Player Discussion Suzuki vs Kotkaniemi

[1909]

These two names should not be in the same thread.

It is like comparing Wideman to Hedman.

 

[Toene]

Which is this a thread? Suzuki is obviously better to anyone who watch actual hockey. JK might become a fine 2nd line center one day if the canes are lucky. More than that would be very surprising. He likely settle as a big defensive 3rd line center à la Eller if his mind is set to it. Suzuki potential range from lower 1st line center à la Koivu to solid two way center à la Bergeron. Jury is still out but less that Koivu would be surprising.

If KK had the speed and strength of Eller he'd be a bonafide top-6 center.

 

[LaP]

If KK had the speed and strength of Eller he'd be a bonafide top-6 center.

I'll give it to you Eller is more strong on his skates but i think they both share the same shortcomings. They are not great shooters and most of their offensive plays are telegraphed. JK is more skilled than Eller but his skills are overrated by many.

 

[Prettyisland]

A player and agent signing that contract ( term and money) are very aware of the limitations of talent

 

[Zorro]

Realistically, I see Suzuki as a really good #2C or a mid-tier #1C. Obviously I hope I'm wrong and he exceeds my prediction. Suzuki has distanced himself from Kotkaniemi in talent and consistency, but I don't see the dominance you'd expect from an elite C (assuming that's what you meant when you said "One of the best centres").

I think that he will develop into a top tier #1C, maybe not Crosby elite but still a top flight #1C. Timeline wise, i think it will be similar to Scheifele or Zibanejad or even Mackinnon where it took 2-4 years to become an established #1C. Not saying he will reach 100pts but i won't be surprised if he reaches at least 70pts next year and then full fledge PPG during his prime years. Since he models his game to Bergeron, it's not always going to be about points for Suzuki. It's about being a premier 2-way player while elevating the game of his wingers.

 

[FrankMTL]

I'll give it to you Eller is more strong on his skates but i think they both share the same shortcomings. They are not great shooters and most of their offensive plays are telegraphed. JK is more skilled than Eller but his skills are overrated by many.

That's exactly right. KK has a great shot, but you can see it coming from a mile away as it takes forever for him to get it off.

 

[Habs]

If KK had the speed and strength of Eller he'd be a bonafide top-6 center.

and if my grandma had wheels, she would be a bike

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Realistically, I see Suzuki as a really good #2C or a mid-tier #1C. Obviously I hope I'm wrong and he exceeds my prediction. Suzuki has distanced himself from Kotkaniemi in talent and consistency, but I don't see the dominance you'd expect from an elite C (assuming that's what you meant when you said "One of the best centres").

Fair, hard to say where he’ll end up
Caufield is a big factor in Suzuki’s long term upside imo

 

[Habby4Life]

KK and Jake Evans are on the same PPG (82 gms). One is a 7th rounder and the other is a 3rd OVA. The KK fanboys are creative when coming up with the BS excuses for his poor play. I guess it's not the coach, his linemates, the city, the hotdogs, the weather. KK was a wasted picked. Thankfully the new regime has a BPA philosophy that wont draft project head cases at #3.

There is no debate anymore. KK is a bust 3c at best, Suzuki is a legitimate 1/2C.

 

[Habby4Life]

Fair, hard to say where he’ll end up
Caufield is a big factor in Suzuki’s long term upside imo

Switch that around, Suzuki was progressing just fine before Cole.

 

[Adam Michaels]

and if my grandma had wheels, she would be a bike

Always made me laugh this expressions:

 

[SnapVirus]

KK played really great when CAR got injured players and his role was better. Now hes not producing cauze hes playing on the 4th line again.

I dont believe he is a bust.

He can hits, can score he has good speed. Hell be a 50points 2nd line centerman.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Why would you root against KK? Look I was and am the biggest KK detractor in this forum. I got into serious arguments with many of his fans and it looks like my assessment may be the correct one. But I would never root against the kid. My assessment isn't personal. I just didn't and still don't see much talent in him.

Whatever gets you through the night I guess. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[FF de Mars]

Canes signed KK because he fits in their Finn mafia. That 8 years contract of theirs seems very neat but it might come back to bite them if KK continues to shows lack of comitement. Back then I saw a picture of him at a festival wearing hippy clothes... and then how is he going to motivate himself now that he has an 8 year contract? His only motivation is going to come from his peers lashing at him. What happens if he doesn't develop into a proper defensive center?

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

What happens if he doesn't develop into a proper defensive center?

