a d-core around offensive-focused guys, but they need really good forwards in order to support that. otherwise you're a team that never has the puck playing defensemen who need the puck to be good.

Gudbranson I partially understood. We had a need for toughness. But contract was terrible (too long and too much) and everyone knew he was a 3rd pairing dman. Right player (IMO) but wrong term and dollars.

he has pretty much been our best defenseman so far this season. i don't mind the contract on its own – but signing that deal and then insisting on getting a meaningful return for peeke is dumb.

gudbranson is a straightforward upgrade over peeke.

why are we giving up on Boquist tho ? ( he's only 23 )

i think a smart team will scoop him up for peanuts and give him PP1 time and a strong partner in sheltered deployment, and he'll have a big breakout.

maybe at this point the best case for him is being a gostisbehere type pp merchant but there's nothing wrong with that outcome. really dumb that the jackets refuse to give him that role when he's in the lineup, but they have too many RHD, so

 

[Cheddarcheese]

are we really trying to trade bovist and peeke tho ? normally you try and showcase them ?? maybe were trying to get rid of bean and prov ?

 

[Xoggz22]

With the departures of key back-end guys like Savard and Jones, Jarmo has worked to rebuild the group. In looking at those efforts, it’s not a pretty picture. Here’s some of the moves made by Jarmo:
—Traded the Jones 2nd for Jake Bean
—Obtained Adam Boqvist in the Jones trade
—Signed Eric Gudbranson to a $4x4 contract
—Extended Andrew Peeke with a $2.75x3 deal
Basically he secured 4 players who are untradable and struggle to play a bottom 6 pairing (though maybe brings some, though minimal, value).

This year in an attempt to leap forward into the playoffs he signed Damon Severson to an 8yr deal that I questioned at the time and just plain hate now. He also adde Ivan Provorov who has been the lone “win” for Jarmo. I’ll forego comment on letting Gavrikov walk (to be replaced by Severson).

One could rightfully argue this group is better than last year’s defensive corps which included such stalwarts as Berni, Bjork, Christiansen, Sweeney, and Bayreuther but that’s akin to being excited because the team exceeds the Lars Bar.

What does seem promising are the young draftees such as Jiricek, Mateychuk, and Svozil As well as FA signing Blankenburg. Maybe - just maybe - we can get two or three wins from this group.

Beyond the hope behind these picks, I think Jarmo has totally botched this attempted overall. We spend a lot of thread time kvetching on the forwards and line combos, but this is a major concern for me. Am I being too pessimistic? Your thoughts?

What's funny is that Bean and Gudbranson have largely been the top two defensemen on this team this year. Bean started well last year and suffered the injury. He's not all world but for a 2nd rounder I don't personally have issue with him. Boqvist needs to be in a lineup that also has Savard and Gavrikov type players. That aint this one. He should have spent time in the AHL but his offensive skill (I still think he would be the best PP QB on this team) is very high end. Just isn't really a 2-way guy.

I won't argue that something isn't working but the 4 you initially chose in your post are all bottom pair guys and the impact of having Boqvist and PEeke in the press box isn't hurting this team - not saying they are good decisions, especially the Peeke extension. Seems a bit of a stretch.

 

[majormajor]

We've had a lot of justifiable comments that our backend is short on playkillers - that is guys who can shutdown a cycle with force like Savard used to.

One point I haven't seen yet is that David Jiricek profiles as a good playkiller someday. If you look at him vs juniors he is a beast, just as good as Sam Dickinson or whoever else is the best playkiller in the 2024 draft. The problem is that he is 19 and not even close to filled out yet, and probably shouldn't even be in the NHL yet.

