Do any of the Finnish experts know why Ossi Louhivaara didn't make it? I am not sure when he was born exactly but even if he was elegible to be in the WJCs, would he have a chance of making the team?
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TORRUS said:
I like those names too. I know that in your ears they SOUND funny, but I like them also because they actually mean something and are nature-related. Very soothing names.
Mäntymaa (mänty = pine tree; maa = land, earth, soil) = Pineland
Honkaheimo (honka = also pine tree; heimo = tribe) = Pinetribe
Marjamäki (marja = berry; mäki = hill) = Berryhill
Korpikoski (korpi = backwoods; koski = rapid, falls) = Backwoods' falls
Eloranta (elo = life, crop; ranta = beach, shore) = Cropshore
Padawan
Former power tripper
Ossi is vintage 1983 so he is two years too old. If he woud have been eligible to the team, he would have been there imo.Cup2Sens said:
Ipa said:I like those names too. I know that in your ears they SOUND funny, but I like them also because they actually mean something and are nature-related. Very soothing names.
Mäntymaa (mänty = pine tree; maa = land, earth, soil) = Pineland
Honkaheimo (honka = also pine tree; heimo = tribe) = Pinetribe
Marjamäki (marja = berry; mäki = hill) = Berryhill
Korpikoski (korpi = backwoods; koski = rapid, falls) = Backwoods' falls
Eloranta (elo = life, crop; ranta = beach, shore) = Cropshore
HA, great! Very interesting! Thanks!
Know Your Enemy
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Ipa said:I like those names too. I know that in your ears they SOUND funny, but I like them also because they actually mean something and are nature-related. Very soothing names.
Mäntymaa (mänty = pine tree; maa = land, earth, soil) = Pineland
Honkaheimo (honka = also pine tree; heimo = tribe) = Pinetribe
Marjamäki (marja = berry; mäki = hill) = Berryhill
Korpikoski (korpi = backwoods; koski = rapid, falls) = Backwoods' falls
Eloranta (elo = life, crop; ranta = beach, shore) = Cropshore
Tell me more! Tell me more!
mattihp
Registered User
Slay
Registered User
Ipa said:I like those names too. I know that in your ears they SOUND funny, but I like them also because they actually mean something and are nature-related. Very soothing names.
Mäntymaa (mänty = pine tree; maa = land, earth, soil) = Pineland
Honkaheimo (honka = also pine tree; heimo = tribe) = Pinetribe
Marjamäki (marja = berry; mäki = hill) = Berryhill
Korpikoski (korpi = backwoods; koski = rapid, falls) = Backwoods' falls
Eloranta (elo = life, crop; ranta = beach, shore) = Cropshore
Some similar structure have some Ukranian surnames, for example:
Vinokur means "Wine Smoker" (vino = wine, kur(it') = smoking)
Vernidub means "Give Back An Oak" (verni = give back, dub = oak)
Podoprigora means "Prop Up A Mountain" (podopri = prop up, gora = mountain)
Teni-Tolkay means "Pull-Push" (teni = pull, tolkay = push)
I am serious!
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..teni-tolkay, in gaelic, toll means a hole, but in many languages tolk (ore forms of it) means a messenger or transformer or like in finnish (tulkki) a translator je.. interesting it is a word which has puzzled me..
anyway, yes Finnish is the language of the ancient mammoth hunters, it is a very interesting language I think if you study the history of languages you van find clues that suggest that it is in fact one of the oldest european languages along with Greek, bask (spelling) and gaelic. About 5000 thousand years ago north Europe was devidead into 2 areas western and eastern, the boarder being somewhere around modern holland, the western part spoke bask, and the easterns some form of Finnish, and these people were hunters, but when the agriculkture spread from the south .. got to go
anyway, yes Finnish is the language of the ancient mammoth hunters, it is a very interesting language I think if you study the history of languages you van find clues that suggest that it is in fact one of the oldest european languages along with Greek, bask (spelling) and gaelic. About 5000 thousand years ago north Europe was devidead into 2 areas western and eastern, the boarder being somewhere around modern holland, the western part spoke bask, and the easterns some form of Finnish, and these people were hunters, but when the agriculkture spread from the south .. got to go
kdazzad said:
That has got to be the weirdest piece of linguistics I've ever heard. Yet, I expected nothing closer to the ordinary of you, dazzad.
