Prospect Info: The 2020 Entry NHL Draft Thread: Part III

[Foppa2118]

I've said it before, but you aren't going to get a perfect prospect with the 25th pick.

This is important to remember.

We should be happy if the Avs find any sort of NHLer at 25, especially with their track record after the top 10.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Dude... really? You’re just being obtuse because you don’t like Brisson. We won’t know how fast his progression happens, or if it happens. He has the traits of a player that will improve significantly. His skating reminds me of Point at the same age. I don’t expect him to take the same jump, but I think he takes a significant jump up. I’m pretty picky about skating. If a player has perfect technique and still sucks, I’m a big pass even if it looks pretty. If a player sucks but has correctable elements, I start looking for other things in the stride to see if he can have a base to improve. Trying to understand the ceiling. Brisson has good parts to build on.

Drafting is an imperfect science because you have to make decisions at a snapshot in time with the information available. It gets more imperfect as the draft goes on.

There’s a lot of hedging going on here.

You identified several flaws. What are these traits?

You mention Point and then you back off of it and say you don’t expect the same jump. Why bring up Point then? What about the players that have the same issues but don’t even come close? Why do you choose to mention Point but ignore the more realistic comparisons?

Good parts to build on? How do you explain half his goals coming from the power play in spite of being on a stacked team? And along those lines, how do you know he will be as effective with a lot less time and space. He has a big wind up and on a lot of his goals no one was near him.

Regarding the draft being an imperfect science. Everything you said could also be said about every other prospect in that range. But that doesn’t explain why Brisson should be taken instead of others.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Yeah you’re very clearly wrong.

About what? You’re still trying to claim the Avs haven’t neglected Europe? You’re still on that hamster wheel?

 

[henchman21]

There’s a lot of hedging going on here.

You identified several flaws. What are these traits?

You mention a Point and then you back off of it and say you don’t expect the same jump. Why bring up Point then? What about the players that have the same issues but don’t even come close? Why do you choose to mention point but ignore the more realistic comparisons?

Good parts to build on? How do you explain half his goals coming from the power play in spite of being on a stacked team? And along those lines, how do you know he will be as effective with a lot less time and space. He has a big wind up and on a lot of his goals no one was near him.

Regarding the draft being an imperfect science. Everything you said could also be said about every other prospect in that range. But that doesn’t explain why Brisson should be taken instead of others.

I pointed out flaws just a few posts ago, you can read them there.

I mention Point as similar flaws. It is a big jump to go from average/good to one of the best in the world. Brisson’s skating reminds me of Point. Same flaws, same strengths. Improvement should be there for Brisson.

I’ve posted on Brisson multiple times. You can look those up.

 

[Balthazar]

This is important to remember.

We should be happy if the Avs find any sort of NHLer at 25, especially with their track record after the top 10.

I say let's play the odds and pick the Jost-like prospect (Brisson) at the Bleackley position (mid 20's). Can't miss all the time, right?

 

[henchman21]

About what? You’re still trying to claim the Avs haven’t neglected Europe? You’re still on that hamster wheel?

You’re the one who said top 10 or 5th round. Also saying the Avs neglect Europe more than other teams. Neither is true. I put out players outside that range, you just refuse to acknowledge. The Avs have drafted more Euros than Tampa over the same period. Tampa hasn’t selected a Euro in the first since 2012. Avs have done that twice in that period. Does Tampa neglect Europe?

 

[henchman21]

I say let's play the odds and pick the Jost-like prospect (Brisson) at the Bleackley position (mid 20's). Can't miss all the time, right?

I mean... you want the Bleackley like pick at the Bleackley spot.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I've said it before, but you aren't going to get a perfect prospect with the 25th pick.
.

But that doesn’t explain why the pick should be Brisson.

 

[Papa Francouz]

But that doesn’t explain why the puck should be Brisson.

If Brisson is the highest rated available player on the Avs' draft list, then he should be the pick at 25. If not, then they should pick whoever is the highest rated available player on their draft list. If you want to know why Brisson is rated highly on the Avs' draft list, then you'll need to get in touch with a scout. We, as fans, are not privy to all of the conversations had at the drafting table. Maybe we'll get lucky and a video will come out showing why they picked who they picked, but I'm not counting on it.

