Player Discussion The Bad Granlund Phenomenon Part 4 (mod warning post #393)

[sting101]

Not sure why you’d assume this was a result of “doing their homework” when one of the main traits of this management group - at that time especially - was that they didn’t seem to ever do any homework on anything.

it's incredibly naive to think that they don't have meetings to discuss player personnel moves.

i know JB comes off as a big dummy and everyone seems to think he just sits back in his office fielding calls and making decisions without consultation with the management group and scouts but there is no way in hell he acts like that. Especially concerning a 1st rounder in their organization.....these are major decisions affecting their future employment.

 

[RobertKron]

it's incredibly naive to think that they don't have meetings to discuss player personnel moves.

i know JB comes off as a big dummy and everyone seems to think he just sits back in his office fielding calls and making decisions without consultation with the management group and scouts but there is no way in hell he acts like that. Especially concerning a 1st rounder in their organization.....these are major decisions affecting their future employment.

What I’m saying is that around that period, this group had to have the NHL explain to them how to make a contract, how to get under the cap/roster limit/I forget exactly what rudimentary thing, they got slapped for tampering, and that same “homework” saw them target guys like Clendening, Etem, Macmillan, Vey, Bartkowski, and, yes, Granlund and Baertschi.

If you look at the larger sum of what was going on at the time, was this some kind of brilliant insight brought by savvy behind the scenes work, or did they just have a guy happen to pan out well? It’s not like they, by even their own admission, entered into trading Shinkaruk looking for Granlund.

 

[MS]

What I’m saying is that around that period, this group had to have the NHL explain to them how to make a contract, how to get under the cap/roster limit/I forget exactly what rudimentary thing, they got slapped for tampering, and that same “homework” saw them target guys like Clendening, Etem, Macmillan, Vey, Bartkowski, and, yes, Granlund and Baertschi.

If you look at the larger sum of what was going on at the time, was this some kind of brilliant insight brought by savvy behind the scenes work, or did they just have a guy happen to pan out well? It’s not like they, by even their own admission, entered into trading Shinkaruk looking for Granlund.

Yeah, this is the thing and I've said this countless times.

What this regime does is bet on low-probability outcomes. Over and over and over again. And the thing about low-probability outcomes is that sometimes chance means that low-probability outcome will hit. And that doesn't mean they actually knew what they were doing - it just means that a broken clock is right twice a day.

If they make 5 or 6 bad moves in a year that have a low probability of success, absolutely one of those will probably turn out OK. It still wasn't a good move in theory and the bigger picture is horrendous but yeah in a vacuum in hindsight it looks alright.

Granlund was one of these moves. Ryan Miller surprisingly performing better at age 37 than age 35 would be another. But the process is so consistently atrocious that it's impossible to give any benefit of the doubt when it happens.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

 

[DL44]

What I’m saying is that around that period, this group had to have the NHL explain to them how to make a contract, how to get under the cap/roster limit/I forget exactly what rudimentary thing, they got slapped for tampering, and that same “homework” saw them target guys like Clendening, Etem, Macmillan, Vey, Bartkowski, and, yes, Granlund and Baertschi.

If you look at the larger sum of what was going on at the time, was this some kind of brilliant insight brought by savvy behind the scenes work, or did they just have a guy happen to pan out well? It’s not like they, by even their own admission, entered into trading Shinkaruk looking for Granlund.

Let's just hope he derps himself into a couple more of those wins...

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

He had an outstanding game last night. He's developing nicely. Great trade

 

[y2kcanucks]

2 goals and 3 points in 11 games this season despite leading our forwards in ice-time. Basically he's doing what I said he'd be doing. Not surprised by this at all. Also not surprised that a lot of people who loved Granlund last year seemingly ignore this fact.

11 games, 2 goals, SH% of 11.7%, xG 1.6, CF% 47%.

But sure, pipe the narrative that he's been great.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

He had an outstanding game last night. He's developing nicely. Great trade

he was a demon on the forecheck and the backcheck as well as on the boards. played a great shut down game.

2 goals and 3 points in 11 games this season despite leading our forwards in ice-time. Basically he's doing what I said he'd be doing. Not surprised by this at all. Also not surprised that a lot of people who loved Granlund last year seemingly ignore this fact.

11 games, 2 goals, SH% of 11.7%, xG 1.6, CF% 47%.

But sure, pipe the narrative that he's been great.

if his job was to be a scoring player, then you are right.

however he is doing other jobs quite well, including playing on a what was an extremely effective shutdown line and PK last night. The big Benn line barely had any chances, considering how dominant they can be.

i was impressed, at least last night vs DAL.

 

[y2kcanucks]

he was a demon on the forecheck and the backcheck as well as on the boards. played a great shut down game.



if his job was to be a scoring player, then you are right.

however he is doing other jobs quite well, including playing on a what was an extremely effective shutdown line and PK last night. The big Benn line barely had any chances, considering how dominant they can be.

i was impressed, at least last night vs DAL.

And that would be fine if he were receiving 15 minutes per game. But he's our leader in ice-time so I would expect a bit more than a 22 point/82 game pace. He's also seeing some PP time, though thankfully not much.

As a 3rd/4th liner I can see use for him. As a 1st liner absolutely not.

