*The All-Purpose Sean Monahan Thread*

[SmellOfVictory]

I think that's not a bad idea. I think I heard on TSN one of the panellists saying that 10 times out of 10, the player would opt to stay in the NHL.

Makes sense. Stick in the big leagues, make money and play with the big boys, or go beat up on a bunch of kids you're substantially better than for a couple of weeks for free? WJC doesn't seem quite so tempting from that perspective. The only thing it's got going for it is the national pride angle for someone who's already made the NHL.

 

[Beats By CoRD]

Skated briefly today. Maybe a week away or so. Great news.

 

[Beats By CoRD]

Hertyl to miss a month and half with a knee injury. Great news for Monahan and his Calder trophy hopes.

 

[Svenner]

Hertyl to miss a month and half with a knee injury. Great news for Monahan and his Calder trophy hopes.

Absolutely, definitely still got guys like Jones in the mix (MacKinnon climbing too) but Monahan has a chance here to catch up from when he missed some time. Hopefully yesterday's performance is a rare occurrence.

 

[1989]

I hate to say it but Monahan's a long shot. Not because he hasn't been playing well because he has been, but I'd put a few players ahead of him even without Hertl.

In no particular order:

Seth Jones
Anthony Mantha
Valeri Nichushkin
Martin Jones
Nathan MacKinnon

all have a strong case either alongside or in front of Monahan right now. Monahan is not a bad player by any means but he's not exactly flashy or putting up "wow" numbers in his respective categories like Martin Jones is, for example.

Just a very, very tough Calder year.

All credit to Monahan if he does pull some bigger numbers but I feel like this season a rookie would have to score 55+ points as a forward or have incredible defensive ratings to win. But Monahan has never been that kind of "attention-garnering" player - he plays so steady, composed, mature, and serious and that can work against him especially in regards to awards that don't have as much empirical basis to them. The Calder trophy is a bit of a popularity contest + some stat watching. IMO, Brodin should have won it last year, for instance, but he was neither popular enough or statistically excellent enough.

IMO, Calder should be awarded like the Ted Lindsay - judged by their peers of rookies and sophomores and the like. Never been a fan of the Professional Hockey Writers Association in terms of dishing out awards - as we all know, some media can be pretty clueless about the state of the League as a whole. Especially since Jarome Iginla lost out on a Hart trophy by one vote because some dork didn't even put Iginla's name on his ballot whatsoever, and cemented Jose Theodore as a Hart winner instead.

 

[CalgaryFlames1266]

I hate to say it but Monahan's a long shot. Not because he hasn't been playing well because he has been, but I'd put a few players ahead of him even without Hertl.

In no particular order:

Seth Jones
Anthony Mantha
Valeri Nichushkin
Martin Jones
Nathan MacKinnon

all have a strong case either alongside or in front of Monahan right now. Monahan is not a bad player by any means but he's not exactly flashy or putting up "wow" numbers in his respective categories like Martin Jones is, for example.

Just a very, very tough Calder year.

I don't think Anthony Mantha has any chance at the calder this season.

 

[Lunatik]

I hate to say it but Monahan's a long shot. Not because he hasn't been playing well because he has been, but I'd put a few players ahead of him even without Hertl.

In no particular order:

Seth Jones
Anthony Mantha
Valeri Nichushkin
Martin Jones
Nathan MacKinnon

all have a strong case either alongside or in front of Monahan right now. Monahan is not a bad player by any means but he's not exactly flashy or putting up "wow" numbers in his respective categories like Martin Jones is, for example.

Just a very, very tough Calder year.

All credit to Monahan if he does pull some bigger numbers but I feel like this season a rookie would have to score 55+ points as a forward or have incredible defensive ratings to win. But Monahan has never been that kind of "attention-garnering" player - he plays so steady, composed, mature, and serious and that can work against him especially in regards to awards that don't have as much empirical basis to them. The Calder trophy is a bit of a popularity contest + some stat watching. IMO, Brodin should have won it last year, for instance, but he was neither popular enough or statistically excellent enough.

Alex Chaisson and Tomas Hertl are very much contenders for the award and both well ahead of Martin Jones, who isn't even in the conversation and is well below Monahan no matter how you slice it.

And Anthony Mantha? That would be highly impressive since he can't play in the NHL this season except on an emergency recall basis or when the Foreurs season ends.

 

[1989]

I don't think Anthony Mantha has any chance at the calder this season.

He still has a better chance at winning despite not playing in the NHL thus far this season

My bad, it's what I get for having prospect forum open for too long.

 

[1989]

Alex Chaisson and Tomas Hertl are very much contenders for the award and both well ahead of Martin Jones, who isn't even in the conversation.

