Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - II

[Do Make Say Think]

Wow, that bad huh

I mean this is the third movie of the third trilogy and they are doubling down on references to the original movies of 30+ years ago: Disney was absolutely terrified of taking Star Wars places with this movie despite clearly backing TLJ trying to do so.

And now we get another JJ movie that is going to do its very best at undoing a lot of what TLJ tried to start. It is all over the place in the worst possible way: not because TLJ was magnificent but because the themes are inconsistent and while people may not fully realize it, they feel it.

That being said, there are plenty of glowing impressions, the movie won't be awful. The whole thing has just been very frustrating when it really shouldn't, this should have been a fun ride (and it started out as one). We have reached the end of the ride so the frustration has reached its apex.

 

[RandV]

Yes.

What baffles me the most is how much energy is spent discussing a "paint-by-the-numbers" sci fi epic.

I mean, I get the cultural importance. I understand what it means to people. Think about it though... what is Star Wars? Basic fantasy tropes in space with genius merchandising/marketing... and the first one came at the right time.

Story-wise, it was never ground breaking. NEVER! It re-uses, wisely, tropes, that have been established by Greek tragedy. TLJ does it as well and I am sure this one will too.

I often wonder what people expect. Masterpieces? They never were. Star Wars always has been mediocre. Even Empire Strikes Back is very paint-by-the-numbers... EVEN the twist at the end is. It is well-directed and very enjoyable, but it is not a masterpiece.

I love Star Wars and always will, but see it as what it is. I am not trying to deconstruct it and analyze it too much. I either enjoy or not. I do not try to push it further.

I respect people that do, it is their prerogative, but I just do not understand.

Not to put it specifically in those terms, but why exactly is the merchandising/marketing so successful? Why have their been dozens of video games, "extended universe" books, etc etc, keeping a trilogy that was made in the 80's still relevant today? I mean there's always been these types of "mediocre" movies in theatres with various degrees of engagement, but none of them blew up quite like Star Wars did. And this is what needs to be understood about Star Wars.

Also even if they benefited largely being the first one at the right time, why shouldn't an inventor/innovator reap the benefits of being first to establish a market? That's typically how the real world works. In this case I'd say Star Wars was an innovator in that it took the space setting and made it look real and epic, in a way that holds up to modern effects. Prior to it while maybe some good content was there like with Star Trek
everything else just looked low budget and bad.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The only reviews I trust are from Red Letter Media

I love them but I have to be honest, their cynicism has started getting to me.

I get it, I don't think it is disingenuous (Hollywood is absolutely creatively bankrupt) but it just gets to be a bit much when there is so little positivity in their videos. I don't want them to love everything but I'd really like to see them spend more time on movies they love outside of re:view. They do a bit of it but I'd like some more.

It is a bummer to watch something I enjoy and feel sad about the state of things afterwards.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Not to put it specifically in those terms, but why exactly is the merchandising/marketing so successful? Why have their been dozens of video games, "extended universe" books, etc etc, keeping a trilogy that was made in the 80's still relevant today? I mean there's always been these types of "mediocre" movies in theatres with various degrees of engagement, but none of them blew up quite like Star Wars did. And this is what needs to be understood about Star Wars.

Also even if they benefited largely being the first one at the right time, why shouldn't an inventor/innovator reap the benefits of being first to establish a market? That's typically how the real world works. In this case I'd say Star Wars was an innovator in that it took the space setting and made it look real and epic, in a way that holds up to modern effects. Prior to it while maybe some good content was there like with Star Trek
everything else just looked low budget and bad.

Star Wars innovated on many fronts, that's for sure.

Special effects. Yup.

Merchandising (Lucas keeping the merchandising rights because the studio did not give a f*** at the time was genius). Yup.

Bad ass universe. Yup.

Storytelling. Nope.

My point was saying that OMG OMG OMG OMG the new movies destroyed Star Wars is kinda moronic. The story being told is very similar, the tropes are the same. The "technical" execution is even better (not as revolutionary, but "better"... if "better" is even a thing).

