Confirmed with Link: [STL/WSH] Oshie traded for Brouwer, Copley & 3rd

[542365]

I like this trade now, Is Brouwer better than Oshie? Of course not. But, Brouwer has so far made more of a difference than Oshie did in the playoffs.

.....what? By doing what? Tom Stillman could've buried that goal he scored(probably would've done it a bit easier too). He generated absolutely no offense, which Oshie got **** for, but Brouwer gets praised for somehow...

This is, and likely always will be(unless Copley or that 3rd become something of substance) a dreadful trade. It's brutal, no two ways about it. Just because the team made the second round doesn't mean every move Army made was fantastic. This one, even if Brouwer scores the Cup winning goal, is awful.

 

[TheDizee]

.....what? By doing what? Tom Stillman could've buried that goal he scored(probably would've done it a bit easier too). He generated absolutely no offense, which Oshie got **** for, but Brouwer gets praised for somehow...

remember when oshie use to reverse hit and hit people all the time? if oshie still played like that, hed still be in STL. why do you think we kept berglund over him? it wasnt cause the return oshie brought was huge....its cause bergie uses his body and plays a more physical game which is what you need to compete out west. look how worthless Oshie was against LA, CHI and hell even MIN made him look awful.

people make all these excuses for him but the truth is that ever since his little Olympic tour, he turned into a soft forgettable player who thinks hes a star and can deke through people like hes crosby. but back in reality hes just a mediocre player who is now getting carried by 2 superstars in ovi and backstrom.

Oshie is like Okposo from NYI. solid player but highly overrated for their own good

 

[stlbluz]

.....what? By doing what? Tom Stillman could've buried that goal he scored(probably would've done it a bit easier too). He generated absolutely no offense, which Oshie got **** for, but Brouwer gets praised for somehow...

This is, and likely always will be(unless Copley or that 3rd become something of substance) a dreadful trade. It's brutal, no two ways about it. Just because the team made the second round doesn't mean every move Army made was fantastic. This one, even if Brouwer scores the Cup winning goal, is awful.

True hockey fans appreciate the intangibles outside of the box score. Steens line was invisible because they were assigned a specific role which they did quite well for the team.

Nobody is claiming that brouwer is the second coming or that is was a great trade; it's just worked out well for both teams.

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, this trade has benefitted both teams as hockey is a team sport.

 

[i aint Dunn yet]

oshie

 

[Ranksu]

remember when oshie use to reverse hit and hit people all the time? if oshie still played like that, hed still be in STL. why do you think we kept berglund over him? it wasnt cause the return oshie brought was huge....its cause bergie uses his body and plays a more physical game which is what you need to compete out west. look how worthless Oshie was against LA, CHI and hell even MIN made him look awful.

people make all these excuses for him but the truth is that ever since his little Olympic tour, he turned into a soft forgettable player who thinks hes a star and can deke through people like hes crosby. but back in reality hes just a mediocre player who is now getting carried by 2 superstars in ovi and backstrom.

Oshie is like Okposo from NYI. solid player but highly overrated for their own good

Bolded: Dear God you boy are lost. Berglund more physical then Oshie.

What comes to your opinion about Allen vs. Elliott is even more biased then my opinion about Lindbohm and I even know I'm wrong at many times. You just don't see it.

 

[Blues88]

There are no guarantees in sports. We may have advanced with Oshie.....we may not have. He didn't suddenly get better in Washington, he just happened to score 3 times in one playoff game. Great for him, glad its working out.

It wasn't perhaps the return we alll would have liked for our top 6 winger, but here's a fun fact: Brouwer was the only Blue to play 82 games this season. That counts for something, as Oshie was typically on the shelf for 10 or so games every year. He's also played just fine and was a consistent presence against the Hawks.

The way I look at it, with all the line combos, all the Backes shuffles, alld the Steen and Stastny assignments, if Oshie were here, we likely wouldn't have seen Fabbri much this season. I believe Fabbri and the general team construction after the Oshie trade forced Hitch's hand, and Fabbri helped carry this offense through some very trying injuries.

