Proposal: Talking Shattenkirk

[BinCookin]

Hey Blues Fan's: Friendly Visitor from the Detroit Board here.

I had been playing a fun little GMing game on our board having our fans vote on moves we would make. There is alot of interest in Shattenkirk over on our board, but the reason's for St. Louis to move Shattenkirk is unclear to me.

Could you explain your thoughts on Shattenkirk?
-As in are you ok with trading him because his salary would be too high?
-Because you are so Deep on D and need Centers only or could use wingers as well?

Looking to start a fun discussion that would "maybe" have us make an HFBoards trade (I.E. Poll vote)

Click to read more...

 

[542365]

-Shattenkirk could conceivably be available because he's a UFA after next year. We have Pietrangelo locked up long term, and he will always be ahead of Shatty on the depth chart, so it doesn't make much sense to pay a guy 6-7M to play on our 2nd pairing. We also have Colton Parayko who has played exceptionally well in his rookie season on the right side. One of our top prospects, Jordan Schmaltz, is also a puck moving RHD, so we're pretty set on the right side.

-I would only be interested in a center in return. More than likely the best we can hope for is a prospect that has a decent chance of becoming 1C. That's what we are sorely lacking.

-I would not be interested in a winger because we have Tarasenko and Schwartz, and a winger in return for Shattenkirk is not going to be better than either of those guys, so it doesn't make much sense. We want someone to play with Schwartz and Tarasenko long term.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

-Shattenkirk could conceivably be available because he's a UFA after next year. We have Pietrangelo locked up long term, and he will always be ahead of Shatty on the depth chart, so it doesn't make much sense to pay a guy 6-7M to play on our 2nd pairing. We also have Colton Parayko who has played exceptionally well in his rookie season on the right side. One of our top prospects, Jordan Schmaltz, is also a puck moving RHD, so we're pretty set on the right side.

-I would only be interested in a center in return. More than likely the best we can hope for is a prospect that has a decent chance of becoming 1C. That's what we are sorely lacking.

-I would not be interested in a winger because we have Tarasenko and Schwartz, and a winger in return for Shattenkirk is not going to be better than either of those guys, so it doesn't make much sense. We want someone to play with Schwartz and Tarasenko long term.

I agree with all this, but I'd be open to a young roster forward in return who can be top 6 caliber, including winger. I see Fabbri moving to Center within 2 years. If Backes, Brouwer and Berglund all leave...I'd like to see some decent players that can replace that and have some longevity with the Blues.

 

[Dbrownss]

Putting all of our hope for a center is becoming less realistic. Edmonton makes sense but not much else. I'd look for top 6 forwards+good/great prospects+picks for Shattenkirk.

 

[Alklha]

We can afford to extend Shattenkirk without any cap concerns, so any decision to move Shattenkirk will be based on addressing other areas of the team.

Personally, I wouldn't move him for a second line winger and some small additions. Shattenkirk provides more value to the Blues team success than a second line winger would. If we're getting a winger then I'd be wanting a cost controlled player with first line (not elite) upside+.

But, I'm expecting Shattenkirk+ for Spooner+.

 

[Celtic Note]

Putting all of our hope for a center is becoming less realistic. Edmonton makes sense but not much else. I'd look for top 6 forwards+good/great prospects+picks for Shattenkirk.

If that happens then the prospects better be phenomenal.

We easily should expect a Johanson/Seth Jones type move, not an Oshie or Ladd type trade.

 

[BinCookin]

Our fan base was on board with names like Tatar, Pulkkinen, Smith.

We just agreed Tatar+Pulkkinen for RFA Vatanen +5th was a good deal.

What kind of different scenario would you be interested in.

Our only center prospect is Svechnikov. (19# OA last year)

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Our fan base was on board with names like Tatar, Pulkkinen, Smith.

We just agreed Tatar+Pulkkinen for RFA Vatanen +5th was a good deal.

What kind of different scenario would you be interested in.

Our only center prospect is Svechnikov. (19# OA last year)

People on our boards might hate me for this, but I would do a deal That involves Tatar and Shattenkirk as the main pieces. Main reasoning is because I do not believe Steen will be here after next year. Now, another question for you, how would Detroit feel about a swap between our 1st round pick and Svech? I highly doubt that would entertain Detroit fans, but, just trying to process how you guys feel about him.