To me, personally, he's one of the best players speculated to be available at 25 due to his intelligence, skill, and his room for improvement and projected upside. If the Avs don't feel the same way, then that's just how it goes. Regardless of who they pick, I look forward to hearing Sakic and Hepple saying why they picked who they picked so I can get excited about their potential future with the team.

 

[S E P H]

How do you know this?

This forum is an opinion based website, you need to take everyone's view especially when it comes to prospects as opinion based. Over time you'll be able to see who's opinion you can trust and who's you don't need to. I also suggest that Brisson's problems are over blown, I don't think he's as good of a skater as Eichel is but I also see a lot of similarities in their style. Both aren't the flash, but have strong smooth strides that it's enough to get by.

 

[John Mandalorian]

You’re the one who said top 10 or 5th round. Also saying the Avs neglect Europe more than other teams. Neither is true. I put out players outside that range, you just refuse to acknowledge. The Avs have drafted more Euros than Tampa over the same period. Tampa hasn’t selected a Euro in the first since 2012. Avs have done that twice in that period. Does Tampa neglect Europe?

You mentioned 2 players taken in the 4th, which doesn’t really make much of a case as to the issue being discussed. And you mentioned Annunen. Same thing. I’m glad you think that was an accomplishment though.

Why would you bring up Tampa? If we could draft like Tampa, this Europe thing wouldn’t be as much of an issue.

And it’s important that we start drafting effectively and effectively on a consistent basis with our main guys coming up for big contracts. We’re going to need to start churning out players to fill other roles if we’re going to sustain. If you ignore Europe, it only becomes more difficult.

 

[Foppa2118]

You’re the one who said top 10 or 5th round. Also saying the Avs neglect Europe more than other teams. Neither is true. I put out players outside that range, you just refuse to acknowledge. The Avs have drafted more Euros than Tampa over the same period. Tampa hasn’t selected a Euro in the first since 2012. Avs have done that twice in that period. Does Tampa neglect Europe?

Tampa can afford to neglect Europe because they've proven themselves as one of the best drafting teams in the league using their strategy.

The Avs have proven that they're one of the worst drafting teams in the league, unless they have a top 10 pick, so they can't afford to neglect Europe.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I pointed out flaws just a few posts ago, you can read them there.

I mention Point as similar flaws. It is a big jump to go from average/good to one of the best in the world. Brisson’s skating reminds me of Point. Same flaws, same strengths. Improvement should be there for Brisson.

I’ve posted on Brisson multiple times. You can look those up.

You must have misread. I acknowledged that you mentioned several flaws. But here I was asking you about the traits that you mentioned in the quoted post.

 

[henchman21]

You must have misread. I acknowledged that you mentioned several flaws. But here I was asking you about the traits that you mentioned in the quoted post.

Must have. Those are in a previous post.

 

[henchman21]

You mentioned 2 players taken in the 4th, which doesn’t really make much of a case as to the issue being discussed. And you mentioned Annunen. Same thing. I’m glad you think that was an accomplishment though.

Why would you bring up Tampa? If we could draft like Tampa, this Europe thing wouldn’t be as much of an issue.

And it’s important that we start drafting effectively and effectively on a consistent basis with our main guys coming up for big contracts. We’re going to need to start churning out players to fill other roles if we’re going to sustain. If you ignore Europe, it only becomes more difficult.

That makes 4 players outside the range you specified. You’re the one who claimed it was simply one or the other, which it clearly is not.

Tampa is just one example. Look around the league. Avs are drafting Euros around the average. They aren’t heavy Euro and they don’t solely go NA.

I agree the Avs need to be better at drafting. I’ve probably bitched more about the Avs drafting than anybody else. They’ve sucked outside the top picks and need to get better.

 

[McMetal]

This is nice but be specific.

How do you identify people who “slag his ex teammates wife for being fat”? How do you discern them from the normal immaturity of being 18?

And better yet, when a player seems mature in that they seem to have a good character and strong work ethic but aren’t like that (like Bleackley), how do you identify this?

NHL scouts do background on players all the time. They talk to family, coaches, teammates, all off the record, to get to know them. This is, of course, aside from actual one on one interviews.