Respect, always, to Oshie, but Brouwer has done what was reasonably expected, sets a consistent tone, and seems to be a welcome "team" guy. Ditto for Upshall.

 

[TheDizee]

Bolded: Dear God you boy are lost. Berglund more physical then Oshie.

What comes to your opinion about Allen vs. Elliott is even more biased then my opinion about Lindbohm and I even know I'm wrong at many times. You just don't see it.

PLAYOFFS:
Oshie 49 hits in 37GP
Berglund 76 hits in 36GP

im not a math major but I think a 25+ hit difference in basically the same game total is a LARGE DIFFERENCE.

clear to see what ive been saying all along. Berglund is the type of player that plays his role better in the playoffs than Oshie. like i said, people need to stop thinking certain things before they look at FACTS and NUMBERS. There is a reason we kept Berglund instead of Oshie. Oshie strayed off from what he needed to do to succeed here, Bergie does not.

 

[Stealth JD]

Oshie had a good game in WAS last night. there's no guarantee he could have done that here though...he had enough chances to do so and fumbled them completely. He seems like he'd have been one of the guys that Hitch alluded too as uptight/nervous thoughout round one, and too many of those guys can sink a ship. It also is worth pointing out that Oshie ultimately wrote his own ticket out of town, the same way Perron did...by criticizing the coach and game plan and apparently not being on board the way the rest of the team was. It's no wonder this franchise is now having success without those guys...despite the success those guys may have elsewhere. It was never going to happen here.

My only complaint of the trade is that we shipped his butt to a good team. We should have moved him to Carolina or Calgary, just to show him how good he had it in STL.

 

[542365]

True hockey fans appreciate the intangibles outside of the box score. Steens line was invisible because they were assigned a specific role which they did quite well for the team.

Nobody is claiming that brouwer is the second coming or that is was a great trade; it's just worked out well for both teams.

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, this trade has benefitted both teams as hockey is a team sport.

I appreciate you questioning my fandom, but I simply ask what did Brouwer do that Oshie hasn't done in past playoffs? Oshie's line has done well to shut down opposing top lines in season's past, but because they didn't generate any offense, he, Backes, and Steen were thrown under the bus. Now that Brouwer does the exact same thing(does well defensively and generates 0 offense) he's being praised for it because "hockey is a team sport". I don't understand the double standard. If we're really claiming that Brouwer "fits" better, where is the proof? Brouwer did exactly what Oshie has done in the past and was ridiculed for.

 

[Ranksu]

PLAYOFFS:
Oshie 49 hits in 37GP
Berglund 76 hits in 36GP

im not a math major but I think a 25+ hit difference in basically the same game total is a LARGE DIFFERENCE.

clear to see what ive been saying all along. Berglund is the type of player that plays his role better in the playoffs than Oshie. like i said, people need to stop thinking certain things before they look at FACTS and NUMBERS. There is a reason we kept Berglund instead of Oshie. Oshie strayed off from what he needed to do to succeed here, Bergie does not.

I rather take bigger sample then short one.

Here is both guys career games + hits.

Oshie 560GP / 808hHIT = 1,44 HIT/GP

Berglund 591GP / 699HIT = 1,2 HIT/GP

There you can see easily who is more physical then the other. I was talking about in neutral basic Oshie vs. Berglund and bigger picture and you were speaking just post-season. What is totally different situation how Oshie vs. Berglund was used at post-season, that explains why Berglund have few more hits on his belt.

That I've to say Berglund have impressive post-season stats, but currently this post-season Patrick has been our one of worst players if you don't count 1 game where Berglund was good. I guess it was 2nd or 3rd game. But that is totally different story.

No reason to discuss Berglund was the other option for off-season trade then Oshie.

I still would take Oshie back compare to Brouwer.

Fabbri - Stastny - Oshie | line would be humming right now.

Lets just hope Brouwer can bring much more in team on locker room or off-ice to our youngsters and wash Hitch back in sauna, like Ott has been doing.