This is one of the big worries I have with Kotkaniemi. So far he hasn't been able to be an effective defensive center. The second thing is that he seems to have a hard time distributing the puck to his wingers and thrives more in a shoot first role.

He can still become a 3C but it's just odd to have a 3C who doesn't play PK. And it's also tricky to be a top C if one doesn't distribute well to your wingers.

I still think he could work out - he's got good size and skills. But I could also see a scenario where he's lacking a true identity at C and fits better on the LW.

 

[Zorba]

KK played really great when CAR got injured players and his role was better. Now hes not producing cauze hes playing on the 4th line again.

I dont believe he is a bust.

He can hits, can score he has good speed. Hell be a 50points 2nd line centerman.

In 5 more years Maybe

 

[Walrus26]

Suzuki is the 2nd coming of Ryan O'Reilly, hopefully with better driving skills.

KK is the 2nd coming of......of.......Andrew Copp. Big, decent, shows flashes of top 6 quality but is really a solid 3rd liner. Although KK will need to learn to play PK to even be that consistently.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Lemay is the one that looks like an "épais" there.

Martin Lemay was always an imbecile an will always be. I heard the dumbest takes of hockey while listening 1 month of him because im bored as hell.

I will forever laugh that ''Bergevin is not the problem in Montreal'' - Martin Lemay before the season
quote #2 ''Carey Price can still have a .930 season at his age'' Martin Lemay after the training camp
quote #3 ''We will never name a GM/president who doesnt speak french people because people in region can'T speak english'' Literally called people from other regions R*****.

He's legit dumber than Gaston Therrien and Norman Flynn

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This might be the best thread to read. So many bad takes and bad projections. Just goes to show you posters aren’t professional scouts and we should all take what we read with a grain of salt.

Well, I'd much rather have somebody who comes on and tells me what they think straight up. If you're wrong... well, you're wrong. I hate people who hedge their bets and don't commit to something because they don't want to be called out later on. I have much more respect for people who give their honest opinions on the skill sets as they develop. And yes, you're going to be wrong a lot of the time... but that's fine.

And by the way, these guys are both still really young. Still too early to really know what they're going to be down the road.

 

[Price is Wright]

I wish Hughes and MSL were around when KK was still here.

 

[covfefe]

Back then I saw a picture of him at a festival wearing hippy clothes... and then how is he going to motivate himself now that he has an 8 year contract?

To answer that question, let's check in with Steven A:

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I wish Hughes and MSL were around when KK was still here.

Me too. And that goes for a whole whack of prospects. And that's the problem with these kinds of things... we'll never know. What I do know though is that when you mismanage players, you don't get to then blame those players for not developing properly. It is a FACT that we've been among the absolute worst teams in the league at development. It's also pretty clear that Clode had something against this guy.

All that being said... I'll stick by my assessment of Suzuki. I think he'll be a legit number one. Not a superstar but a legit first liner. And I think he'll benefit greatly if CC is his linemate. As for KK, he's trending towards a number 3. And while that contract is long, I think it's a good move by Carolina. Kid is 22 and at worst will be a solid bottom sixer. Maybe he's still got number two potential but I'd have expected better progress this season for that. It's still early, but it's not as early as it was for him. As for CC, he's the one guy who I think actually does have superstar potential. But as we've seen, development means a lot. He'd still be struggling if we hadn't of made that coaching change.

I think going forward, our prospects will do much better going forward than they have looking back. I don't know if the Martin St Louis move was intended as window dressing. Maybe it was. But... whether it was or not, I was completely wrong in thinking he'd have no impact. He's come in and finally done what we've been asking our coaches to do for years now, let the kids play. He doesn't seem to be forcing a system on them. He's giving them ice time. He's letting them make mistakes. All the right things.

It's still early (I remember feeling similar things about the last coach when he first started) but at least we're off on the right foot.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Suzuki is the 2nd coming of Ryan O'Reilly, hopefully with better driving skills.

KK is the 2nd coming of......of.......Andrew Copp. Big, decent, shows flashes of top 6 quality but is really a solid 3rd liner. Although KK will need to learn to play PK to even be that consistently.

That is an insult to Andrew Copp, you should apologize.

 

[Zorba]

I wish Hughes and MSL were around when KK was still here.

They wouldn’t have drafted him over Tkachuk or Hughes

 

[CHwest]

They wouldn’t have drafted him over Tkachuk or Hughes

I don't get what people see in Hughes. Butter soft, no defense, you don't win championships with guys like him. Yes he can get points, but the rest......