And not every 17 year old is a giant immature asshole, either. There's plenty of examples on this team of guys with good heads on their shoulders. Makar being one of them, whose character was seen to be impeccable by even his harshest critics (like myself).

I'm not an NHL scout, so I haven't interviewed any teammates or coaches. But I want to point out that character issues can be a real problem and can't be just brushed aside like they're no big deal every time.

 

[McMetal]

You talkin' about Brendan Leipsic? Yeah, someone I know who works in hockey who has had some dealings with him wasn't too surprised, just disappointed when it came out that he hadn't really grown or matured any since the last time he had any contact with him.

I think there are a far more NHL players with "character issues" than we're led to believe. And sometimes those character issues don't get in the way of their play at all. Prime example: Patrick Kane, who remains an amazing player but a rotten, horrible human being. A supreme lack of character also doesn't appear to be hampering Tony DeAngelo too badly either.

With Gunler, there are kids like that who tumble because of issues like that every year. It's up to the team to decide if that kid is worth the risk. I won't get mad if the Avs decide not to do it (again, Avs took two kids with "red flags" in Stewart and Wolski, and they didn't pan out for the Avs despite amazing talent) but I won't blame them if they want to try and make him into a pro player.

Yeah, it was Leipsic, I just forgot the name. It's true that character issues aren't death sentences, just like slow feet or IQ issues aren't always going to kill someone's career. They're red flags, not red tattoos, and they can be worked on or even worked around. But I see a lot of folks saying they're not important, and to me that's as bad as saying "Yakupov's shot is good enough that his IQ issues will work themselves out".

 

[Foppa2118]

That makes 4 players outside the range you specified. You’re the one who claimed it was simply one or the other, which it clearly is not.

Tampa is just one example. Look around the league. Avs are drafting Euros around the average. They aren’t heavy Euro and they don’t solely go NA.

I agree the Avs need to be better at drafting. I’ve probably bitched more about the Avs drafting than anybody else. They’ve sucked outside the top picks and need to get better.

Those are the ONLY 4 players out of the 26 the Avs have drafted since 2012 in the range he specified after #10 and before the 5th round.

Since the Avs have been terrible in that range, there's no justification for drafting that few Europeans.

If they were Tampa, they'd be able to justify it, but they're the opposite of Tampa at the draft.

 

[McMetal]

But that doesn’t explain why the pick should be Brisson.

I don't see anyone here pounding the table for Brisson. At this pick there is bound to be a lot of room for projection and speculation even in a good, deep draft like this one. Brisson is one of quite a number of picks who makes sense here, it's near the beginning of a big tier of players who all have solid upside and a flaw or two.

 

[Richard88]

Now I'm hoping that we don't pick Brisson so that we don't have to endure this conversation about his skating being re-hashed ad-infinitum for the next decade.

 

[Ncit3]

I think it's pretty likely we move this pick. Our prospect pool is one of the better at this point and we're contenders. Move it for help. But if we take someone at 25 I would be happy with any of Peterka, Amirov, or Khusnutdinov.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Would love Gunler, be disappointed with Peterka.


Still hoping for Brisson or Foudy though if it's a forward they're taking.

 

[Richard88]

Based on that idea I would think that San Jose could be an interesting trade partner. They were incidentally the last team we traded down with high in the draft, and they've again got picks to make it happen, including our 2nd.

For example:

• COL 1st (#25) to SJ for TBL 1st (#31) + COL 2nd (#56)

Then:

• Zadorov to LAK for VGK 2nd (#60) + LAK 3rd (#66)

and

• Jost to Florida's for FLA 2nd (#43).

Leaving us with #31, 43, 56, 60, 66, and Toronto's 3rd (#75) in the first 3 rounds.

Personally I'd just keep #25 and do those Jost/Zadorov trades and have 25, 43, 60, 66, and 75.

 

[UncleRisto]

That’s more like swinging for contact and hoping you get a single. I don’t mind Neighbors, but he’s not a high ceiling guy. He’s a good shot at middle 6 guy, probably 3rd liner.

It would be a good time to go for a bunt.

I don't know, I just wanted to say a baseball thing.