News Article: Sunday Long Read: Cup champs used down time well

[1972]

A terrible start to the 2003-04 season confirmed the suspicions of McPhee and owner Ted Leonsis. It was time to try something else.

Change was coming in the NHL. The Collective Bargaining Agreement was about to expire, and Leonsis expected radical differences when the new one was put in place.

A decision was made: It was time to tear down the aging house and start building in Washington. Nearly every veteran player of value, save for goaltender Olie Kolzig, was traded before the deadline in the 2003-04 season.

Draft choices and prospects were hoarded. Patience was preached. The on-ice losses were only beginning to pile up. Leonsis and McPhee were up front with the fan base, not hiding from the anguish of many long nights at the MCI Center set to come.

"There's a lot of risk in the strategy because if it doesn't work, it is really hard on the fan base," McPhee said. "You can talk to people about rebuilding and then try to do it, but it is a difficult process to go through. If it doesn't work, then that means you might miss the playoffs for seven or eight or nine years in a row. That's really difficult for a franchise to survive."

Will the second phase of the salary cap era bring new NHL powerhouses? Will fans in Buffalo, Calgary, Edmonton and Florida be attending Stanley Cup victory parades the way they have in Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Pittsburgh?

The simple answer is this: Using the "full-scale rebuild" model remains one of the preferred blueprints for team-building in the NHL, but it might not deliver the same level of return as it has in other cities.

"It is usually not up to the manager. It is ownership's call on how they want to do it," McPhee said. "You take your instructions from ownership. You certainly give your advice on it, and you say there's one way to do it and another way to do it, and pick which one you want to do and away you go. I don't think things have fundamentally changed. I think you have to be patient, draft well and develop well, and create the right culture."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=690466&navid=nhl:topheads

Click to read more...

 

[Djp]

link seems broken



http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=690466&navid=nhl:topheads

 

[Robert]

The Red Wing organization has no idea what you're talking about....

 

[Djp]

Washington was an alternate example to Pittsburgh and Chicago.

Washington had their window in 2008-2011 playoffs.

Its more complicated than just drafting.



They had a high Bust rate

During the 2004-2007 drafts they drafted
04 05 06 07
3 2 2 1 1st Ovie, Jeff Schultz, Green, BUST, Finley(bust), Backstrom, Varlamov, Alzner
2 0 3 2 2nd Chris Bourque(bust), BUST, Neuwirth, BUST, BUST, BUST, BUST
2 0 0 1 3rd Lepisto, BUST, BUST

BUST=players who never made it to the NHL.

2003-2004 they traded 7 veterans from the team

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_season_team/Washington_Capitals/2003-04/1

Those trades brought in 2 1sts, 3 2nds, 2 4ths, and Brooks Laich,


In those 4 years they had 3 top 5 picks in Ovie at #1 2004 ,Backstrum #4 2006, and Alzner at #5 2007....all their own.

Prior to 2003-2004 Washington had a few other young players drafted/acquired to help build the team.

 

[Djp]

To make comparison to Buffalo....

Buffalo drafted/acquired some young players prior to 2012 ....Hodgson, Myers, Ennis, etc.

2012 Grigs, Girgs, McCabe,Kea
2013 Risto, Zads, Compher, Hurley, Bailey, Baptiste
2014 1st, NYI 1st(could be 2015), 3 2nds, 3rd
2015 1st, , 3 2nds, 3rd

They still could move Miller, Ott, Moulson, and Stafford for more picks in rounds 1st-3rd or young players.

they made 4 deals already in trading their core in Gausted, Pominville Vanek, and Roy...with Moulson and Ott effectively linked to the last two deals.

They still need that top winger and top center.

So 15/16 could be a big step year.

 

[Zman5778]

The Red Wing organization has no idea what you're talking about....

The red wings have lasted as long as they have thanks to a string of late picks that worked out.

I'm sure you remember the Dead Wings teams

 

[Chainshot]

The red wings have lasted as long as they have thanks to a string of late picks that worked out.

I'm sure you remember the Dead Wings teams

You mean the 15 years it took Ilitch's Wings to win a Cup isn't overnight success?

 

[haseoke39]

The Red Wing organization has no idea what you're talking about....

Steve Yzerman was a product of Wings tanking. And seguing from his championship teams to the 2008 one, the Red Wings had the benefit of Datsyuk and Zetterberg falling to the sixth round or so in an era before robust European scouting. They were way ahead of the league then. That's very unlikely today.

 

[Djp]

The red wings have lasted as long as they have thanks to a string of late picks that worked out.

I'm sure you remember the Dead Wings teams

Detroit had a culture of bad from 66/67-82/93 where they missed the playoffs except for 2 seasons.

They last missed the playoffs in 89/90.

going back in their draft history....

83 draft Stevie Y (round 1-#1)
89 Lidstrom (round 3) and Federov (4)
90 Primeau (1-#3)
94 holmstrom (10)
98 Datsyuk (6)
99 Zetterberg (7)


They have gotten lucky with picks from rounds 3 or later...

Its very rare to get a top 6/top 4 player from rounds 3 or later.

Detroit hasnt gotten all that much from draft picks since 2004 with Franzsen. Part of that has to do with their own internal system which appears to hold back young players until they are 24 or 25.