 

[elwin316]

he was a demon on the forecheck and the backcheck as well as on the boards. played a great shut down game.



if his job was to be a scoring player, then you are right.

however he is doing other jobs quite well, including playing on a what was an extremely effective shutdown line and PK last night. The big Benn line barely had any chances, considering how dominant they can be.

i was impressed, at least last night vs DAL.

Agreed, for $900K he's holding up his end of the bargain.

 

[Shareefruck]

Definitely exceeding all my expectations and drastically improved over last year.

 

[rune74]

And that would be fine if he were receiving 15 minutes per game. But he's our leader in ice-time so I would expect a bit more than a 22 point/82 game pace. He's also seeing some PP time, though thankfully not much.

As a 3rd/4th liner I can see use for him. As a 1st liner absolutely not.

Weird how you ignore who they have him playing with.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

And that would be fine if he were receiving 15 minutes per game. But he's our leader in ice-time so I would expect a bit more than a 22 point/82 game pace. He's also seeing some PP time, though thankfully not much.

As a 3rd/4th liner I can see use for him. As a 1st liner absolutely not.

he is on the shutdown line. thats the coach deployment, choosing to match his line up with the other teams #1, it doesnt mean its a #1 scoring line. Canucks record supports this usage, dont you think?

Agreed, for $900K he's holding up his end of the bargain.

i didnt even realize that was his salary.

very good trade for the Canucks, salvaging a bust 1st round selection.

 

[DL44]

2 goals and 3 points in 11 games this season despite leading our forwards in ice-time. Basically he's doing what I said he'd be doing. Not surprised by this at all. Also not surprised that a lot of people who loved Granlund last year seemingly ignore this fact.

11 games, 2 goals, SH% of 11.7%, xG 1.6, CF% 47%.

But sure, pipe the narrative that he's been great.

So he doesn't get the Gaunce context treatment from you?

 

[krutovsdonut]

And that would be fine if he were receiving 15 minutes per game. But he's our leader in ice-time so I would expect a bit more than a 22 point/82 game pace. He's also seeing some PP time, though thankfully not much.

As a 3rd/4th liner I can see use for him. As a 1st liner absolutely not.

i thought you liked line matching coaches and understood hockey?

granlund iss matching other team's best lines in a defensive role so as to free the horvat line to go score. at home it's even more extreme, and last night particularly so. he's doing that with sutter and dorsett.

if he starts racking up points in that role with those line mates, look out.

 

[y2kcanucks]

So he doesn't get the Gaunce context treatment from you?

With a 47% corsi? Absolutely not.

 

[y2kcanucks]

i thought you liked line matching coaches and understood hockey?

granlund iss matching other team's best lines in a defensive role so as to free the horvat line to go score. at home it's even more extreme, and last night particularly so. he's doing that with sutter and dorsett.

if he starts racking up points in that role with those line mates, look out.

So poor puck possession, zero offense to speak of despite all that ice-time is good now? Wow...people are really reaching.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

With a 47% corsi? Absolutely not.

Corsi nonsense? All you had to do was watch last nights game.

Sounds like you missed a good one.

 

[krutovsdonut]

So poor puck possession, zero offense to speak of despite all that ice-time is good now? Wow...people are really reaching.

well, i'd agree "somebody" is reaching.

he was matched against seguin/radulov/benn all night. granlund's line held them off the scoresheet and outshot them 5 on 5.

which brings up the question of what are you talking about? it's like you've stopped caring.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

2 goals and 3 points in 11 games this season despite leading our forwards in ice-time. Basically he's doing what I said he'd be doing. Not surprised by this at all. Also not surprised that a lot of people who loved Granlund last year seemingly ignore this fact.

11 games, 2 goals, SH% of 11.7%, xG 1.6, CF% 47%.

But sure, pipe the narrative that he's been great.

Outscoring other team's top line. Good on pk top icetime forward for a wiining team while making 900K. what is not to like.

 

[DL44]

With a 47% corsi? Absolutely not.

Are you on the Sutter for Selke train yet?

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

If you didn't notice Granlund having an outstanding game last night than you should find another sport to watch. You're out of your element. His board play was sublime set up a bunch of grade a scoring chances that werent converted. Great positionally. Anticipation was great. He seems both stronger on pucks and a improvemnt on his speed this year. If he wasn't playing with Sutter and Dorsett he'd be producing more offense. He was setting those guys up all night. He's just too important to the team right now to take off that line. If he's gone that line wouldn't be as effective.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Are you on the Sutter for Selke train yet?

This is random. With a 45% CF%? Why would I?

 

[MS]

With a 47% corsi? Absolutely not.

So poor puck possession, zero offense to speak of despite all that ice-time is good now? Wow...people are really reaching.

That line has been an outstanding shutdown line this year while being buried in tough minutes, and if you aren't realizing that you either aren't watching the games, don't understand what you're watching, or are in complete denial.

I don't particularly like any of those three players, especially Sutter. And we'll see if they keep it up. But they've been very good.

And using raw corsi numbers to judge players is really, really dumb.

 

[rune74]

That line has been an outstanding shutdown line this year while being buried in tough minutes, and if you aren't realizing that you either aren't watching the games, don't understand what you're watching, or are in complete denial.

I don't particularly like any of those three players, especially Sutter. And we'll see if they keep it up. But they've been very good.

And using raw corsi numbers to judge players is really, really dumb.

I totally agree with you.