 

[izzy]

I appreciate you questioning my fandom, but I simply ask what did Brouwer do that Oshie hasn't done in past playoffs? Oshie's line has done well to shut down opposing top lines in season's past, but because they didn't generate any offense, he, Backes, and Steen were thrown under the bus. Now that Brouwer does the exact same thing(does well defensively and generates 0 offense) he's being praised for it because "hockey is a team sport". I don't understand the double standard. If we're really claiming that Brouwer "fits" better, where is the proof? Brouwer did exactly what Oshie has done in the past and was ridiculed for.

If you watched the games and couldn't see how Brouwer was a higher impact player for the series than Oshie ever was then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

If you watched the games and couldn't see how Brouwer was a higher impact player for the series than Oshie ever was then I don't know what to tell you.

Sure Brouwer scored a huge goal in game 7, but outside that he was very meh. I thought our resident whipping boy Patrik Berglund looked noticeably better during the series. That's not s good sign for Brouwer.

 

[Dbrownss]

Sure Brouwer scored a huge goal in game 7, but outside that he was very meh. I thought our resident whipping boy Patrik Berglund looked noticeably better during the series. That's not s good sign for Brouwer.

Oshie was also meh....


Anyways.... I'm listening to the NHL radio and it was said that Pittsburgh was going to walk away from Kessel and offer the same package for Oshie.

I can without a doubt tell you, the Blues wouldn't be where they are without Brouwer. Without knowing the fate of our season yet. That could have been a huge mistake.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Oshie was also meh....


Anyways.... I'm listening to the NHL radio and it was said that Pittsburgh was going to walk away from Kessel and offer the same package for Oshie.

I can without a doubt tell you, the Blues wouldn't be where they are without Brouwer. Without knowing the fate of our season yet. That could have been a huge mistake.

I'm not sure how you can make such a definitive statement. I suspect the tram would have finished in a very similar position with Oshie over Brouwer, but I'm not going to sit here and act like that's a fact. There are far more factors at play here than just swapping Oshie for Brouwer. Fabbri and Parayko being two huge differences from last year. Plus otherworldly goaltending from day 1.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'm not sure how you can make such a definitive statement. I suspect the tram would have finished in a very similar position with Oshie over Brouwer, but I'm not going to sit here and act like that's a fact. There are far more factors at play here than just swapping Oshie for Brouwer. Fabbri and Parayko being two huge differences from last year. Plus otherworldly goaltending from day 1.

I mean if they made the trade with Pittsburgh. So no Oshie or Brouwer

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I mean if they made the trade with Pittsburgh. So no Oshie or Brouwer

Ok that makes more sense then. Though we don't know what we would have done to plug that spot.

 

[Dbrownss]

Ok that makes more sense then. Though we don't know what we would have done to plug that spot.

Well my point is the trade has helped both teams. Which is always the goal for GMs. We may not be happy with the return, but we're fans. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes and every offer on the table.

Oshie did have an attitude problem with Hitch. Does this mean the team hated him? Absolutely not, but he openly complained about assignments and Hitch. Brouwer doesn't, Brouwers actually praised by his teammates and coaching for his attitude and professionalism. No one expected Brouwer to replace Oshie's production. Especially Brouwer and managment. He added a different element to the team. An element that Armstrong wanted to get back to.

As of now, it's a win win trade. Except in fantasy land. We got a known commodity and a couple bleh beans instead of a handful of magic beans that no one knows about

 

[bleedblue1223]

We would've signed a free agent, lets say Justin Williams or Joel Ward. Oshie for a better futures deal and signing one of those 2, would've been much better.

 

[Dbrownss]

We would've signed a free agent, lets say Justin Williams or Joel Ward. Oshie for a better futures deal and signing one of those 2, would've been much better.

Justin Williams was always going to Washington. What happens when you trade Oshie for futures and can't sign someone. Kinda torpedoes that plan...huh?

