Team Shots with/without Karlsson

[Bilbo]

From TSN article on the Karlsson and the Sens.

View attachment 86717

That is a disturbing, yet not surprising, trend. The Sens in many of their roster choices this year have shown that puck possession has a MUCH lower priority than physical play. So we are 6th in the NHL in hits, while running around in our own end getting pummelled on shots and goals. Chicago and Dallas appear to be doing fine while being 2 of the bottom 4 teams in hits.

With Boro, Cowen, Neil, Chiasson, Dziurzynski, Smith (on first line) I do not see this changing. MacArthur may be done for the year and Michalek helps but not much.

It is time to start playing young guys more (Prince, Puemple, Claesson?, Dzingel - 5 mins!!) trade away or bench some of the possession black holes listed above. Try to pick up some solid bottom 6 skaters and at least a defencemen as the trade deadline approaches. This season is trending the wrong way but start making changes to potentially help this year and next.

We are wasting the best years of a superstars career if we continue on the current path.

Click to read more...

 

[WhiteLight*]

It's just more of the same from this management and this coaching staff. Not surprising

 

[Six Assets]

Nice to know that we are wasting prime years of our top players

 

[WhiteLight*]

Nice to know that we are wasting prime years of our top players

there's "no money". Hands are tied, it's not their fault whatsoever

 

[WhiteLight*]

Michalek - $4,000,000
Cowen - $3,700,000
Greening - $2,750,000
Wiercioch - $2,700,000
Phillips - $2,500,000
Neil - $1,500,000
Chiasson - $1,200,000
Kostka - $300,000 (AHL Salary)
Stortini - $175,000 (AHL Salary)
Mullen - $150,000 (AHL Salary)
Fraser - $125,000 (AHL Salary)
Total: $19,100,000

 

[HavlatMach9]

nvm reading the chart wrong

 

[DJB]

Michalek - $4,000,000
Cowen - $3,700,000
Greening - $2,750,000
Wiercioch - $2,700,000
Phillips - $2,500,000
Neil - $1,500,000
Chiasson - $1,200,000
Kostka - $300,000 (AHL Salary)
Stortini - $175,000 (AHL Salary)
Mullen - $150,000 (AHL Salary)
Fraser - $125,000 (AHL Salary)
Total: $19,100,000

That's one expensive anchor right there lol

 

[WhiteLight*]

That's one expensive anchor right there lol

Oh yeah.


When you think about it, 19M buys you 2 top 4 defensemen and 1 franchise forward at UFA value.

Obviously, a franchise forward wasn't available, but there's still much wiser ways to spend that money.

 

[HavlatMach9]

Up until last year, those shot differentials are suggesting that shots wise, we've been an average team right?

Of those contracts posted, a few are fine and reasonable to have, AHL salaries are budgeted out differently I bet, and we'll still have to pay the same # of players so it's not like all the saved money goes to a few top players

 

[PatrickEaves]

Nice to know that we are wasting prime years of our top players

The "Ottawa Way".

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Michalek - $4,000,000
Cowen - $3,700,000
Greening - $2,750,000
Wiercioch - $2,700,000
Phillips - $2,500,000
Neil - $1,500,000
Chiasson - $1,200,000
Kostka - $300,000 (AHL Salary)
Stortini - $175,000 (AHL Salary)
Mullen - $150,000 (AHL Salary)
Fraser - $125,000 (AHL Salary)
Total: $19,100,000

Why are you including AHL contracts in your figure?

I don't think Phillips money really figures into this either unless MacArthur ends up missing the entire year. It's probably a fair assumption that there will be an insurance claim for Phillips salary.

I think it's pretty fair to say that in his absence, we've learned more about the value of Milan Michalek. He's sorely missed on this club.

You can say whatever figure = 2.top four UFA D and whatever but the reality is we have to find players who want to play here and when we do on those markets we have to sign contracts that will hurt us down the road. The reason Murray didn't sign an older top 4 guy was to ensure we can keep guys like Hoffman.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

The sad thing is, we aren't wasting our top players' prime.

We are wasting the prime years of the best player in the NHL.

With that being said, IMO Ottawa is not in danger... our best players imo are just reaching their best parts of their careers like:

Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, Turris, Zibanejad, Ryan, Ceci, Methot(kind of), Pageau, Smith, Lazar

What we need to do is similar to what Chicago did, compete when Karlsson is 26/27 and stay competing into his early 30's

That means next year we make serious strides to be East contenders(which is basically Cup contenders) and 2 years from now we are favorites and serious contenders overall.

