GDT: TB @ Car

[Unsustainable]

by the way, wallmark looks dominant so far in the ahl. i'd love to see him fairly soon in raleigh

As dominant as Boychuk

 

[Joe McGrath]

As dominant as Boychuk

Or Derek Ryan. Except he was playing Canadian college hockey at Wallmark’s age.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The season in question (12-13) was the lockout. Semin and Staal were PPG and better, respectively.

That was the last time the Hurricanes iced a better offensive team than what we had last year — because that was when we had two top offensive players performing near the peak of their capacity*.

I guess they were better, but marginally better for 1/2 of a season. They were a worse ranked team (in terms of GF/GP). It was basically a 1 line team.

Canes 12/13: 2.65 G/GP = 26th in the NHL in scoring for 48 games.
Canes 16/17: 2.59 G/GP = 21st in the NHL in scoring for 82 games.

And I still contend that lockout season pretty fluky year and the following season was more representative of the talent on that team. Staal was on a 91 point pace even though his prior 4 season ranged from 70-75 and the following was 61. Semin was on an 82 point pace, even though the prior 2 seasons he had 54 points and the following season he had 44. Tlusty scored 23 goals in 48 games and never in his career scored 20 for a full season.

Thus my point. Losing Staal and Semin and having more overall talent across the top 9 means the this team should be a better offensive team than what that team had back then because back then. It took a fluky 1/2 year from 1 line to even marginally outscore last year's Canes (and their NHL ranking for GF/GP was better than that team).

Anyhow, I don't think we have the level of talent to "run and gun" though, so not disagreeing with you on that. I'm just not sure Peters gets the most out of them offensively though.

 

[Stickpucker]

To put this into sharper relief:

Last season after 7 games: 21 GF, 26 GA = -5 differential
This season after 7 games: 16 GF, 19 GA = -3 differential
* excluding ENGs

It's not a ton of progress, but it's progress, and cutting out 7 GA in 7 games is a pretty huge difference.

So our offense has gotten incrementally worse?

 

[My Special Purpose]

Just checking in to see how we all feel after basically losing 2-1 to the best team in the NHL...

...oh, and we're already out of the playoffs on October 24th, are we?

People. There's a reason this team has the best record and goal differential in the league.

****ing relax.

Let me ask you this, do you think the Canes played to their potential last night?

 

[My Special Purpose]

This complaint seems to be just picking something to fit the narrative. He didn't do more to stop an EN goal from a guy with an open shot? Really? If you want to say Hanifin isn't playing well or is inconsistent or you think he should be moved for a top forward, that is a perfectly fine position to take, but this is just looking for something.

Please take a look at the goal in the highlights, specifically looking at Hanifin, who is back protecting the goal. Then consider the situation, 2:30 to go, down one goal, and tell me you think Hanifin made an NHL-level play. If that's any of our other defensemen, do you think it happens any differently? Please just watch and let me know.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I guess they were better, but marginally better for 1/2 of a season. They were a worse ranked team (in terms of GF/GP). It was basically a 1 line team.

Canes 12/13: 2.65 G/GP = 26th in the NHL in scoring for 48 games.
Canes 16/17: 2.59 G/GP = 21st in the NHL in scoring for 82 games.

Then we go back yet another season to find a better offensive team than last year?

So we’re back to 2011/12... that’s Paul Maurice era. I think this kind of proves the point that our offensive results under Peters, relative to talent level, have not been worse than what we got under other coaches.

Thus my point. Losing Staal and Semin and having more overall talent across the top 9 means the this team should be a better offensive team than what that team had back then because back then.

I know we’d all like to believe so, but the versions of... everyone other than Skinner... that we’re seeing right now are not justifying that belief.

 

[My Special Purpose]

think we tried that for a game or two and both pairs looked even worse than hanifin-faulk does now

Why is that the only option? Why isn't this an option?

Slavin-Pesce
Fleury-Faulk
Hanifin-JVR

 

[My Special Purpose]

Your daily reminder that Noah Hanifin is 20 years old.

Do you want us to list the defensemen 20-and-under who are making Hanifin look like a college player right now? Is there a reason we can't expect more from a No. 5 overall pick in his third season, who's strength is supposed to be offensive creativity and skating? So he's 20. Sounds like yet another excuse to me.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Then we go back yet another season to find a better offensive team than last year?

So we’re back to 2011/12... that’s Paul Maurice era. I think this kind of proves the point that our offensive results under Peters, relative to talent level, have not been worse than what we got under other coaches.

Impossible to prove since the players aren't the same. I'd argue our talent level is better now overall (as I already stated), but it's also impossible to prove that when many variables (players, coaches, NHL) change. There are many examples where a coaching change and changing the style of play made a huge difference. Look at what Minnesota did with a coaching change. They went from a defensive team that didn't score much to one of the top scoring team in the league. Eric and Jordan both mentioned how there was more offensive opportunity, more up and down in Minn. Look at LA after changing coaches. Gone from boring, low scoring team to one of the top scoring teams this year (small sample size, but I watched them vs. TOR and they are way more aggressive).

Anyhow, I'm getting off track. I do NOT think this team is super talented up front and never said as much. I was simply discussing your point that we lost Staal and Semin and haven't replaced them. Did we replace them individually 1 for 1 (particularly Eric)? No, but we upgraded the rest of the roster significantly upgraded, both offensively and defensively, that IMO, there is a net gain.

I know we’d all like to believe so, but the versions of... everyone other than Skinner... that we’re seeing right now are not justifying that belief.