I don't even remember the specifics of the Kessel trade, but I would have been less then enthused with a late 1st and a fairly meh prospect.

 

[Brian39]

We would've signed a free agent, lets say Justin Williams or Joel Ward. Oshie for a better futures deal and signing one of those 2, would've been much better.

I strongly disagree that we would be better off signing Ward. Ward got signed to a 3 year deal at $3.275 mil that expires when he is 37. I really, really wouldn't want the Blues to be stuck with that contract for his last season. A huge upside of the Oshie trade was freeing up cap space in the next couple years since we have a good chunk of guys due big raises. Signing Ward would have completely erased that. If we want our Brouwer/Ward/Williams type player beyond this season, I'd much rather extend a 30 year old Brouwer than have a player on the wrong side of 35.

I would have liked Williams, but I totally get not wanting to make a trade assuming you are going to be able to land 1 articular UFA target. That is a recipe for overpayment and really puts a team in a bind if the player doesn't want to sign with you.

 

[Alklha]

Oshie was also meh....


Anyways.... I'm listening to the NHL radio and it was said that Pittsburgh was going to walk away from Kessel and offer the same package for Oshie.

I can without a doubt tell you, the Blues wouldn't be where they are without Brouwer. Without knowing the fate of our season yet. That could have been a huge mistake.

Armstrong was looking for a hockey trade.

The rumour is that it was Kunitz & Kapanen for Oshie+. When Kapanen went for Kessel, the Blues decided to take the deal with their perferred NHL player.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Armstrong was looking for a hockey trade.

The rumour is that it was Kunitz & Kapanen for Oshie+. When Kapanen went for Kessel, the Blues decided to take the deal with their perferred NHL player.

Yuck. In that case, I'd rather have Brouwer. But I'm also not very high on Kapanen, so that plays into it.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Armstrong was looking for a hockey trade.

The rumour is that it was Kunitz & Kapanen for Oshie+. When Kapanen went for Kessel, the Blues decided to take the deal with their perferred NHL player.

I thought Sutter was supposedly the main piece.

 

[Dbrownss]

Armstrong was looking for a hockey trade.

The rumour is that it was Kunitz & Kapanen for Oshie+. When Kapanen went for Kessel, the Blues decided to take the deal with their perferred NHL player.

I wasn't paying attention to who was talking, but he specifically said Pittsburgh was ready to walk away from Toronto and was going to offer the package for Oshie. First I heard of it. Either way, a deal with Pittsburgh would have left me in the same place I was when the Brouwer trade broke. Extremely pissed.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Oshie was a (low-end) top line player being used in a (traditionally 3rd line) checking role. It's nice to expect points from your top line players, but that's about the least favorable situation for actually producing them that Hitchcock could have come up with. Color me shocked that the line struggled to put up points in the playoffs while playing that shutdown role.

Put him on a top line and give him a more offensive role and he's producing. Again, shocking.

I don't think the Blues are to be congratulated for trading a low-end 1st line player with 2 years left at a good AAV for a high-end 3rd line player with 1 year left at almost the same AAV + spare change, simply because that 3rd line player is better suited for playing a 3rd line role (that last part conceded for the sake of argument).

If you need a 3rd liner for a 3rd line role, you pick one up for a 2nd or find one in UFA. It's not like they are hard to procure...especially if you're willing to pay one almost $4 million to do the job. If we were stuck on Brouwer specifically, I doubt we even needed to offer Oshie to get him away from the Caps. Most were speculating that he was a cap dump candidate. He certainly was a disappointment for them in the role they were using him in. I honestly think a 2nd would have gotten the job done just as well.

If you're lucky enough to draft and develop a 1st line player, you need to get something of some real organizational value for him if you move him early. The Blues didn't. They got 1 year of a 3rd liner's services for basically the same price and two magic beans.

Any team on the opposite side of that trade would make it 1000 times out of 1000, because it's a slam-dunk win from a value standpoint. The Blues organization simply isn't in the sort of position where they can be giving away 1st liners for 3rd liners because of "fit" and "intangibles."