Back on topic, injury woes for Finland. Lauri Tukonen (elbow) is very likely to recover properly in time and Ville Mäntymaa (finger) more so than not, but Valtteri Tenkanen's renewed knee injury will all but surely keep him home. A considerable loss for the team, that.
mattihp
Registered User
Nabb Laituri said:That has got to be the weirdest piece of linguistics I've ever heard. Yet, I expected nothing closer to the ordinary of you, dazzad.
QUOTE]
yep, yep, im no ordinary bloke agreed, but really I'm serious, you should read Kalevi Wiik's Eurooppalaisten juuret .. it has some interesting stuff in it ..
so basically during the last ice age, people in Europe lived in three refuges where the climate was a bit more bearable: the Iberian (in spain), the Balkan, and the Ukrainian refuge.
The people in the iberian refuge it is thought spoke basque, and were hunters and when the climate started to warm, moved north (france), the people in the Ukrainian refuge were also hunters, and it is thought spoked some sort of finnougrian language, they also moved north, so that they covered germany and scandinavia, the people in the Balkan refuge spoked indoeuropean language, and they were farmers and at first stayed put, but soon as the climate warmed up even more and it became possible to start farming even norther these people in the balkan refused also started move nothfast, and when they became to the areas which were populated with basque speaking darker race or finnougrian speaking lighter people theuy became thus with trhe help of their more advanced culture ie weapons and so on, the domonating population of these areas in the north and thusthey were the dominating people the original inhabitantsa which were originally hunters, learned farming from these new peoples who spoke indoeuropean, and as they were the 'better' people, the hunters learned their language, and through years and generations forgot their own original language ..
I think these new theories explain a lot of weird stuff like why the finns speak so weird language compared to other Europeans and scandinavians though they are genetically a kin, for example Finns are not genetically comparable to the sami people though they are both finnougrian languages, actually the sami people are genetically related to the basques and spaniards! .. and this explained so that the forfathers of the sami people 4-3000 years ago migrated from spain to scandinavia and changed their original basque language to a finnougrian language through years .. like the scandinavians changed their finnougrian language to germanic (indo-european language) .., though not all Swedish linguistics agree
.., but i think it is interesting theory
http://www.wiik.fi/kalevi/juuret/
here is something in english
http://www.wiik.fi/kalevi/juuret/tilauscd.htm
The people in the iberian refuge it is thought spoke basque, and were hunters and when the climate started to warm, moved north (france), the people in the Ukrainian refuge were also hunters, and it is thought spoked some sort of finnougrian language, they also moved north, so that they covered germany and scandinavia, the people in the Balkan refuge spoked indoeuropean language, and they were farmers and at first stayed put, but soon as the climate warmed up even more and it became possible to start farming even norther these people in the balkan refused also started move nothfast, and when they became to the areas which were populated with basque speaking darker race or finnougrian speaking lighter people theuy became thus with trhe help of their more advanced culture ie weapons and so on, the domonating population of these areas in the north and thusthey were the dominating people the original inhabitantsa which were originally hunters, learned farming from these new peoples who spoke indoeuropean, and as they were the 'better' people, the hunters learned their language, and through years and generations forgot their own original language ..
I think these new theories explain a lot of weird stuff like why the finns speak so weird language compared to other Europeans and scandinavians though they are genetically a kin, for example Finns are not genetically comparable to the sami people though they are both finnougrian languages, actually the sami people are genetically related to the basques and spaniards! .. and this explained so that the forfathers of the sami people 4-3000 years ago migrated from spain to scandinavia and changed their original basque language to a finnougrian language through years .. like the scandinavians changed their finnougrian language to germanic (indo-european language) .., though not all Swedish linguistics agree
.., but i think it is interesting theoryhttp://www.wiik.fi/kalevi/juuret/
here is something in english
http://www.wiik.fi/kalevi/juuret/tilauscd.htm
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Wasn't it so that Finns and Basque's are not European, scientifically.
Because they/we were in europe before the indo-europeans, who are scientifically called Europeans, arrived.