He does have a problem in rush defense that probably never fully goes away, but as an in zone defender I think we've got a great one coming.

i think a smart team will scoop him up for peanuts and give him PP1 time and a strong partner in sheltered deployment, and he'll have a big breakout.

maybe at this point the best case for him is being a gostisbehere type pp merchant but there's nothing wrong with that outcome. really dumb that the jackets refuse to give him that role when he's in the lineup, but they have too many RHD, so

In my opinion Boqvist is like a step below a Tyson Barrie, who was given away last year, and a couple steps below Gostisbehere, who was also given away last year. Playoff teams shy away from that player type, and within that player type a guy like Gostisbehere is a cut above. I watch him and I see him doing things that Boqvist can't do. Boqvist has a very limited arsenal.

 

[koteka]

One point I haven't seen yet is that David Jiricek profiles as a good playkiller someday. If you look at him vs juniors he is a beast, just as good as Sam Dickinson or whoever else is the best playkiller in the 2024 draft. The problem is that he is 19 and not even close to filled out yet, and probably shouldn't even be in the NHL yet.

He does have a problem in rush defense that probably never fully goes away, but as an in zone defender I think we've got a great one coming.

I don’t trust the current regime to develop him into a defensive force. He should be in Cleveland learning how to play defense at a high level.

 

[majormajor]

I don’t trust the current regime to develop him into a defensive force. He should be in Cleveland learning how to play defense at a high level.

I'm more concerned about rushing him cutting short his offensive potential. Defense is more algorithmic.

 

[EspenK]

I'm more concerned about rushing him cutting short his offensive potential. Defense is more algorithmic.

For us without advanced degrees wtf do you mean ?

 

[Xoggz22]

For us without advanced degrees wtf do you mean ?

Think of it like All Go but with Rhythm. he needs to keep a beat first

 

[stevo61]

Feels like this has been ongoing throughout their history minus a small stretch where we had a fantastic group. Sucks that not long ago we could ice Werenski-Jones Gavrikov-Savard Murray-Nutivaara.

I personally love our prospects but we need to insulate them like NJ for example. I dont mind having less than perfect deals like Gudbranson for instance to give the kids time. Severson however is a weird one, he'll look better when the kids push him down but hes not really a guy you give 8 years to. Jiricek should be in Celeveland just like NJ is keeping Nemec there, we dont have to rush kids because of their draft position, especially on defense.

I love Provorov and that deal so I wont hate on that one at all. Im curious to see what happens there. Boqvist signing was premature but was a worthy gamble at the time of the trade and the main return of the 2 1sts was still the main part of that return highlighted by the eventual Jiricek selection. Peeke is bad but I wouldnt be surprised if there were offers and Jarmo thought either he could get better offers or Peeke would improve, neither happened and now we are stuck with a bad contract

 

[ViD]

We have 2 d men in top 3 scoring leaders this season

 

[stevo61]

We have 2 d men in top 3 scoring leaders this season

How's it going on the defensive end for the 9.5million dollar man?

 

[ViD]

How's it going on the defensive end for the 9.5million dollar man?

Not too great, but hey, if our forwards can’t score, gotta get the offense where we can

 

[stevo61]

Not too great, but hey, if our forwards can’t score, gotta get the offense where we can

On the PP hes actually holding our forwards back considerably

 

[CBJx614]

We desperately need another stay at home type on the blue line. I don't even mean a big bruiser type, someone who can be trusted to make the right play in his own zone and can be reliably counted on for PK and Dzone starts.

Provorov and Z can play that way, but don't/won't and are good but not great at it.

Jiricek hopefully will be able to one day(from his sheer size alone should be able to prevent a lot of plays by breaking them up with his stick)

Bean - no
Severson - no
Boqvist - no
Peeke - no

That leaves just Gudbranson... This team could really use a guy like Savard or Gavrikov in their primes right now.

 

[majormajor]

For us without advanced degrees wtf do you mean ?

Defense is algorithmic, so sort of like following instructions in a cookbook.

Defense is not creative.

 

[JacketsDavid]

he has pretty much been our best defenseman so far this season. i don't mind the contract on its own – but signing that deal and then insisting on getting a meaningful return for peeke is dumb.

gudbranson is a straightforward upgrade over peeke.

In other words Gudbranson is the tallest midget.