Tavares vs. Pettersson

[The Winter Soldier]

I think Pettersson is the better player, but I'll take Tavares here due to more experience and leading a team for years. That's the type of player I'd want to win asap.

This is fair. Each of us can decide if experience really matters or not, it depends on the player. The Isles found out they did not need him or his supposed experience at #1C in the playoffs. Barzal stepped in first crack in the playoffs as #1C, he puts up 7 points in 8 playoff games, and Isles swept a playoff series against Crosby and Malkin no less. Something they never did with Tavares as #1C in 9 years with the Isles. Some of us choose EP due to this. Playoff experience is only an asset if a player has a history of winning in it.

 

[ToDavid]

Barzal stepped in first crack in the playoffs as #1C, he puts up 7 points in 8 playoff games, and Isles swept a playoff series against Crosby and Malkin no less.

And then what happened?

JT at least picked up a win when he took the Islanders to the second round.

 

[Dache]

Next season if Auston Matthews scores 55 goals and only 35 assists it would give him 90 points. In that hypothetical will he get criticism for not getting at least 95 points? This season he was 3rd overall in goal scoring and it was the second time he was top 3 in that category. However like I said before some people thought him scoring only 80 points didn't make him any better.

I get you’re upset because the point totals that people say he should be getting are changing, but at the same time he’s not a rookie anymore, he’s not on an elc anymore. Posters like you are comparing him to players like MacKinnon now. He has to get more and more points/goals then as the comparisons get bigger and bigger. If he scores his rookie totals that’s not worth anywhere near his current contract.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I get you’re upset because the point totals that people say he should be getting are changing, but at the same time he’s not a rookie anymore, he’s not on an elc anymore. Posters like you are comparing him to players like MacKinnon now. He has to get more and more points/goals then as the comparisons get bigger and bigger. If he scores his rookie totals that’s not worth anywhere near his current contract.

Matthews career high in a season for goals is now 47 compared to 40 in his rookie year. He also would have scored at least 50+ if all 82 games were played.

 

[Dache]

Matthews career high in a season for goals is now 47 compared to 40 in his rookie year. He also would have scored at least 50+ if all 82 games were played.

Now you’re back to goals, but if Marner is brought up it’s points. This is what I and other posters are saying. You arbitrarily decide what is more valuable. I’ve seen you post that 4 more goals was enough to make up a 30 point difference, but then between Petterrson and Marner that argument is no longer valid.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Now you’re back to goals, but if Marner is brought up it’s points. This is what I and other posters are saying. You arbitrarily decide what is more valuable. I’ve seen you post that 4 more goals was enough to make up a 30 point difference, but then between Petterrson and Marner that argument is no longer valid.

Your the one who said Matthews needs to score more goals and points as the comparisons get bigger and bigger. Matthews did exactly that this past season, because 47 goals turned out to be good for 3rd in the whole NHL and was 1 goal away from sharing the Rocket Richard with Ovechkin and Pastrnak. He also improved his points in a season to 80 and it would have been around 85 - 95 if he scored 50+ goals.

He has to get more and more points/goals then as the comparisons get bigger and bigger. If he scores his rookie totals that’s not worth anywhere near his current contract.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

And then what happened?

JT at least picked up a win when he took the Islanders to the second round.

I think you got it, they lost in the 2nd rd. Which again begs the question. If you want playoff experience in the playoffs. Don't you want a player that was your #1C for 9 years to have more experience than 1 playoff rd win, and 4 playoff rd losses and 6 years of missing the playoffs. Barzal as a #1C is atleast 1 for 1 making the playoffs, 1 and 1 in playoff round wins in his first year as a #1C. Why can't Elias Petterson do that? It's not like we are talking Sid Crosby quality experience here. It's John Tavares, if he had a history of being able to lead a team in the playoffs sure, but Leafs were also one and out with him. Give the kid EP the vote here, he was better player this year. Plus it's a young man's game now. Many young players are leaving their marks on the game.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think you got it, they lost in the 2nd rd. Which again begs the question. If you want playoff experience in the playoffs. Don't you want a player that was your #1C for 9 years to have more experience than 1 playoff rd win, and 4 playoff rd losses and 6 years of missing the playoffs. Barzal is as a #1C and atleast 1 for 1 making the playoffs, 1 and 1 in playoff round wins in his first year as a #1C. Why can't Elias Petterson do that? It's not like we are talking Sid Crosby quality experience here. It's John Tavares, if he had a history of being able to lead a team in the playoffs sure, but Leafs were also one and out with him. Give the kid EP the vote here, he was better player this year.

If Garth Snow was a better GM for the Islanders during Tavares career with them, maybe Tavares would have won more than just 1 playoff series with them.

