Tom_Benjamin said:
It doesn't say it anywhere. Board revenue is buried in arena revenue, and the general Levitt statement covers how teams are supposed to split those revenues between the team and the arena. It sounds to me as if they can split it pretty much any way they want.
Geez and it sounded to me like Levitt did assess wether the dividing up of the revenue was hockey related or not.
So in the end, there is nothing that says specifically one way or another.
As it turns out, in this case you seem to have simply fabricated another argument towards the evil shading dealings of the owners. I wonder if that is how the PA approaches the negotiations as well?
Tom_Benjamin said:
Why? It is none of the player's business.
You say....
And yet I recall players questioning specifically that. The day the Levitt report came out I remember Craig Conroy standing infront of the Sportsnet camera asking - how are they (the PA) supposed to negotiate with the owners when the owners aren't being truthful about the money they are making?
Tom_Benjamin said:
As long as owners are getting indicted for fraud, there won't be any trust. They could hire an army of accountants and the players wouldn't believe anything Bettman said. Bettman was hired by the guys who conspired with Eagleson to rip off the players. They would have all been nailed with RICO violations if the statute of limitations had not run out. Trust? They may be hockey players but they aren't fools.
And yet, inspite of open speculation that the Russian Elite League has connections to the russian mob, players can still find it in their moral concience to sign on. Even after incidents over the last ten years where the mob has tried to extort money from the russian players playing in NA......hmmmmmm double standard maybe or just another case of grasping at straws in an attempt to shift the argument?
Tom_Benjamin said:
No, they aren't. They don't have to be afraid. All they have to do is say, "What planet do you guys come from? What an incredibly stupid idea. Isn't this still North America? Isn't this supposed to be where capitalism reigns? Count up your own damn revenues. Define them any way you want. We don't care. Just don't expect us to peg our salaries to them. That's your job."
And yet at the end of the day when an agreement is made, wether it's a hard cap or a soft cap - the players are going to need an agreed upon system to evaluate revenues.
I know you say it won't happen....but then again you don't really have a say in it.
What a crock it is to complain about something and then suggest that the solution is none of your business. They want the biggest piece of the pie that they can get and yet you say they have no business/interest in determining just how big that pie is. I don't see the logic or even the moral ground that is applied to that argument. You should either take an all in approach or all out - this best of both worlds position is bull.
Then again this attitude seems to capsulate this whole soap opera perfectly. It's not about solutions is it, it's about two sides wanting it their way and not willing to look at the alternatives.
Tom_Benjamin said:
They don't have anything to gain by trying to do management's job. The league won't work if the owners play hockey either.
Funny, and I thought this wasn't about doing managements job but instead about keeping tabs on it for the long term health of the league.
Hockey players and the cronies they employ at the PA head office must really struggle in the intelligence department if as you contend "it's an impossible task" to determine revenues.
Both sides talk about the future of this game and how to protect it or ensure that it is as viable as possible. The two sides also seem to approach this question from different angles.
You your seld in another thread once asked what the most basic problem is in regards to this impass.
Well in my opinion the most basic problem facing this impass, based on the information that has been made public, is that the two sides have never sat down and determined what exactly the revenues and by extension, expenditures of the league really are.
As I mentioned earlier, no matter who is proven correct as far as how the numbers shake down, once this is established and agreed upon, the end result can only be the two sides getting closer to an agreement.
An agreement that works within the frame work of how healthy or unhealthy the league actually is.