 

[Frenzy31]

Our fan base was on board with names like Tatar, Pulkkinen, Smith.

We just agreed Tatar+Pulkkinen for RFA Vatanen +5th was a good deal.

What kind of different scenario would you be interested in.

Our only center prospect is Svechnikov. (19# OA last year)

No interest in pulkkinen.

I would be interested in Mantha. The big issue for me with adding Tatar or someone like this him is unless they are better then our top 6, how do you add someone you would potentially lose in the expansion draft.

Svechnikov and Mantha is two piece I would be interested in for shatty.

 

[BinCookin]

People on our boards might hate me for this, but I would do a deal That involves Tatar and Shattenkirk as the main pieces. Main reasoning is because I do not believe Steen will be here after next year. Now, another question for you, how would Detroit feel about a swap between our 1st round pick and Svech? I highly doubt that would entertain Detroit fans, but, just trying to process how you guys feel about him.

I would say Detroit is "rebuilding" just like the leafs only not the same.
As in we are going all youth (and allowing Zetts, Datsyuk and Kronwall to retire life long wings). This offseason could be interesting on how many of our UFA's we let go.

I would imagine we are hoping to keep most prospects/picks.

But our glaring hole on D is starting to supercede just about all logic about this on our board.

Right now we like Svechnikov, but he would be expendable.

A higher cost after him would be Mantha...

And then there is Larkin, which I am pretty sure we "wont fix a D problem" if this is the cost.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I would say Detroit is "rebuilding" just like the leafs only not the same.
As in we are going all youth (and allowing Zetts, Datsyuk and Kronwall to retire life long wings). This offseason could be interesting on how many of our UFA's we let go.

I would imagine we are hoping to keep most prospects/picks.

But our glaring hole on D is starting to supercede just about all logic about this on our board.

Right now we like Svechnikov, but he would be expendable.

A higher cost after him would be Mantha...

And then there is Larkin, which I am pretty sure we "wont fix a D problem" if this is the cost.

Exactly why I didn't bring him up, haha. I know Larkin is untouchable, I just haven't heard much about Svechnikov that's why I brought him up.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

Putting all of our hope for a center is becoming less realistic. Edmonton makes sense but not much else. I'd look for top 6 forwards+good/great prospects+picks for Shattenkirk.

Yep. We've waited so long to deal Shatty that I think his value has slipped. He has had a terrible year defensively and now he is just one season from a 5-6 year, 6-6.5 mil per year contract.

I'd be ecstatic if we could get Jonathan Drouin for him.

If I were Edmonton, no way in heck do I give up RNH or Eberle for Shattenkirk. Another guy who can't really play defense isn't what they need.

 

[Alklha]

Yep. We've waited so long to deal Shatty that I think his value has slipped. He has had a terrible year defensively and now he is just one season from a 5-6 year, 6-6.5 mil per year contract.

I'd be ecstatic if we could get Jonathan Drouin for him.

If I were Edmonton, no way in heck do I give up RNH or Eberle for Shattenkirk. Another guy who can't really play defense isn't what they need.

The market dictates the value, and ultimately a lot is going to come down to whether he signs an extension immediately.

Another big part of the problem could be the looming expansion draft. If Nashville, Minnesota and Anaheim suddenly decide they need to move defensemen, added to Hamonic, then it is going to impact our return. I suppose the flip side to that is teams might be more willing to move some of their better young AHL players that they wouldn't be able to protect.

 

[Mike Liut]

To TB for Drouin and a 2nd, and if he signs an extention, the 2nd becomes a 1st.

 

[Alklha]

The Lightning aren't going to want Shattenkirk. Hedman is going to get $7m+ in 2017/18, when you add in their other 4 signed defensemen they are at $25m+ for that season. Adding Shattenkirk will take them beyond $30m.

Then you have to look at their problems with the potential expansion draft, adding Shattenkirk takes up another protection spot and they already can't protect what they want to. The expansion draft actually increases the value of our defensive prospects when it comes to acquiring Drouin.

 

[67Blues]

The Lightning aren't going to want Shattenkirk. Hedman is going to get $7m+ in 2017/18, when you add in their other 4 signed defensemen they are at $25m+ for that season. Adding Shattenkirk will take them beyond $30m.

Then you have to look at their problems with the potential expansion draft, adding Shattenkirk takes up another protection spot and they already can't protect what they want to. The expansion draft actually increases the value of our defensive prospects when it comes to acquiring Drouin.