 

[Dache]

Your the one who said Matthews needs to score more goals and points as the comparisons get bigger and bigger. Matthews did exactly that this past season, because 47 goals turned out to be good for 3rd in the whole NHL and was 1 goal away from sharing the Rocket Richard with Ovechkin and Pastrnak. He also improved his points in a season to 80 and it would have been around 85 - 95 if he scored 50+ goals.

Yes, that is what I said. 69 points as a rookie isn’t enough to get the comparisons some leaf fans were pushing and 80 this year isn’t enough for some of the comparisons you and others were making this year. His goal scoring is up and that’s great, but just being a goal scorer is not enough for the comparisons some posters try to make. Especially once AAV is involved.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If Garth Snow was a better GM for the Islanders during Tavares career with them, maybe Tavares would have won more than just 1 playoff series with them.

To quote you in another thread, if Eichel wants to be a #1C shouldn't he score 40 goals.....Funny you are using a GM excuse now when you didn't allow for the same argument in that thread. Your arguments change like the wind. Regardless, this doesn't change the facts Tavares was never able to lead a team more than 1 playoff win in 9 years on the Island, and how about the Leafs? They have hockey's a great GM I have heard you say in Dubas, same story 1 and out. JT is starting to run out of excuses. There is nothing wrong in picking Petterson, if Barzal can do it. I am sure a talented kid like EP can also.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

And then what happened?

JT at least picked up a win when he took the Islanders to the second round.

Didn't Barzal also picked up a win ?

Unless you meant that the Isles won a game during the second round.

Yoopi...

 

[ToDavid]

Didn't Barzal also picked up a win ?

Unless you meant that the Isles won a game during the second round.

Yoopi...

Apologies, my words weren't very precise. Yes, I was referring to Tavares winning a game in the second round with the Islanders rather than being swept.

 

[LeafsNation75]

To quote you in another thread, if Eichel wants to be a #1C shouldn't he score 40 goals.....Funny you are using a GM excuse now when you didn't allow for the same argument in that thread. Your arguments change like the wind. Regardless, this doesn't change the facts Tavares was never able to lead a team more than 1 playoff win in 9 years on the Island, and how about the Leafs? They have hockey's a great GM I have heard you say in Dubas, same story 1 and out. JT is starting to run out of excuses. There is nothing wrong in picking Petterson, if Barzal can do it. I am sure a talented kid like EP can also.

It wasn't Tavares who put together the Islanders roster during his time with them, so shouldn't any lack of success start and end with Garth Snow?

As for Tavares he's had 1 playoff series as a member of the Maple Leafs and he will get his chance to have more success in the future. That's also the same number of playoff series Kyle Dubas has had as their GM, so that same logic applies to him.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It wasn't Tavares who put together the Islanders roster during his time with them, so shouldn't any lack of success start and end with Garth Snow?

As for Tavares he's had 1 playoff series as a member of the Maple Leafs and he will get his chance to have more success in the future. That's also the same number of playoff series Kyle Dubas has had as their GM, so that same logic applies to him.

Tavares isn't a GM, he was the #1C for the Isles and Leafs for 10 years in total. He has a total of 1 series playoff win in that time. Just a coincidence? Shouldn't the supposed best player of a team have better results? Barzal already has as many playoff series wins as Tavares, and he outproduced him in the playoffs too last year. Sounds like you are making excuses, zero responsibility goes to the player for a lack of playoff success.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Tavares isn't a GM, he was the #1C for the Isles and Leafs for 10 years in total. He has a total of 1 series playoff win in that time. Just a coincidence? Shouldn't the supposed best player of a team have better results? Barzal already has as many playoff series wins as Tavares, and he outproduced him in the playoffs too last year. Sounds like you are making excuses, zero responsibility goes to the player for a lack of playoff success.

In one more total playoff game last season Barzal managed a grand total of two more points than Tavares. They both has 2 goals each and the difference was Barzal with 5 assists compared to 3 assists for Tavares.

 

[Ulysses31]

petterson now i think. JT was better in his prime tho we havent seen pettersons prime

 

[The Winter Soldier]

In one more total playoff game last season Barzal managed a grand total of two more points than Tavares. They both has 2 goals each and the difference was Barzal with 5 assists compared to 3 assists for Tavares.

That's because Barzal played in the second rd. He did what Tavares took 10 years to achieve, a playoff series win leading his team in scoring in his first try. That's the type of playoff experience that I want. I see no reason why EP cannot do better than Tavares 1 in 10 year playoff record.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The difference is Barzal did what Tavares took 10 years to achieve, a playoff series win leading his team in scoring in his first try. That's the type of playoff experience that I want. I see no reason why EP cannot do better than Tavares 1 in 10 year playoff record.

Some Islanders fan you claim to be. It was Jordan Eberle who lead them in scoring in last years playoffs, not Barzal.

Eberle: 4 Goals, 5 Assists, 9 Points in 8 Games.

Barzal: 2 Goals, 5 Assists, 7 points in 8 Games.

