Prospect Info: The 2018 Draft Thread

[Joey Moss]

There's a difference between OHL hands and NHL hands. I don't think Hayton will be a top 6 player in the NHL because of his skillset.

 

[XXIV97]

Hayton will most likely be a 3rd line + PK center in the NHL. He would be a good pick 16+ but not at 10

 

[Zaddy]

Everyone has a right to their opinion and everyone sees each prospect differently so I wouldn't **** on someones view if they see things differently.

We'll only know the "truth" 3-5 years down the road when these prospects are playing and contributing (or not) in the NHL. Until then, everyone has the chance to be right/wrong on these prospects and Button likely is more highly qualified as he likely watches these players more than the average fan would. Even that of course doesn't make him infallible and even the best pro scouts get the wrong reads on players who sometimes will bust... ie Yakupov.

It's not about having a different opinion. Button was really high on Boqvist earlier in the season, and now all of a sudden he is not in the conversation with Hughes, Bouchard and Dobson?

Look on his rankings from january: https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-dahlin-cemented-top-status-at-world-juniors-1.962249

Boqvist ranked #2. Hell of a jump to make from having Boqvist as #2 and ahead of Svechnikov to a couple of months later not even being as good as Hughes, Bouchard and Dobson. The latter two which he had #10 and #11 respectively by the way...

If he was consistent in his criticism of Boqvist then fine, but when you go from having him as the 2nd player in the draft to a guy who all of a sudden 'doesn't compete' and is a step down from three North Americans then it's starting to look pretty fishy. And again, the things he criticizes Boqvist for aren't even real or true.

 

[Zaddy]

Honestly just compare Buttons lists from different months. The fluctuations between rankings for individual players are insane.

Here's his march list: https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-bouchard-rocketing-up-draft-board-1.1031499

Hughes drops from #7 to #12 in just two months. Jacob Olofsson goes from #13 to #21. Kotkaniemi from #26 to #10!!!???? Nicolas Beaudin from #45 to #25.

Stuff like this is why it's hard to take Button seriously as a 'scout'. Zero consistency in his lists. Looks a lot more like he catches a player have one bad/good game and then massively drop or move up said player. Real scouts don't do that.

 

[PKSpecialist]

Honestly just compare Buttons lists from different months. The fluctuations between rankings for individual players are insane.

Here's his march list: https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-bouchard-rocketing-up-draft-board-1.1031499

Hughes drops from #7 to #12 in just two months. Jacob Olofsson goes from #13 to #21. Kotkaniemi from #26 to #10!!!???? Nicolas Beaudin from #45 to #25.

Stuff like this is why it's hard to take Button seriously as a 'scout'. Zero consistency in his lists. Looks a lot more like he catches a player have one bad/good game and then massively drop or move up said player. Real scouts don't do that.

Real scouts don’t watch all of these kids. They are regionalized. Teams and companies like ISS and future considerations etc. rank these guys based on round table discussions. They each bring what theyve got on their region and then rank the players largely based on international competition to see where the top guy from league X is compared to league Y. And head scouts travel around to watch many of these kids for the same reason, it’s more about ranking players based on their competition. When you watch all of the players for yourself you don’t A) see enough of any one player to get a real good read on them and B) one game, or one tournament, good or bad, can really affect rankings. Large swings are not uncommon. Craig Button should be respected for his opinion because he A) has a clue and B) has opportunity and connections to help inform us on that opinion.
No scout is perfect, and many times when the scouts get it wrong ie) Yakupov...they didn’t really get it wrong...development is more important than the evaluation process pre-draft. An 18 year old kid has a lot of learning to do. If they aren’t developed properly post-draft, there is t a scout in the world that can be blamed.

 

[Zaddy]

Real scouts don’t watch all of these kids. They are regionalized. Teams and companies like ISS and future considerations etc. rank these guys based on round table discussions. They each bring what theyve got on their region and then rank the players largely based on international competition to see where the top guy from league X is compared to league Y. And head scouts travel around to watch many of these kids for the same reason, it’s more about ranking players based on their competition.