Because they/we were in europe before the indo-europeans, who are scientifically called Europeans, arrived.
mattihp
Registered User
i don't think you can really say so, because we must remember the difference between language and genetics .. in the old days it was thought that those two go hAND IJN HAND but the modern philology puts more emphasis on the fact that people , tribes, nations do actually change their language, though thru migrations some o them might get wiped out, by the new arrivals but certainly, some blend with the nwcomers..
but certainly this new theory turns things quite around as it was not too long thought,.. and still generally thought in comprehensive .. that Finns migrated 2-3000 thousand years ago from the Urals onto these marshes by the Baltic, but these new theories turn things quite around .. je
and in the 19th century people in europe thought that finns were mongols, and there is a report from this german scientist, who when visiting finland was shocked do find out that the people were indeed blondes..
http://www.wiik.fi/kalevi/juuret/atlasdemo.pdf
http://www.kaltio.fi/index.php?53
"Jääkauden maksimin jälkeen muodostui periglasiaaliselle (jäätikön ympäröimälle) vyöhykkeelle uusia asutuskeskittymiä, jotka olivat lähtöisin sekä läntisestä refugiumista eli baskilaisesta että ukrainalaisesta eli siis suomalaisesta. Näiden lisäksi syntyi keskiseen Eurooppaan kolmas alue, joka näyttäisi ulottuneen aina Itämeren partaalle. Tämän todistaa se, että germaanisissa kielissä on sanastossa noin 30 % ainesta, jota ei voi johtaa baskilaiseen eikä suomalais-ugrilaiseen ryhmään. Kutsun tätä seuraavassa X-kansaksi, mutta kukaan ei voine väittää mitään sen vaiheista varhaiskaudella lisäksi tulee ottaa huomioon hyvin vähän tunnettu pohjoisen ja koillisen Venäjän asutus, jolla näyttäisivät olevan paleoliittiset hyvinkin vanhat juuret.
Ja näin tulemme suomalais-ugrilaisuuden perimmäisten kysymysten pariin. Koskaan ei ole voitu pitävästi osoittaa muuttoliikettä idästä länteen. Ei ole voitu osoittaa ekspansiokeskusta, ei muuttoreittejä, ei työntäviä eikä puoleensa vetäviä tekijöitä. Muutto Volgan mutkasta länteen on siis myytti. Suomalais-ugrilainen maailma perustui kyllä muuttoliikeeseen, mutta se tapahtui edellä mainitun etelä - pohjoinen suuntaisen liikkeen ohella lännestä itään - siis juuri päinvastaisessa järjestyksessä kuin perinteellinen käsitys antaa ymmärtää. "
"Brommen kulttuurissa on arvoituksellista sen etnisyys. Ensinnäkin on todettava, että kun Brommen kulttuuri levisi itään alueille, jotka myöhemmin olivat selvästi suomalaisia, niin ei ole havaittavissa jälkeäkään kielikonfliktista. Jo pelkästään tämä pakottaa arvioimaan Brommen kulttuuria ennen muuta suomalaiseksi.. Vasta aivan äsken saadut - itse asiassa tänä vuonna 2002 - virolaisen Ago Künnapin tutkimustulokset pakottavat muuttamaan varhaisempia käsityksiä. Künnap on löytänyt saamesta baskilaisen substraatin. Jos nyt tämä hypoteesi osoittautuu paikkansa pitäväksi, niin sillä on suuri merkitys sen takia, että genetiikan puolella on olemassa vastine. Saamelaisten mitokondriaalisessa DNA:ssa on nimittäin yhä uudelleen tavattu baskilainen elementti. Lukuisat geneetikot ja kielentutkijat ovat selittäneet sen virhetulkinnaksi. Substraatin löytymisen jälkeen virhetulkinnan mahdollisuus käy entistä epävarmemmaksi. Substraatti on nähdäkseni voitu saada ennen muuta Hampurin / Ahrensburgin kulttuurin kautta."
"Oululainen antropologi Markku Niskanen (vuodesta 1997 alkaen) on kiistattomasti osoittanut, että itämerensuomalaiset edustavat sitä kallon muotoa, joka oli ominainen Cro Magnonin ihmiselle, kun hän saapui Eurooppaan noin 40.000 vuotta sitten. Toisin sanoen suomalaiset ja heidän lähisukulaisensa ovat juuri näitä vanhaeurooppalaisia. Itämerensuomalaisissa on säilynyt tähän päivään asti eräitä muitakin vanhakantaisia piirteitä, joista mainittakoon korkeat poskipäät (niistä prof. Milton Nuñezilla on tapana huomauttaa). Tämä taas johtuu siitä, että etelässä siirryttiin aikaisemmin maanviljelyskulttuurin myötä puuronsyöjiksi, eikä ihminen enää tarvinnut suuria purulihasten kiinnityspintoja. Kun itämerensuomalaiset ovat vielä muutaman tuhannen vuoden ajan syöneet puuroa, on odotettavissa, että korkeat poskipäätkin katoavat" .. vaan toisaalta on myös bushmanni/aboriginaali head bump..