Jordan Eberle Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Mathew Barzal Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Some Islanders fan you claim to be. It was Jordan Eberle who lead them in scoring in last years playoffs, not Barzal.

He led the team in scoring as the #1C, Eberle plays wing with Barzal. So again, let's not distract. Barzal in his first try in the playoffs equaled what Tavares has been so far able to accomplish. A playoff series win. You can blame GM's, Dubas and Snow if you want, but as you said in about Eichel if you are going to be the #1C, shouldn't he score 40 goals. Well if JT is going to be the #1C for 10 years, shouldn't he have more than 1 playoff series win?

 

[LeafsNation75]

He led the team in scoring as the #1C, Eberle plays wing with Barzal. So again, let's not distract. Barzal in his first try in the playoffs equaled what Tavares has been so far able to accomplish. A playoff series win. You can blame GM's, Dubas and Snow if you want, but as you said in about Eichel if you are going to be the #1C, shouldn't he score 40 goals. Well if JT is going to be the #1C for 10 years, shouldn't he have more than 1 playoff series win?

Don't go changing the goal posts. You said Barzal lead the Islanders in scoring during his first time in the playoffs and that's simply not true.

If you still don't believe me here is a link to the Islanders official website and they list Eberle 1st for playoff points last year and Barzal is listed in 2nd.

New York Islanders Stats | 2018-2019

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Don't go changing the goal posts. You said Barzal lead the Islanders in scoring during his first time in the playoffs and that's simply not true.

2 more points than Tavares, and 1 more playoff rd win. That's correct. Baral has him beat there. EP can do the same. He's been better than Tavares this year, 5 v 5 GA60, goals, points. The only advantage Tavares has that I can see is face0ffs. But EP has been better in every other facet.

 

[LeafsNation75]

2 more points than Tavares, and 1 more playoff rd win. That's correct. Baral has him beat there. EP can do the same. He's been better than Tavares this year, 5 v 5 GA60, goals, points. The only advantage Tavares has that I can see is face0ffs. But EP has been better in every other facet.

Yes Barzal scored 2 more points in last years playoffs than Tavares. I'm sure you must feel great seeing that happen. However in the end Barzal did not lead the Islanders in total points during the playoffs like you also said he did.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yes Barzal scored 2 more points in last years playoffs than Tavares. I'm sure you must feel great seeing that happen. However in the end Barzal did not lead the Islanders in total points during the playoffs like you also said he did.

I meant Centers, but now that you mention, Tavares didn't lead the Leafs in scoring either, or was even the leading scoring center on the leafs either. Barzal was the leading center scorer on his team, and he won a playoff rd. That's a resume of experience I want, that EP, you know he is the topic why I would go with him over JT. At some point, you just have to ask does JT have any winning in him? Maybe it will turn around for him in year 11, but I am giving the kid a shot. And as Barzal showed, he already did what took JT to do in 10 years what he did in only his 2nd season

 

[LeafsNation75]

I meant Centers, but now that you mention, Tavares didn't lead the Leafs in scoring either, or was the leading scorer center on the leafs either. Barzal was the leading center scorer on his team, and he won a playoff rd. That's a resume of experience I want, that EP, you know he is the topic why I would go with him over JT. At some point, you just have to ask does JT have any winning in him? Maybe it will turn around for him in year 11, but I am giving the kid a shot. And as Barzal showed, he already did what JT did in 10 year what he did in only his 2nd season

Now it matters that Barzal was the leading scoring centre on the Islanders in the playoffs. The NHL doesn't show playoff stats by a players position, so no matter how you try and move the goal posts he didn't lead the Islanders in points during the playoffs.

However since you opened the door to talking about where a player ranked at their position let me remind you of this. In the 2018-19 regular season Tavares was the leading goal scoring Centre for the Maple Leafs with his 47 goals. However the fact Auston Matthews was their leading goal scoring Centre and overall points leader in the playoffs isn't something I was upset about.

 

[CatchyTune]

I meant Centers, but now that you mention, Tavares didn't lead the Leafs in scoring either, or was even the leading scoring center on the leafs either. Barzal was the leading center scorer on his team, and he won a playoff rd. That's a resume of experience I want, that EP, you know he is the topic why I would go with him over JT. At some point, you just have to ask does JT have any winning in him? Maybe it will turn around for him in year 11, but I am giving the kid a shot. And as Barzal showed, he already did what took JT to do in 10 years what he did in only his 2nd season

Why are you talking as if Barzal won them the round on his own?

He didnt even lead his team in playoff scoring, courtesy of Jordan Eberle, and had a lower playoff average TOI than Brock Nelson, Josh Bailey, and Anders Lee.

Tavares lead his team in playoff points, goals, and average TOI forward wise. Barzal did none of those.

If anything Jordan Eberle played the Tavares for the Islanders.