I know exactly how it works, I've worked in the industry and have friends who scout both in the NHL and for all those services. I also know scouts who know Craig, well one guy in particular who travel with him to games from time to time and he said it himself that Craig moves guys up and down way too much.

When you watch all of the players for yourself you don’t A) see enough of any one player to get a real good read on them and B) one game, or one tournament, good or bad, can really affect rankings. Large swings are not uncommon. Craig Button should be respected for his opinion because he A) has a clue and B) has opportunity and connections to help inform us on that opinion.

I'm not saying he doesn't have a clue, but he looks silly when a guy he previously had above Svechnikov (who most everyone else agree is in a tier of his own behind Dahlin and ahead of the rest of the pack) now all of a sudden isn't even good enough to be in the same tier as Dobson, Hughes and Bouchard. I've watched Boqvist closely for 2 years, nothing in his game changed in the last 2-4 months that could've sparked that type of difference in opinion.

But that's what Craig does. He randomly falls in love with guys and hypes them up way too much and vice versa, even if it goes against what he has said in the past. As I said, real scouts don't do that. A regional swedish guy isn't going to have Boqvist as #2 behind Dahlin on his list from august-january and then in march have a guy who was ranked much lower on his list suddenly leapfrog him out of nowhere. If he did then his boss would immediately question him and wonder what he's doing.

Boqvist has been a known quantity for 2 years at least. It would be one thing if some guy playing in an obscure league like maybe Makar last year or Parayko in 2012 would leapfrog guys on draft lists since those guys are harder to get viewings on, but Button should've seen Boqvist in one WHC-17 tournament, two U18 tournaments, Ivan Hlinka and a slew of other tournaments like 5 Nations etc so why is it that he all of a sudden now, less than 2 months from the draft has this concern about his compete level or whatever?

 

[PKSpecialist]

I know exactly how it works, I've worked in the industry and have friends who scout both in the NHL and for all those services. I also know scouts who know Craig, well one guy in particular who travel with him to games from time to time and he said it himself that Craig moves guys up and down way too much.



I'm not saying he doesn't have a clue, but he looks silly when a guy he previously had above Svechnikov (who most everyone else agree is in a tier of his own behind Dahlin and ahead of the rest of the pack) now all of a sudden isn't even good enough to be in the same tier as Dobson, Hughes and Bouchard. I've watched Boqvist closely for 2 years, nothing in his game changed in the last 2-4 months that could've sparked that type of difference in opinion.

But that's what Craig does. He randomly falls in love with guys and hypes them up way too much and vice versa, even if it goes against what he has said in the past. As I said, real scouts don't do that. A regional swedish guy isn't going to have Boqvist as #2 behind Dahlin on his list from august-january and then in march have a guy who was ranked much lower on his list suddenly leapfrog him out of nowhere. If he did then his boss would immediately question him and wonder what he's doing.

Boqvist has been a known quantity for 2 years at least. It would be one thing if some guy playing in an obscure league like maybe Makar last year or Parayko in 2012 would leapfrog guys on draft lists since those guys are harder to get viewings on, but Button should've seen Boqvist in one WHC-17 tournament, two U18 tournaments, Ivan Hlinka and a slew of other tournaments like 5 Nations etc so why is it that he all of a sudden now, less than 2 months from the draft has this concern about his compete level or whatever?

Maybe he’s doing the opposite of what you said...trying not to move a guy too much.... maybe he had these concerns at the Hlinka, but didn’t want to overreact because it’s one tournament....then saw him at the U18’s and saw the same concerns and decided it wasn’t just one tournament, it was a consistent concern he was seeing.

Now the the season is coming to an end and the draft is nearing he is taking all of his notes and solidifying his rankings.... all of the rankings leading up to the final one are just fluff. Fodder for you and I to read. His final ranking is the one he should be judged on...and realistically he shouldn’t be judged on it for 10 years anyways.