And Anthony Mantha? That would be highly impressive since he can't play in the NHL this season except on an emergency recall basis or when the Foreurs season ends.

If Martin Jones plays around let's say, 15 more games in the season and keeps up a sub-1.5 GAA and .920 sv% or better I think he will. It's a small sample size but his numbers are still unreal for any rookie goaltender ever, backup or not.

Forgot about Chiasson but yes, he's definitely in the mix.

 

[MarkGio]

Calder trophy isn't everything. Some guys have let that early success get to their heads. Monahan is being sheltered a little bit more than some of his rookie colleagues, but he's also playing on a weak team with mediocre linemates. Hertl has elite guys beside him, as MacKinnon.

Besides, the Eastern clubs get watched more due to earlier games (as indicated by the Theodore pick). Writer's will no doubt pick Nichushkin.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Calder trophy isn't everything. Some guys have let that early success get to their heads. Monahan is being sheltered a little bit more than some of his rookie colleagues, but he's also playing on a weak team with mediocre linemates. Hertl has elite guys beside him, as MacKinnon.

Besides, the Eastern clubs get watched more due to earlier games (as indicated by the Theodore pick). Writer's will no doubt pick Nichushkin.

Can't see why they would pick Nichushkin, if Hertl is out for a serious amount of time I would say the top 3 would be

Seth Jones
Kreider
Monahan

 

[Lunatik]

If Martin Jones plays around let's say, 15 more games in the season and keeps up a sub-1.5 GAA and .920 sv% or better I think he will. It's a small sample size but his numbers are still unreal for any rookie goaltender ever, backup or not.

Forgot about Chiasson but yes, he's definitely in the mix.

If Jones plays 15 more games he will have a whole 22 games, meaning he would be eligible for the Calder Trophy in 2014-15.

But let's say he plays 26 games and becomes eligible for the award.

In the last 30 years a mere 6 goaltenders have won the Calder trophy, none of those 6 goaltenders played fewer than 42 games and the fewest wins any of them recorded was 26. Martin Jones is simply not a Calder candidate this year.

 

[TheHudlinator]

If Jones plays 15 more games he will have a whole 22 games, meaning he would be eligible for the Calder Trophy in 2014-15.

But let's say he plays 26 games and becomes eligible for the award.

In the last 30 years a mere 6 goaltenders have won the Calder trophy, none of those 6 goaltenders played fewer than 42 games and the fewest wins any of them recorded was 26. Martin Jones is simply not a Calder candidate this year.

Lets wait and see how long Quick takes to get back and how well his is playing but Jones is definitely an unluckily choice without Quick suffering another major injury.

 

[Lunatik]

Can't see why they would pick Nichushkin, if Hertl is out for a serious amount of time I would say the top 3 would be

Seth Jones
Kreider
Monahan

Hertl will be out about a month from what reports have indicated, this should give him a chance to play in close to 65-70 games still.

But let's say he is out longer and it removes him from being a candidate.

Seth Jones would be the favourite IMO and it's not even all that close.

But I would say MacKinnon, Kreider, Krug, Chaisson and Toffoli are all ahead of Monahan at the moment. He is down to 10th in points, he is still 2nd in goals (barely) and he's down to 35th in ice-time (7th among forwards). Quite frankly unless he starts getting significant ice-time he will not even be in the conversation.

 

[Lunatik]

Lets wait and see how long Quick takes to get back and how well his is playing but Jones is definitely an unluckily choice without Quick suffering another major injury.

for Jones to play even 26 games to become eligible Quick would have to be out for 2 more months this year and that is just to get over 25 games to become eligible. He is unlikely to receive a single vote unless he plays 35+ games which would pretty much mean Quick would have to be out for a year.

 

[1989]

If Jones plays 15 more games he will have a whole 22 games, meaning he would be eligible for the Calder Trophy in 2014-15.

But let's say he plays 26 games and becomes eligible for the award.

In the last 30 years a mere 6 goaltenders have won the Calder trophy, none of those 6 goaltenders played fewer than 42 games and the fewest wins any of them recorded was 26. Martin Jones is simply not a Calder candidate this year.

You make really good points and I would definitely re-assess my comment earlier about him being in the mix right now.

This is completely hypothetical but I'd like to get your opinion on this with some of the fact you posted about previous rookie goaltenders winning the Calder:

Right now, Martin Jones is an astounding 7-0-0 with 3 shutouts and an elite 0.85 GAA and a save percentage of .971.
That's beyond what most established #1 goaltenders in the League see beyond their first game in a season, let alone 7 games into their career.