I think that's manageable. We just need to invest extremely wisely right now in both drafting and trading.

We have: Neil, Phillips, Wier, Chiasson coming off the books or RFAs

They will likely all leave and balance off with raises to Hoffman, Ceci, Wideman and couple of RFAs.

That means we will have little wiggle room again thus we need to spend a little more next year before things get crazy. Moving Cowen a year early would be very ideal.

The year after that Greening, Michalek, Cowen coming off books but Zibby, Pageau and Lazar due for raises.

Also, the most important thing is Anderson is in compete mode now, we need to compete by next year.

Therefore goals for this deadline/Summer:

1) Acquire top 4 defender
2) Dump Cowen and Greening and sign another top 4 in off-season or top 6.
3) Compete next year

 

[DrEasy]

You can say whatever figure = 2.top four UFA D and whatever but the reality is we have to find players who want to play here and when we do on those markets we have to sign contracts that will hurt us down the road. The reason Murray didn't sign an older top 4 guy was to ensure we can keep guys like Hoffman.

Yeah, we're kind of in the same situation as Anthopoulos' Blue Jays where bringing in talent is difficult, but we can re-sign our own guys (check: Anderson, Ryan, MacArthur, Methot), draft well (check: we've definitely done that), and take on other teams' bad contracts (that's what we haven't done, probably due to budgetary restrictions or lack of dance partners).

 

[WhiteLight*]

Why are you including AHL contracts in your figure?

I assume/am pretty certain they get paid by the same source.

Stortini, Mullen, Fraser and Kostka is an awful way of spending $750,000.

I don't think Phillips money really figures into this either unless MacArthur ends up missing the entire year. It's probably a fair assumption that there will be an insurance claim for Phillips salary.

I am 99.9% sure that not all NHL contracts are insured.

I am 75% sure Phillips' contract is not insured. Could be wrong though.

Either way, the Sens won't be spending any money they (potentially) save from Phillips to make this team better

I think it's pretty fair to say that in his absence, we've learned more about the value of Milan Michalek. He's sorely missed on this club.

He has been missed lately, but that still doesn't mean he's worth $4M. You don't need to spend that kind of dough to get an average 3rd liner, even on the open market.

You can say whatever figure = 2.top four UFA D and whatever but the reality is we have to find players who want to play here and when we do on those markets we have to sign contracts that will hurt us down the road. The reason Murray didn't sign an older top 4 guy was to ensure we can keep guys like Hoffman.

Better to sign good players to contracts that will hurt us 3 years down the road.... instead of handing out contracts that hurt us immediately (Greening, Cowen, Michalek, Chiasson, Fraser, Kostka, Mullen, Stortini).


The reality is that there are top 4 defensemen available every summer to be signed. And the point is that it's better to overpay LEGITIMATE players (such as these top 4 D) by $500K than it is to overpay plugs, slugs and thugs.

Then, there is also the trade route.


Look, I'm just tired of excuses. The reason we didn't sign a top 4 D is so we could give $2M to Hoffman? Come FQL... I like you but that's just a lame excuse. As shown, there is $19.1M being "wasted" so to speak... how about we cut into that money instead of having to decide between Hoffman and a top 4 D?



$19M.... we can't say that money has been managed properly. I don't see the harm in admitting that. I don't understand the need to make excuses.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The sad thing is, we aren't wasting our top players' prime.

We are wasting the prime years of the best player in the NHL.

With that being said, IMO Ottawa is not in danger... our best players imo are just reaching their best parts of their careers like:

Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, Turris, Zibanejad, Ryan, Ceci, Methot(kind of), Pageau, Smith, Lazar

What we need to do is similar to what Chicago did, compete when Karlsson is 26/27 and stay competing into his early 30's

That means next year we make serious strides to be East contenders(which is basically Cup contenders) and 2 years from now we are favorites and serious contenders overall.

I think that's manageable. We just need to invest extremely wisely right now in both drafting and trading.

We have: Neil, Phillips, Wier, Chiasson coming off the books or RFAs

They will likely all leave and balance off with raises to Hoffman, Ceci, Wideman and couple of RFAs.

That means we will have little wiggle room again thus we need to spend a little more next year before things get crazy. Moving Cowen a year early would be very ideal.

The year after that Greening, Michalek, Cowen coming off books but Zibby, Pageau and Lazar due for raises.

Also, the most important thing is Anderson is in compete mode now, we need to compete by next year.