 

[McDNicks17]

I wonder if Pavel Vorobey will get a look.

20 year old, 6'3'' 200lb right-handed defenseman playing for Belarus at the WC right now. Has two points in two games there and put up some pretty good numbers in the KHL(12 points in 52 games, +8 on a really bad Kunlun team).

I wouldn't mind seeing the Oilers use their 6th/7th rounders on that type of player.

They've actually had decent luck with overage Europeans lately. Gustafsson made the Blackhawks, Berglund looks like one of the team's better prospects, Svoboda looks to be a prospect, Paigin looked legit for a bit and Tuohimaa has turned into a really good goalie in Finland.

 

[Zaddy]

OHL watchers: Thoughts on defensemen Carter Robertson, Tyler Tucker, Declan Chisholm and Peter Stratis?

 

[Kalost]

I wonder if Pavel Vorobey will get a look.

20 year old, 6'3'' 200lb right-handed defenseman playing for Belarus at the WC right now. Has two points in two games there and put up some pretty good numbers in the KHL(12 points in 52 games, +8 on a really bad Kunlun team).

I wouldn't mind seeing the Oilers use their 6th/7th rounders on that type of player.

They've actually had decent luck with overage Europeans lately. Gustafsson made the Blackhawks, Berglund looks like one of the team's better prospects, Svoboda looks to be a prospect, Paigin looked legit for a bit and Tuohimaa has turned into a really good goalie in Finland.

Personally i'm a fan of taking overagers, But our development and opportunity for some of these guys needs to be better.. I always like Tuohimaa but he never got a good opportunity. And not giving Svoboda a deal is just silly

 

[Zaddy]

If we're talking overagers, here's one of the guys I want:

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I wonder if Pavel Vorobey will get a look.

20 year old, 6'3'' 200lb right-handed defenseman playing for Belarus at the WC right now. Has two points in two games there and put up some pretty good numbers in the KHL(12 points in 52 games, +8 on a really bad Kunlun team).

I wouldn't mind seeing the Oilers use their 6th/7th rounders on that type of player.

They've actually had decent luck with overage Europeans lately. Gustafsson made the Blackhawks, Berglund looks like one of the team's better prospects, Svoboda looks to be a prospect, Paigin looked legit for a bit and Tuohimaa has turned into a really good goalie in Finland.

You werent joking when you were saying Kunlun was a bad team, I think that would be a good flyer for a 6/7th rounder.

 

[McDNicks17]

If we're talking overagers, here's one of the guys I want:

Any thoughts on Einar Emanuelsson?

 

[McDNicks17]

OHL watchers: Thoughts on defensemen Carter Robertson, Tyler Tucker, Declan Chisholm and Peter Stratis?

Tucker is fun to watch.

You see him do this fairly regularly:


Doesn't have the most upside, but I think he's got enough smarts and puck skills to be a nasty bottom pairing guy.

 

[Skolman]

Man, I'm really hoping we draft Drury at #40

 

[McFlash97]

It's not about having a different opinion. Button was really high on Boqvist earlier in the season, and now all of a sudden he is not in the conversation with Hughes, Bouchard and Dobson?

Look on his rankings from january: https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-dahlin-cemented-top-status-at-world-juniors-1.962249

Boqvist ranked #2. Hell of a jump to make from having Boqvist as #2 and ahead of Svechnikov to a couple of months later not even being as good as Hughes, Bouchard and Dobson. The latter two which he had #10 and #11 respectively by the way...

If he was consistent in his criticism of Boqvist then fine, but when you go from having him as the 2nd player in the draft to a guy who all of a sudden 'doesn't compete' and is a step down from three North Americans then it's starting to look pretty fishy. And again, the things he criticizes Boqvist for aren't even real or true.