 

[Djp]

Steve Yzerman was a product of Wings tanking. And seguing from his championship teams to the 2008 one, the Red Wings had the benefit of Datsyuk and Zetterberg falling to the sixth round or so in an era before robust European scouting. They were way ahead of the league then. That's very unlikely today.

i disagree.....they were ahead in europe scouting in the late 80s/early 90s...but by the late 90's teams were regularly scouting europe.

In the 1999 draft the top 4 were european including the Sedin's and half the 1st were european players.

 

[haseoke39]

In the 1999 draft the top 4 were european including the Sedin's and half the 1st were european players.

Good context, thanks for this.

 

[Robert]

Steve Yzerman was a product of Wings tanking. And seguing from his championship teams to the 2008 one, the Red Wings had the benefit of Datsyuk and Zetterberg falling to the sixth round or so in an era before robust European scouting. They were way ahead of the league then. That's very unlikely today.

OK... 20 years though?

Whatever, denial is so easy... and well documented by those whom lose… Just saying.

 

[Zman5778]

OK... 20 years though?

Whatever, denial is so easy... and well documented by those whom lose… Just saying.

What is the point you're trying to make? That the wings are a model of why tanking doesn't work?

Not being snarky...I honestly don't see the point you're trying to make

 

[dotcommunism]

i disagree.....they were ahead in europe scouting in the late 80s/early 90s...but by the late 90's teams were regularly scouting europe.

In the 1999 draft the top 4 were european including the Sedin's and half the 1st were european players.

Just because there were European players drafted high doesn't mean that European scouting was anywhere near as comprehensive as it is now (and it's not actually comprehensive now either). We're talking about over a decade ago. Online/digital media has come a long long way since then

 

[Jame]

joshjull, does the article refute your position (in your opinion)?

 

[Djp]

Just because there were European players drafted high doesn't mean that European scouting was anywhere near as comprehensive as it is now (and it's not actually comprehensive now either). We're talking about over a decade ago. Online/digital media has come a long long way since then

There wasnt all that much difference between now and then in scouting---you make it sound like its the dark ages.....scouting dont operate purely on digital videos.

Online/video media has made it easier for armchair scouting.

what has expanded more has been data and metrics.

the funny thing now is that people may be over analyzing it.

If the 70s and 80s if you drafted a top 5 pick it was a near lock for a star/franchise player. Now its not as certain. sure the player drafted will likely make the NHL but will they be that top end star.....not so.

 

[Afino]

If the 70s and 80s if you drafted a top 5 pick it was a near lock for a star/franchise player. Now its not as certain. sure the player drafted will likely make the NHL but will they be that top end star.....not so.

head.....explode.....


Yes, because we've seen no top end stars come since the 2004 lockout.

Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Bobby Ryan....just off the top of my head. That's not even counting MacKinnon.

Weird. All top 3 picks.

 

[Robert]

What is the point you're trying to make? That the wings are a model of why tanking doesn't work?

Not being snarky...I honestly don't see the point you're trying to make

Yes, the post 1993 Detroit club is an example of an alternative to purging and starting over every 5 years..

 

[Zman5778]

Yes, the post 1993 Detroit club is an example of an alternative to purging and starting over every 5 years..

In order to get to that point though, they sucked for a good long period of time.....

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Yes, the post 1993 Detroit club is an example of an alternative to purging and starting over every 5 years..

So are we going to complement the Penguins for not undertaking a tank rebuild when Crosby/Malkin/Letang lead them to another cup when they're 30? The core of that team will still be the players acquired during a tank a decade earlier.

 

[dotcommunism]

There wasnt all that much difference between now and then in scouting---you make it sound like its the dark ages.....scouting dont operate purely on digital videos.

Online/video media has made it easier for armchair scouting.

Sorry but you'll have a really hard time convincing me that the fact that Hakan Andersson was apparently the *only* NHL scout to see Pavel Datsyuk play wasn't a product of the era. Video scouting has a lot of value, in that while you still want your scouts out watching these guys in person, it can key you into guys you might not have been aware of otherwise and might want to see more in-depth.

 

[joshjull]

joshjull, does the article refute your position (in your opinion)?

What position is it refuting? I honestly don't know what your asking since the article brings up a lot of different things.

 

[haseoke39]

Yes, the post 1993 Detroit club is an example of an alternative to purging and starting over every 5 years..

This is just stupid. When you tank for elite players, you have them for their career. You don't win a cup with them when they're 22 and then throw them out when they're 23 in order to tank again. Who in world would advocate that?

Making up a ridiculous claim about what tanking involves makes it pretty easy to refute tanking. Good job.

 

[vcv]

Yes, the post 1993 Detroit club is an example of an alternative to purging and starting over every 5 years..

You do realize that when teams tank and rebuild, they rebuild to be successful long term, right? They stock the system so they can continue to be successful every year, not just for a few years.

 

[joshjull]

This is just stupid. When you tank for elite players, you have them for their career. You don't win a cup with them when they're 22 and then throw them out when they're 23 in order to tank again. Who in world would advocate that?

Making up a ridiculous claim about what tanking involves makes it pretty easy to refute tanking. Good job.

Yes it is.

You do realize that when teams tank and rebuild, they rebuild to be successful long term, right? They stock the system so they can continue to be successful every year, not just for a few years.

Exactly