Stereotyping different hockey countries

[jekoh]

In fact, the US has produced more NHL goalies than any nation other than Canada,

And this has nothing to do with the fact the NHL is a North American league, obviously ?

 

[jekoh]

Finland: - fantastic goaltending,

Was not true before two years ago.

 

[Joe MacMillan]

Was not true before two years ago.

Agreed. In 2002 SLC we had Hurme and Markkanen(?)..

 

[Joe MacMillan]

Sweden lucky?

He was being sarcastic as Sweden always beat Finland in big games.

And maybe he's also referring to whatever happened in 2003 WHC

 

[turnbuckle*]

And this has nothing to do with the fact the NHL is a North American league, obviously ?

There's no lack of European skaters in the league - it is a world league, obviously.

Are you trying to tell me there are a whole bunch of goalies in europe that are good enough to play in the NHL but don't bother because it is a North American league? I'd like to see that list.

I don't mind a good debate, but often when it involves European posters, logic seems to be thrown out the window and the debate comes down to a "Us against them" mentality.

There's not a poster here that can logically claim that ANY nation other than Canada has produced more NHL-calibre goalies in the past 20 years than the Americans.

Here are some american goales that have played in the NHL in the past two decades.

Vanbiesbrouck
Richter
Miller
Esche
Dipietro
Barrasso
Dunham
Snow
Mason
Janecyk
Johnson
Jablonski
Grahame
Hebert
Carey
Casey
Rhodes
Terreri
Stauber
Ellis
Bacashihua
Anderson
Sauve
Morrison
Thomas
Clemmenson

Countless all-star appearances, and several Vezina and Calder trophy winners. No - they weren't all superstars, but neither were the likes of Takko, Salo, Hedberg, etc.

Someone come up with a list of Swedish, Finnish, Russian, Slovakian and Czech goalies in the past 20 years. After you get past the first half dozen or so goalies form each country, the list gets pretty weak, doesn't it?

 

[therealdeal]

There's no lack of European skaters in the league - it is a world league, obviously.

Are you trying to tell me there are a whole bunch of goalies in europe that are good enough to play in the NHL but don't bother because it is a North American league? I'd like to see that list.

I don't mind a good debate, but often when it involves European posters, logic seems to be thrown out the window and the debate comes down to a "Us against them" mentality.

There's not a poster here that can logically claim that ANY nation other than Canada has produced more NHL-calibre goalies in the past 20 years than the Americans.

Here are some american goales that have played in the NHL in the past two decades.

Vanbiesbrouck
Richter
Miller
Esche
Dipietro
Barrasso
Dunham
Snow
Mason
Janecyk
Johnson
Jablonski
Grahame
Hebert
Carey
Casey
Rhodes
Terreri
Stauber
Ellis
Bacashihua
Anderson
Sauve
Morrison
Thomas
Clemmenson

Countless all-star appearances, and several Vezina and Calder trophy winners. No - they weren't all superstars, but neither were the likes of Takko, Salo, Hedberg, etc.

Someone come up with a list of Swedish, Finnish, Russian, Slovakian and Czech goalies in the past 20 years. After you get past the first half dozen or so goalies form each country, the list gets pretty weak, doesn't it?

If you're talking about Nashvilles Chris Mason than you'd be wrong, he is not American, nor would he really be worth mentioning in "great goaltenders" catergory. Good backup maybe, great goaltender no.

 

[yarre]

I don't mind a good debate, but often when it involves European posters, logic seems to be thrown out the window and the debate comes down to a "Us against them" mentality.

Classy.

This i stereotypes, it isn't the real truth, I don't think about great goaltending when I think about the US either but to be honest, the only ones I think great goaltending about is Canada.

 

[Panopticon]

There's no lack of European skaters in the league - it is a world league, obviously.

So what exactly is the ratio of European skaters to NA skaters and what's the ratio of European goalies to NA goalies?

 

[edd1e]

There's no lack of European skaters in the league - it is a world league, obviously.

Are you trying to tell me there are a whole bunch of goalies in europe that are good enough to play in the NHL but don't bother because it is a North American league? I'd like to see that list.

Get your head out of your you know what. Of course it's harder for an European to get to NHL, obviously it's getting easier and easier, but let's say ten years back it was much harder for an European.