Depending on what Stamkos signs for, the Lightning could find themselves in a bit of cap trouble by having to fill in pieces around those salaries. There is no way they would take on Shatty's salary unless the Blues retained, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

Thanks to the upcoming expansion draft(s), teams taking on the UFAs or high dollar players will have to have the room to protect their new asset else risk losing them. I wonder what the budget will be for these new team(s)? I wonder if they will spend up to the cap or keep it somewhat low and grow their own. That plan would dictate whether they grab top end exposed players or go for the younger prospect type players.

Edmonton will be upset if two teams come into the league as it hurts their annual #1 pick.

 

[carter333167]

I agree that it pretty much comes down to whether Shatty will sign an extension with the suitor team. We either should just investigate signing him ourselves with a limited NTC or ask him which teams me might like to play for assuming a trade.

Unless we are willing to trade him for rental value, Shatty holds a lot of the cards.

If we were discussing a trade with Detroit, I would want their 2016 1st plus...maybe plus Svechnikov. I think there are better trading partners for Shatty than the Wings but he might agree to an extension there.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Ideally, we keep Shattenkirk unless something comes along to pry him away - and that something had better be able to put up more points than Shatty as a center or as a winger with lots of pluses added.

Svechnikov would be the piece we would want in a deal from Detroit, and obviously we would want a lot more than Svech.

I would ask for Nyquist+Svechnikov at the very least.

Ideas that we'll trade him for Drouin+2nd is ridiculous. Shattenkirk has way more value than that - even with only one year. We aren't looking to deal him for any reason, so the deal has to be good value - otherwise, I expect the Blues to just re-sign him and try to move Parayko/Shattenkirk to their off-side. If that doesn't work after a year or two, then we'll trade a signed Shattenkirk.

 

[Spektre]

I'm in the camp that thinks the odds of trading Shattenkirk in the off season is almost 100%.

I would caution Blues fans on their expectations on that return.

When was the last blockbuster trade that Armstrong pulled off? I just don't see him as that type of GM. I won't be shocked if the return is a bottom 6 veteran + decent prospect.

 

[Frenzy31]

Ideally, we keep Shattenkirk unless something comes along to pry him away - and that something had better be able to put up more points than Shatty as a center or as a winger with lots of pluses added.

Svechnikov would be the piece we would want in a deal from Detroit, and obviously we would want a lot more than Svech.

I would ask for Nyquist+Svechnikov at the very least.

Ideas that we'll trade him for Drouin+2nd is ridiculous. Shattenkirk has way more value than that - even with only one year. We aren't looking to deal him for any reason, so the deal has to be good value - otherwise, I expect the Blues to just re-sign him and try to move Parayko/Shattenkirk to their off-side. If that doesn't work after a year or two, then we'll trade a signed Shattenkirk.

Not interested in Nyquist. Solid player but more of what we have. The most interesting prospect from Detroit is Mantha, at least to me. After a very slow start in the AHL he took off.

He is not as proven as Nyquist. But he has something we really need and that is size and speed. Svich. Is an interesting prospect but he hasn't done much this year and I would rather have something in the mid first round then him at this point. Just opinion. I have not seen him play so just stat watching.

 

[Alklha]

I'm in the camp that thinks the odds of trading Shattenkirk in the off season is almost 100%.

I would caution Blues fans on their expectations on that return.

When was the last blockbuster trade that Armstrong pulled off? I just don't see him as that type of GM. I won't be shocked if the return is a bottom 6 veteran + decent prospect.

Shattenkirk is not a #1 defenseman, but I'd argue that he is one of the 30 most valuable defensemen in the League. If that is the return, then Armstrong would be lucky only to be fired.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I'm in the camp that thinks the odds of trading Shattenkirk in the off season is almost 100%.

I would caution Blues fans on their expectations on that return.

When was the last blockbuster trade that Armstrong pulled off? I just don't see him as that type of GM. I won't be shocked if the return is a bottom 6 veteran + decent prospect.

I also think its already been decided to trade him....but I think the market is actually pretty good for Shattenkirk specifically and for his offensive RHD position generally. I doubt there is a deal with Edmonton, but I do think there are a few Eastern teams that would give good value for Shattenkirk.

I think we'll get a read on how much confidence the team has in the Fabbri to center transition based on the result of that trade.