Therefore goals for this deadline/Summer:

1) Acquire top 4 defender
2) Dump Cowen and Greening and sign another top 4 in off-season or top 6.
3) Compete next year

Actually......

You look at teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago when they won their Cups...their main stars were well under 27.

Nowadays, buy tend to peak earlier...in some cases, as early as 22-24. And a good number are starting to noticeably decline around 28-29.

We can't bank on Karlsson playing like this at 30, let alone beyond 30.

 

[albator71]

We need all 23 players to buy in in playing a good defensive game, yes we seriously lack depth at D no question about that but our forwards needs to have a better work ethic on playing defense and help out our D more. Too many times the gap between our forwards and D is too big, how many times those our D as the puck in their zone and our forward are already in the neutral zone. Our forwards needs to stay in the D zone longer and support our D and give them a target for shorter passes to come out the D zone.

The scary part is that its been like this for the past 3-4 years and nothing has change, they are not improving on the defensive part of the game, and this year its the worst it has been for a long time, its like they dont give a crap about making an effort playing good defensive hockey in their own zone. Its so frustrating as a fan to watch this because we have some very good players on this team and when they want to play the game the right way, they are one the best team in the league, unfortunately its doesnt happen often.

Happy Holidays to all my Sens brothers and sisters.

 

[God Says No]

I think it's pretty fair to say that in his absence, we've learned more about the value of Milan Michalek. He's sorely missed on this club.

I'd have to disagree. He's been missed to a certain degree, but sorely missed? In what way? I just don't see it.

You can say whatever figure = 2.top four UFA D and whatever but the reality is we have to find players who want to play here and when we do on those markets we have to sign contracts that will hurt us down the road. The reason Murray didn't sign an older top 4 guy was to ensure we can keep guys like Hoffman.

Not sure I follow your argument as it pertains to Hoffman. He's still not signed past this year, so you can't have an argument that we didn't sign anyone to keep him. He might price himself out of Ottawa no matter who we have on the books.

As for a FA not coming here, you will have to overpay. I'm willing to overpay to get a top 4 D, as it looks like this will be the only way to get one.

 

[Rodzilla]

One of my biggest wish is to see the Senators go on another run, but let's be real here we aren't going to with that d group and our depth. I was at the Panthers game the other night and man, we got embarassed yet again, not talking on the scoreboard but overall. Our D is trash, seriously, when 65 is on we clear the zone but we have a really hard time establishing pressure in the offensive zone. Other teams get out quickly, us on the other hand are stuck in our zone for huge stretches.


Part of that is our abysymal defense, part of that is our 3rd 4th line forwards who can't carry the puck and they chip it center ice for the other team to come back right in. Shots aren't always the story but when you get outshot each game there's a problem.


Murray doesn't look like he's able to find a fit for our defense. As long as we keep this d group we aren't going anywhere. Panthers and MTL games lately are a eye opener

 

[Back in Black]

Murray doesn't look like he's able to find a fit for our defense. As long as we keep this d group we aren't going anywhere.

Don’t worry, it’s all part of the brilliant rebuild plan. Stay tuned!

MERRY XMAS EVERYONE!

 

[topshelf15]

Michalek - $4,000,000
Cowen - $3,700,000
Greening - $2,750,000
Wiercioch - $2,700,000
Phillips - $2,500,000
Neil - $1,500,000
Chiasson - $1,200,000
Kostka - $300,000 (AHL Salary)
Stortini - $175,000 (AHL Salary)
Mullen - $150,000 (AHL Salary)
Fraser - $125,000 (AHL Salary)
Total: $19,100,000

Lots of teams have dead money or bad contracts ,our problem is management uses it as an excuse .The money in for money out crap shouldnt be an issue for us .In making deals to get better

 

[sens2k9]

pro-tip: Ottawa is cheap. Go to a sens game and look around. Half the crowd won't have any Sens merchandise on. In fact, they likely don't even own any. So how do you expect an owner in a small market whose fans barely support the team (yes, buying merchandise counts as support)to spend to the cap? Especially when he's paying out salaries in USD and getting money in from fans in CDN?
SO if you're waiting for Melnyk to spend to the cap and build around Karlsson.... you might be waiting for a while.