but certainly this new theory turns things quite around as it was not too long thought,.. and still generally thought in comprehensive .. that Finns migrated 2-3000 thousand years ago from the Urals onto these marshes by the Baltic, but these new theories turn things quite around .. je
and in the 19th century people in europe thought that finns were mongols, and there is a report from this german scientist, who when visiting finland was shocked do find out that the people were indeed blondes..
http://www.wiik.fi/kalevi/juuret/atlasdemo.pdf
http://www.kaltio.fi/index.php?53
"Jääkauden maksimin jälkeen muodostui periglasiaaliselle (jäätikön ympäröimälle) vyöhykkeelle uusia asutuskeskittymiä, jotka olivat lähtöisin sekä läntisestä refugiumista eli baskilaisesta että ukrainalaisesta eli siis suomalaisesta. Näiden lisäksi syntyi keskiseen Eurooppaan kolmas alue, joka näyttäisi ulottuneen aina Itämeren partaalle. Tämän todistaa se, että germaanisissa kielissä on sanastossa noin 30 % ainesta, jota ei voi johtaa baskilaiseen eikä suomalais-ugrilaiseen ryhmään. Kutsun tätä seuraavassa X-kansaksi, mutta kukaan ei voine väittää mitään sen vaiheista varhaiskaudella lisäksi tulee ottaa huomioon hyvin vähän tunnettu pohjoisen ja koillisen Venäjän asutus, jolla näyttäisivät olevan paleoliittiset hyvinkin vanhat juuret.
Ja näin tulemme suomalais-ugrilaisuuden perimmäisten kysymysten pariin. Koskaan ei ole voitu pitävästi osoittaa muuttoliikettä idästä länteen. Ei ole voitu osoittaa ekspansiokeskusta, ei muuttoreittejä, ei työntäviä eikä puoleensa vetäviä tekijöitä. Muutto Volgan mutkasta länteen on siis myytti. Suomalais-ugrilainen maailma perustui kyllä muuttoliikeeseen, mutta se tapahtui edellä mainitun etelä - pohjoinen suuntaisen liikkeen ohella lännestä itään - siis juuri päinvastaisessa järjestyksessä kuin perinteellinen käsitys antaa ymmärtää. "
"Brommen kulttuurissa on arvoituksellista sen etnisyys. Ensinnäkin on todettava, että kun Brommen kulttuuri levisi itään alueille, jotka myöhemmin olivat selvästi suomalaisia, niin ei ole havaittavissa jälkeäkään kielikonfliktista. Jo pelkästään tämä pakottaa arvioimaan Brommen kulttuuria ennen muuta suomalaiseksi.. Vasta aivan äsken saadut - itse asiassa tänä vuonna 2002 - virolaisen Ago Künnapin tutkimustulokset pakottavat muuttamaan varhaisempia käsityksiä. Künnap on löytänyt saamesta baskilaisen substraatin. Jos nyt tämä hypoteesi osoittautuu paikkansa pitäväksi, niin sillä on suuri merkitys sen takia, että genetiikan puolella on olemassa vastine. Saamelaisten mitokondriaalisessa DNA:ssa on nimittäin yhä uudelleen tavattu baskilainen elementti. Lukuisat geneetikot ja kielentutkijat ovat selittäneet sen virhetulkinnaksi. Substraatin löytymisen jälkeen virhetulkinnan mahdollisuus käy entistä epävarmemmaksi. Substraatti on nähdäkseni voitu saada ennen muuta Hampurin / Ahrensburgin kulttuurin kautta."