He just wants Boqvist to drop to Calgary.....since the Flamers aren't picking in the first round and all...BQV is the second best dman in this draft. You heard it here in case anyone disagrees.
.

 

[BarDownBobo]

The more I think about it I really think Boqvist is the most likely defenseman that would possibly slide down to our pick at #10.
-Someone is going to try to hit a homerun with Hughes, possibly even as high as Montreal at #3. He's showing he can do it against men at the Worlds, which was my main concern with him.
-Bouchard is a really safe pick as you're almost guaranteed a second pairing dman at worst, and he'll be able to step in quickly due to his age as a late 99 and his physical maturity. He won't get past the Canucks who would probably love to pair him back up with Juolevi.
-Dobson is going to keep picking up steam the longer Bathurst stays in the playoffs. He's a personal favorite of mine and I think he has ridiculous upside with a very safe floor as well. He'd be a fit with every team from 4-10.
-Boqvist on the other hand might have some concerns about his health after a rumored concussion at the u18s, which would be his second of the season IIRC. He also has yet to show how well his offensive game will transition when playing against men.

Tkachuk and Wahlstrom will both go before the Oil pick as well imo, so it'll all come down to if a team from 6-9 decides that they want to grab that potential high end center in Kotkaniemi over a winger or dman. It should make for an interesting draft that's for sure.

 

[Spawn]

Boqvist making it to 10th sounds like it would be a perfect scenario for us. We've already got some Swedish D who are signed long term who can help with the transition and he's got what appears to be an elite offensive game from the back end.

 

[McIce Whole]

Boqvist making it to 10th sounds like it would be a perfect scenario for us. We've already got some Swedish D who are signed long term who can help with the transition and he's got what appears to be an elite offensive game from the back end.

Yup. If Boqvist honestly drops to 10, the Oilers might be getting the steal of the draft. Like you said, having Klefbom and Larsson here to groom him in would be a bonus for his development and transition into the NHL.

Doubt he makes it though, I think Chicago snags him if he’s on the board by the time they pick.

 

[Zaddy]

Any thoughts on Einar Emanuelsson?

Love him. Would take him as high as 3rd round (especially considering we don't have a 4th). He's going to be a player. Has everything you want except size pretty much. He has progressed really nicely from year to year too. He's one of those guys I wouldn't be surprised to see play in the NHL 2 years from now. Would be a shrewd pick from the Oilers if they took him.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Any thoughts on Einar Emanuelsson?

Einar?! I barely know 'ar!

 

[Ruok]

Any thoughts on Einar Emanuelsson?

That's a good hockey name

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

Einar is Finkle...Finkle is Einar!?!

 

[McDNicks17]

Love him. Would take him as high as 3rd round (especially considering we don't have a 4th). He's going to be a player. Has everything you want except size pretty much. He has progressed really nicely from year to year too. He's one of those guys I wouldn't be surprised to see play in the NHL 2 years from now. Would be a shrewd pick from the Oilers if they took him.

Nice. Seems like an ideal guy to draft, let play in Sweden for a year and then bring over to compete for a spot.


I'm not sure why teams don't look at overage Europeans more.

I liked Sebastian Repo last draft. Not huge upside, but a guy I thought who could likely play on an NHL 3rd/4th line in a year or two. The Oilers took Brind'Amour a handful of picks before Repo ended up going to Florida. Repo almost made the Panthers out of camp and is pretty much guaranteed to play NHL games before Brind'Amour even gets to college.

Obviously you want some high-upside long shot picks too, but when you're dealing with lower upside guys, why not take a guy with the same upside who is much closer to hitting that upside?

 

[dustrock]

The other thing about Boqvist - correct me if I'm wrong - has he not played in 3 different Swedish leagues this year? That's enough to affect anybody, let alone a young player. Plus Hlinka, WJHC, U-18.

Re the Canucks Army stats article - wish there was a way we could see a split of Veleno's stats pre-trade and post-trade.