 

[Matti_A]

There's no lack of European skaters in the league - it is a world league, obviously.

Are you trying to tell me there are a whole bunch of goalies in europe that are good enough to play in the NHL but don't bother because it is a North American league? I'd like to see that list.

I don't mind a good debate, but often when it involves European posters, logic seems to be thrown out the window and the debate comes down to a "Us against them" mentality.

There's not a poster here that can logically claim that ANY nation other than Canada has produced more NHL-calibre goalies in the past 20 years than the Americans.

Here are some american goales that have played in the NHL in the past two decades.

Vanbiesbrouck
Richter
Miller
Esche
Dipietro
Barrasso
Dunham
Snow
Mason
Janecyk
Johnson
Jablonski
Grahame
Hebert
Carey
Casey
Rhodes
Terreri
Stauber
Ellis
Bacashihua
Anderson
Sauve
Morrison
Thomas
Clemmenson

Countless all-star appearances, and several Vezina and Calder trophy winners. No - they weren't all superstars, but neither were the likes of Takko, Salo, Hedberg, etc.

Someone come up with a list of Swedish, Finnish, Russian, Slovakian and Czech goalies in the past 20 years. After you get past the first half dozen or so goalies form each country, the list gets pretty weak, doesn't it?

Well, two of my all-time favourite goalies are american, Beezer and Thomas, but since Richter I don't feel the US has had a clear cut #1 go-to-guy like most other countries.

 

[Flip]

I would add one thing for Finland: collapses in finals...

I forgot that one, thanks

 

[jaydub*]

Well, two of my all-time favourite goalies are american, Beezer and Thomas, but since Richter I don't feel the US has had a clear cut #1 go-to-guy like most other countries.

Miller is one right now.

 

[jekoh]

There's no lack of European skaters in the league - it is a world league, obviously.

It's not a world league, some European players choose to play in their country rather than in NA, whether you admit it or not.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I can't really come up with too many lofty adjectives for American hockey right now (I'm talking in their prime NHL talent). I'll use the Olympic team this year as an example: Good, not great goaltending. Good team speed. Good playmaking ability but not much finish. Basically a bunch of good but not great talent that can just as easily finish out of the running as place top three. The future looks bright though.

 

[Joretus]

I have to say about goalies that it's totally different in one way. Ie. Bäckström/Norrena from Finland would easily be top-3 goalies in most of NHL teams. But they want to play, they don't want to play AHL and maybe even make less money. Same time for US goalie it's totally different. You are in home country and it's first option, even AHL before going over to europe. If you are player there is much more room. And even players in 3-4 lines do get to play. But ie. 2nd goalie in NJ hardly ever plays. So some european vets don't want to go over to sit in bench.

And if you will compare how many players vs goalies there is from USA in NHL or same thing with finnish players&goalies you will see totally different ratio. Even with this situation I did mention above.

I did fast counting and I came up with number of 22.2% all NHL'ers of Finland being goalies this season. And about yankees it's like ~13%.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

It just feels as if every team (not only NHL) have a Finnish back up and atleast one Finnish goalie drafted for the future. That´s´why the stereo type about Finland producing alot of goalies. And remember people this thread was about stereo types, dont have to be factual.

 

[Joretus]

It just feels as if every team (not only NHL) have a Finnish back up and atleast one Finnish goalie drafted for the future. That´s´why the stereo type about Finland producing alot of goalies. And remember people this thread was about stereo types, dont have to be factual.

And it's even factual if you are just comparing the rates of players/goalies

 

[Panopticon]

I have to say about goalies that it's totally different in one way. Ie. Bäckström/Norrena from Finland would easily be top-3 goalies in most of NHL teams. But they want to play, they don't want to play AHL and maybe even make less money. Same time for US goalie it's totally different. You are in home country and it's first option, even AHL before going over to europe. If you are player there is much more room. And even players in 3-4 lines do get to play. But ie. 2nd goalie in NJ hardly ever plays. So some european vets don't want to go over to sit in bench.

And if you will compare how many players vs goalies there is from USA in NHL or same thing with finnish players&goalies you will see totally different ratio. Even with this situation I did mention above.