It's not about believing so. We are 7 games into the season which is a statistically insignificant sample size. I can look at the players from last year over 82 games and the addition of Justin Williams to make that assessment. Gerbe, Dwyer, Nash, Bowman, Tlusty, etc.. are not as good offensively as Aho, TT, Lindholm, Stempniak (who is injured). It's not even debatable. There is no doubt the team is struggling offensively right now, but it is very reasonable to believe that they should be better than they were last year.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Why is that the only option? Why isn't this an option?

Slavin-Pesce
Fleury-Faulk
Hanifin-TVR

The games I watched, other than opening night, I don't think our d-pairings have been an issue, but I have only caught about 1/2 of the games (didn't see Dallas for instance, so can't comment). I don't think there's much harm in trying the pairings you listed above, and I'm guessing he will at some time. Let Slavin and Pesce play ~25 min / night then split the minutes relatively evenly between the other two pairings.

Give Hanifin and Faulk most of the PP time. Give Slavin and Pesce most of the PK time.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Do you want us to list the defensemen 20-and-under who are making Hanifin look like a college player right now? Is there a reason we can't expect more from a No. 5 overall pick in his third season, who's strength is supposed to be offensive creativity and skating? So he's 20. Sounds like yet another excuse to me.

Interestingly enough he has the same scoring stats so far as our 2013 5th overall pick.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Interestingly enough he has the same scoring stats so far as our 2013 5th overall pick.

Yeah, but Lindholm has as many points so far this October, as he does his last 3 Octobers combined. Baby steps.

 

[bluedevil58]

Technically this team kept up with one of the best teams in the NHL for 57 minutes. This is the 2nd time we have seen the team show up in the 3rd. Does our overall team game wear teams down or does this team lack motivation/ focus? I'm going to hold reservations until 15 to 20 games in.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Technically this team kept up with one of the best teams in the NHL for 57 minutes. This is the 2nd time we have seen the team show up in the 3rd. Does our overall team game wear teams down or does this team lack motivation/ focus? I'm going to hold reservations until 15 to 20 games in.

It's easier to play loose and aggressive when you are behind. Many times the leading team plays more conservative to protect a lead and the trailing team takes more chances to try to catch up. I think it has more to do with that than wearing a team down or lacking motivation/focus.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Something I just noticed. Ron Hainsey has as more points than anyone on the Carolina Hurricanes except for Skinner, who he's tied with. Granted, he's played 2 more games, but still.

 

[CandyCanes]

Something I just noticed. Ron Hainsey has as more points than anyone on the Carolina Hurricanes except for Skinner, who he's tied with. Granted, he's played 2 more games, but still.

Are you saying we should trade one of our defenseman for Hainsey? So we can then use Hainsey as our top line center, since he's outscoring all of our current centers?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Are you saying we should trade one of our defenseman for Hainsey? So we can then use Hainsey as our top line center, since he's outscoring all of our current centers?

He has scored all 6 points.

 

[vorbis]

Why is that the only option? Why isn't this an option?

Slavin-Pesce
Fleury-Faulk
Hanifin-JVR

iirc these combinations happened a couple times against TBL. can't remember if PK was involved, but I know I saw 4/27 and 5/57 pairings. Peters clearly values Fleury's steady play so far.

 

[CandyCanes]

He has scored all 6 points.

But he's scored more than Rask & Ryan combined Automatically making him a better option down the middle then those 2.

 

[cptjeff]

I think we need to re-sign Jeff Hamilton. The rest of the league will never see it coming.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Do you want us to list the defensemen 20-and-under who are making Hanifin look like a college player right now? Is there a reason we can't expect more from a No. 5 overall pick in his third season, who's strength is supposed to be offensive creativity and skating? So he's 20. Sounds like yet another excuse to me.

Who cares what other defensemen from that draft are doing? That has nothing to do with Hanifin. That kind of thinking is a great way to Seguin the kid to some other team.

And “He’s 20 years old” is an EXTREMELY good excuse for a defenseman. There have only been 22 defensemen ever, in the history of the NHL, who played as many games as Hanifin at such a young age. A third-year 20 year old barely happens in this league, and we’re sitting here complaining because he hasn’t arrived fast enough?

 

[Chrispy]

Who cares what other defensemen from that draft are doing? That has nothing to do with Hanifin. That kind of thinking is a great way to Seguin the kid to some other team.

Seguin is the most recent example, but I was thinking more of the Ruutu-Andrew Ladd trade. I liked that move at the time, but the Canes clearly gave up on Ladd too quickly and that result definitely impacts my thoughts on moving Hanifin now.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Seguin is the most recent example, but I was thinking more of the Ruutu-Andrew Ladd trade. I liked that move at the time, but the Canes clearly gave up on Ladd too quickly and that result definitely impacts my thoughts on moving Hanifin now.

An even better comparable might be Pronger, who was traded out of Hartford at this exact stage of his career.

 

[GoldiFox]

Seguin is the most recent example, but I was thinking more of the Ruutu-Andrew Ladd trade. I liked that move at the time, but the Canes clearly gave up on Ladd too quickly and that result definitely impacts my thoughts on moving Hanifin now.

Seguin actually showed promise with a 67 point season in his 2nd year. He showed 1C ability and was reportedly traded for partying. In his 3rd season Hanifin hasn't been more than a middling 3rd pairing offensive specialist outside a stretch of ~10 games when the Canes were completely out of it last year.

At this point I assume his value is too low to warrant a trade. He isn't pulling a long-term solution at 1C. Any chance that he develops into a solid 2nd pairing D is greater than trading him for a short-term bandaid or another middle-6 winger.

Canes best hope for a 1C is finding a way to sign Tavares or Turris next offseason.