"Oululainen antropologi Markku Niskanen (vuodesta 1997 alkaen) on kiistattomasti osoittanut, että itämerensuomalaiset edustavat sitä kallon muotoa, joka oli ominainen Cro Magnonin ihmiselle, kun hän saapui Eurooppaan noin 40.000 vuotta sitten. Toisin sanoen suomalaiset ja heidän lähisukulaisensa ovat juuri näitä vanhaeurooppalaisia. Itämerensuomalaisissa on säilynyt tähän päivään asti eräitä muitakin vanhakantaisia piirteitä, joista mainittakoon korkeat poskipäät (niistä prof. Milton Nuñezilla on tapana huomauttaa). Tämä taas johtuu siitä, että etelässä siirryttiin aikaisemmin maanviljelyskulttuurin myötä puuronsyöjiksi, eikä ihminen enää tarvinnut suuria purulihasten kiinnityspintoja. Kun itämerensuomalaiset ovat vielä muutaman tuhannen vuoden ajan syöneet puuroa, on odotettavissa, että korkeat poskipäätkin katoavat" .. vaan toisaalta on myös bushmanni/aboriginaali head bump..
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mattihp
Registered User
I'd also like to point out that the people of Finland, way into the 1900s were seen not as one people, but at least five different people.
The tavasts/hämäläiset who are related to the estonians.
The Finnish lapps who are somewhat related to moving-tavasts, but also with a large part being related to other peoples, the Kainuu and the Sápmi-lapps.
The Newlanders which consist of both in-moved karelians, finnish-ingorians and also some tavasts, much mixture with alp-germans, swedes and some russians.
The Kainuus (kainuulaiset, Qwaans, Kwäner) of whose heritage is not much known.
Sápmi-lapps. At first thought to be related to other finns, but later was not as sure. Shares language group with the finns, probably because one of the peoples (either a group of finns, or the sápmis) took on the language of the other group.
The tavasts/hämäläiset who are related to the estonians.
The Finnish lapps who are somewhat related to moving-tavasts, but also with a large part being related to other peoples, the Kainuu and the Sápmi-lapps.
The Newlanders which consist of both in-moved karelians, finnish-ingorians and also some tavasts, much mixture with alp-germans, swedes and some russians.
The Kainuus (kainuulaiset, Qwaans, Kwäner) of whose heritage is not much known.
Sápmi-lapps. At first thought to be related to other finns, but later was not as sure. Shares language group with the finns, probably because one of the peoples (either a group of finns, or the sápmis) took on the language of the other group.
OFF COURSE I HAVE TO SAY THAT THERE are many who don't agree with these new theories of Wiik and i do no t posses the knowledge to say wheather they are on the right or on the WRONg, but very interesting they are ..
Finns along with the sami were the last barbarians/Pagans of the Europe (until the Swede King Erik decided to come robbingrapingburning 1155 in the name of the christ, but it mist be remembered that though these expeditions, many people kept their original beliefs way until 17th and 18th century ..
I kinda feel that the true form of independence .. Finns had no kings, no culture, ..actually it was the swedes who invented Finlamd (..Tacitus' Germania (a book about the northern people)was the first historical book which mentioned FENNI , written 40 AD, I think a rather funny description),.. but in my mind the true itsenäisyys independence is the independence of the individual .. as in though there never was a state/kingdom of Finland duringthe 11th or 12th centuries, but I think the people in their forests were of more independent than their counterparts in European kingdoms..
Finns along with the sami were the last barbarians/Pagans of the Europe (until the Swede King Erik decided to come robbingrapingburning 1155 in the name of the christ, but it mist be remembered that though these expeditions, many people kept their original beliefs way until 17th and 18th century ..
I kinda feel that the true form of independence .. Finns had no kings, no culture, ..actually it was the swedes who invented Finlamd (..Tacitus' Germania (a book about the northern people)was the first historical book which mentioned FENNI , written 40 AD, I think a rather funny description),.. but in my mind the true itsenäisyys independence is the independence of the individual .. as in though there never was a state/kingdom of Finland duringthe 11th or 12th centuries, but I think the people in their forests were of more independent than their counterparts in European kingdoms..
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mattihp
Registered User
I'd also like to add that the word "Fenni" which was first used by the romans, means something along the lines of "people who move around"
mattihp
Registered User
mattihp
Registered User
Why is there no petr kontiola? To important to his team?
At the beginning of the year he wa playing with nieminen on the 1st line and nieminen said he was the best young finnish player voi perkele
What's ruutu mean?
Sori, en puhu suomea
At the beginning of the year he wa playing with nieminen on the 1st line and nieminen said he was the best young finnish player voi perkele
What's ruutu mean?
Sori, en puhu suomea
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