I did fast counting and I came up with number of 22.2% all NHL'ers of Finland being goalies this season. And about yankees it's like ~13%.

That's exactly how it is.

 

[Garbs]

A little surprised to not see the word "trap" associated with Finland so far. I guess we're all being PC.

Also, Finland and goaltending? How about the Czech Republic and goaltending? That's been their entire identity for the past decade.

 

[RuuhkaTukka]

A little surprised to not see the word "trap" associated with Finland so far. I guess we're all being PC.

Also, Finland and goaltending? How about the Czech Republic and goaltending? That's been their entire identity for the past decade.

For me Finnish "trap" isn´t that bad because Finland forechecks guite vigorously.

I agree that Czech Republic has 2 great goaltenders and many others that are good. This was about stereotypes, and Czech icehockey brings to my mind counterattacks, big and talented players that use finesse rather that brute force. If I think of their players I remember all those skilled forwards led by Jagr. Then I remember their one great goalie Hazek. After that I notice that they have a good number of offencive defencemen. So all in all Czech doesn´t strike to me as a great goaltending nation.

 

[Tighina]

Belarus: potatoes, putting icepack on top of head, smallish head-standing goalies, potatoes, skating upright, taking shots from red line because, hey, why not?, potatoes, dream socre: 1-1, nandrolone injected with same suringe for whole team... did I mention potatoes?

Kazakhstan: a token Asian guy, the famed Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk knee-in-the-groin defensive positioning, dream score: 0-0, fixin' a tie with Ukraine as a survival strategy if enough horses are raised for bribe, one and a half ice-rinks, an extremely poor man's Latvia, which is an indigent man's Russia, which is a drunken idiot's USSR.

 

[futurcorerock]

A little surprised to not see the word "trap" associated with Finland so far. I guess we're all being PC.

Also, Finland and goaltending? How about the Czech Republic and goaltending? That's been their entire identity for the past decade.

I'd say scoring wingers trumps goaltenders in the Czech Republic

 

[futurcorerock]

There's no lack of European skaters in the league - it is a world league, obviously.

Are you trying to tell me there are a whole bunch of goalies in europe that are good enough to play in the NHL but don't bother because it is a North American league? I'd like to see that list.

I don't mind a good debate, but often when it involves European posters, logic seems to be thrown out the window and the debate comes down to a "Us against them" mentality.

There's not a poster here that can logically claim that ANY nation other than Canada has produced more NHL-calibre goalies in the past 20 years than the Americans.

Here are some american goales that have played in the NHL in the past two decades.

Vanbiesbrouck
Richter
Miller
Esche
Dipietro
Barrasso
Dunham
Snow
Mason
Janecyk
Johnson
Jablonski
Grahame
Hebert
Carey
Casey
Rhodes
Terreri
Stauber
Ellis
Bacashihua
Anderson
Sauve
Morrison
Thomas
Clemmenson

Countless all-star appearances, and several Vezina and Calder trophy winners. No - they weren't all superstars, but neither were the likes of Takko, Salo, Hedberg, etc.

Someone come up with a list of Swedish, Finnish, Russian, Slovakian and Czech goalies in the past 20 years. After you get past the first half dozen or so goalies form each country, the list gets pretty weak, doesn't it?

You also forget that 20 years ago it'd be much harder to find a european goaltender in the league.

 

[Slitty]

Belarus: potatoes, putting icepack on top of head, smallish head-standing goalies, potatoes, skating upright, taking shots from red line because, hey, why not?, potatoes, dream socre: 1-1, nandrolone injected with same suringe for whole team... did I mention potatoes?

Kazakhstan: a token Asian guy, the famed Torpedo Ust-Kamenogorsk knee-in-the-groin defensive positioning, dream score: 0-0, fixin' a tie with Ukraine as a survival strategy if enough horses are raised for bribe, one and a half ice-rinks, an extremely poor man's Latvia, which is an indigent man's Russia, which is a drunken idiot's USSR.

Oh you have to be Russian and a hockey fan to fully appreciate and understand that, hats off my friend, excellent piece!

 

[Garbs]

I'd say scoring wingers trumps goaltenders in the Czech Republic

I wouldn't think that's the case around Canada.