If Martin Jones plays lets say, 30 games total this season, and establishes a 0.95 sv % and a GAA below 1.3, and a record of 20-7-3 would you say that those numbers would get him within top 3 of Calder trophy voting with respect to the statistics of Calder trophy winning goaltenders in years prior?

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Barkov has also been playing much better. Monahan is in the conversation though.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Hertl will be out about a month from what reports have indicated, this should give him a chance to play in close to 65-70 games still.

But let's say he is out longer and it removes him from being a candidate.

Seth Jones would be the favourite IMO and it's not even all that close.

But I would say MacKinnon, Kreider, Krug, Chaisson and Toffoli are all ahead of Monahan at the moment. He is down to 10th in points, he is still 2nd in goals (barely) and he's down to 35th in ice-time (7th among forwards). Quite frankly unless he starts getting significant ice-time he will not even be in the conversation.

Monahan is ahead of Chaisson in ppg and barely behind Kreider. Krug might be ahead of him but the ice time concern also exists for him. Unlike Toffoli, MacKinnon, and Kreider Monahan isn't playing with guys that were thought to be first line players before this year.

 

[TheHudlinator]

for Jones to play even 26 games to become eligible Quick would have to be out for 2 more months this year and that is just to get over 25 games to become eligible. He is unlikely to receive a single vote unless he plays 35+ games which would pretty much mean Quick would have to be out for a year.

Like I said it is extremely unlikely but lets not say it couldn't happen. If Quick were to be out for 2 months and Jones plays this well even with only about 30-35 games he might be in the conversation.

 

[Anglesmith]

I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves, though. Wasn't Victor Fasth's first introduction to the NHL similarly impressive?

 

[1989]

I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves, though. Wasn't Victor Fasth's first introduction to the NHL similarly impressive?

Fasth wasn't even age-eligible for the Calder and he only played 25 games. He was 30 years old, with plenty of experience in European men's leagues.

Jones is 23 and this is his first time playing outside the AHL.

I know I've been talking about him a lot in this thread but I'm not actually a huge fan of his or whatever. I will say his numbers are impressive but definitely lack much intrinsic value other than indication of potential, but the sample size is incredibly small. I'd just like to see what others think his Calder chances are if he plays more games.

Either way, I don't think it's a great argument for Monahan in this thread as a legitimate Calder threat. He's just not getting enough minutes to be in discussion for top 3 votes, though I'd say he's in the top 5 for sure.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Fasth wasn't even age-eligible for the Calder and he only played 25 games. He was 30 years old, with plenty of experience in European men's leagues.

Jones is 23 and this is his first time playing outside the AHL.

I know I've been talking about him a lot in this thread but I'm not actually a huge fan of his or whatever. I will say his numbers are impressive but definitely lack much intrinsic value other than indication of potential, but the sample size is incredibly small. I'd just like to see what others think his Calder chances are if he plays more games.

Either way, I don't think it's a great argument for Monahan in this thread as a legitimate Calder threat. He's just not getting enough minutes to be in discussion for top 3 votes, though I'd say he's in the top 5 for sure.

I don't get the time on ice argument unless you also believe Mackinnon doesn't have a shot.

 

[marbsarebad]

Can't see why they would pick Nichushkin, if Hertl is out for a serious amount of time I would say the top 3 would be

Seth Jones
Kreider
Monahan

Well, Nichushkin has 16 in his last 22 games, and Monahan has 16 points in 28 games. Both are pretty ugly teams, so the argument for being an elite player on a bad team kind of leans towards the Nichushkin side. Also, there's the fact that Jaromir Jagr, probably the most famous active player right now, called him the best rookie he's seen in a long time and that he will be the best in the world one day.
I love Money, but how can you compare with that?
Unless he starts putting up multi-point games or goes at least PPG I can't see our boy winning it this year, as much as I think he should.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Well, Nichushkin has 16 in his last 22 games, and Monahan has 16 points in 28 games. Both are pretty ugly teams, so the argument for being an elite player on a bad team kind of leans towards the Nichushkin side. Also, there's the fact that Jaromir Jagr, probably the most famous active player right now, called him the best rookie he's seen in a long time and that he will be the best in the world one day.
I love Money, but how can you compare with that?
Unless he starts putting up multi-point games or goes at least PPG I can't see our boy winning it this year, as much as I think he should.

Monahan started hot and now now Nichuskin is hot they will continue to get streaks I don't get why you wouldn't include Nichuskin's slow start when comparing the players. Also if you think that playing with Been and Seguin is a wash with Hudler and Sven then there is no point in arguing about this as we will never agree.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Personally, I'd go with Gelinas, Krug, then Toffoli. Monahan isn't even in my top five.