 

[topshelf15]

pro-tip: Ottawa is cheap. Go to a sens game and look around. Half the crowd won't have any Sens merchandise on. In fact, they likely don't even own any. So how do you expect an owner in a small market whose fans barely support the team (yes, buying merchandise counts as support)to spend to the cap? Especially when he's paying out salaries in USD and getting money in from fans in CDN?
SO if you're waiting for Melnyk to spend to the cap and build around Karlsson.... you might be waiting for a while.

Yeah this is a load of BS ,if EM is so hard done by because he owns the team .Maybe he should sell it then ,maybe then we would get an owner commited to winning and not just the bottom line .I havent seen him do much to build a winner here.Yet he expects us to invest our entertainment budget fully to him,and he offers very little in return

 

[Very Stable Genius]

pro-tip: Ottawa is cheap. Go to a sens game and look around. Half the crowd won't have any Sens merchandise on. In fact, they likely don't even own any. So how do you expect an owner in a small market whose fans barely support the team (yes, buying merchandise counts as support)to spend to the cap? Especially when he's paying out salaries in USD and getting money in from fans in CDN?
SO if you're waiting for Melnyk to spend to the cap and build around Karlsson.... you might be waiting for a while.

Lol he is worth a BILLION DOLLARS, owning for all intents and purposes a vanity purchase. Owning a sports team is not about the bottom line, it's about saying "I own a ****ing sports team." If he doesn't want to spend money on it fine, then sell it. You can still be the "biggest Sens fan in the world" and not own the franchise Eugene. I would think being a fan would make him realize we are stuck in a giant mediocrity cycle.

 

[Micklebot]

Michalek - $4,000,000
Cowen - $3,700,000
Greening - $2,750,000
Wiercioch - $2,700,000
Phillips - $2,500,000
Neil - $1,500,000
Chiasson - $1,200,000
Kostka - $300,000 (AHL Salary)
Stortini - $175,000 (AHL Salary)
Mullen - $150,000 (AHL Salary)
Fraser - $125,000 (AHL Salary)
Total: $19,100,000

From what I've read and seen, Kostka has been good for Bingo, who was really counting on Wikstrand to be down there. We've taken out their top defender and our planed replacement pulled the parachute after all the other replacement options had found other teams.

Phillips is probably an insurance claim, so no biggy there.

Chiasson and Neil are fine relative to their salaries. Fraser was a last minute pickup because of Wikstrand, so options were very limited at the time.

And Michalek would be a big help right now for the big club, we actually really miss him imo.

Cowen, Greening, and Phillips are the ones that hurt the most (also, I find it funny that you include Wier when not too long ago you were one of his biggest supporters if memory serves).

 

[Kellogs]

pro-tip: Ottawa is cheap. Go to a sens game and look around. Half the crowd won't have any Sens merchandise on. In fact, they likely don't even own any. So how do you expect an owner in a small market whose fans barely support the team (yes, buying merchandise counts as support)to spend to the cap? Especially when he's paying out salaries in USD and getting money in from fans in CDN?
SO if you're waiting for Melnyk to spend to the cap and build around Karlsson.... you might be waiting for a while.

IIRC, merchandise revenues do not go directly to the team, it goes to the NHL which takes a cut, and the rest is distributed evenly to the teams. So money wise spending more by Ottawa fans won't make a significant impact on the finances of the team. Perception wise, I agree though that it doesn't look good.

Yeah this is a load of BS ,if EM is so hard done by because he owns the team .Maybe he should sell it then ,maybe then we would get an owner commited to winning and not just the bottom line .I havent seen him do much to build a winner here.Yet he expects us to invest our entertainment budget fully to him,and he offers very little in return

Every owner is committed to the bottom line. None of them got rich by losing tens of millions of dollars every year. Ottawa was always a small market team. The introduction of the cap in 2005 masked that fact by bringing league wide salaries in line with what the Sens were spending at the time. The economics will not change drastically by bringing in a new owner.

Lol he is worth a BILLION DOLLARS, owning for all intents and purposes a vanity purchase. Owning a sports team is not about the bottom line, it's about saying "I own a ****ing sports team." If he doesn't want to spend money on it fine, then sell it. You can still be the "biggest Sens fan in the world" and not own the franchise Eugene. I would think being a fan would make him realize we are stuck in a giant mediocrity cycle.

And that makes him one of the poorest NHL owners in a small NHL market. Owning teams is generally more than a vanity project. It's often used as leverage for other money making ventures, and at the end of the day it still needs to be a viable business entity. If that wasn't the case, then people wouldn't be clamoring to have the Coyotes move all the time because at the end of the day it would simply be a vanity project for those owners and the city of Glendale.