People have every right to dislike and critique the new films, I just think it is not taking them at face value and being overly emotional. But hey, I mean, that's only natural, so I am complaining for the sake of complaining.

Lucas was a smart businessman and milked his creation to the fullest. He was smart in the way he used classic tropes and put them in a new exciting setting. He created new techniques. So, yes, he was ABSOLUTELY an innovator and should reap (and has) every rewards. I mean, I was not critiquing the phenomenon at all; I get it. Just the extreme reaction to the new material. The same thing will end up happening to the MCU down the line... when it won't feel original anymore. It was never about "quality" (even though, "quality" itself can be debated, I just have no interest in doing so).

Sorry for the stream of consciousness, I am not even sure I got my point across.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I have a feeling that the whole movie was leaked. I fear that I will see what I read week ago.

The whole plot outline leaked a long time ago, as early as this summer. It is why so many reacted so poorly to the trailer: it was proof that the leaks were true and the leaks are not encouraging.

 

[Master P]

I love them but I have to be honest, their cynicism has started getting to me.

I get it, I don't think it is disingenuous (Hollywood is absolutely creatively bankrupt) but it just gets to be a bit much when there is so little positivity in their videos. I don't want them to love everything but I'd really like to see them spend more time on movies they love outside of re:view. They do a bit of it but I'd like some more.

It is a bummer to watch something I enjoy and feel sad about the state of things afterwards.

I know what you mean, they definitely play up the cynicism for their videos but I still find them to be reasonable.
I think its just a sign of the times. If its not a superhero movie then its a re-make of an older film/franchise. Really need something different.

 

[discostu]

This trilogy is existing in two universes for me.

I'm on twitter and other communities and see the debates and stuff. I just watched the last two films recently and there's elements of both I like, but probably prefer TLJ more. I get that people are passionate, but it's exhausting, and I generally wasn't that hyped to see it.

But, I have two boys ages 5 and 6 and they have gotten into star wars in a big way. The older one has had strong interest before and we were planning on taking him to see this movie for a while. The younger one though has gotten really into it, and we're now trying to figure out when we can all go to a showing that won't be busy, as they are likely going to be talkative and excited.

Their excitement into it has gotten me nostalgic for it, enough that I bought a ticket to a Thursday show for myself, so I can enjoy my showing, knowing that the family viewing is going to have a lot of interruptions.

I'm 43 and I do not expect that this movie will impact my life in a major way, but I am curious where it goes. I do like these characters, and want to see where they go, and willing to accept things as they're presented, and aim to not have any specific expectations.

For my kids though, this will be their first Star Wars theatre experience, and I'm glad these films exist to give it to them.

For as much as it's commercialized and overdeveloped, it's still amazing how they managed to create a whole universe. Seeing it through my kids eyes, it does give ms that perspective a bit more.

 

[Osprey]

Aren't these early reviews usually from weirdo sycophants like the guys the from Collider?

That's probably a little extreme, but, yes, I believe that the people invited to movie premieres are mostly friends, loyalists and other carefully selected journalists that are going to be predisposed to enjoying it and then raving about it. If you have a history of being critical of the franchise or the filmmakers or the studio, you're likely not going to get an invitation. After all, the studio wants good press, especially only 4 days before general release.

 

[DougieSmash]

The whole plot outline leaked a long time ago, as early as this summer. It is why so many reacted so poorly to the trailer: it was proof that the leaks were true and the leaks are not encouraging.

I can't wait to see it but from all the leaks I got some Return of the Jedi vibes. Not much impressed by what I read.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

This trilogy is existing in two universes for me.

I'm on twitter and other communities and see the debates and stuff. I just watched the last two films recently and there's elements of both I like, but probably prefer TLJ more. I get that people are passionate, but it's exhausting, and I generally wasn't that hyped to see it.

But, I have two boys ages 5 and 6 and they have gotten into star wars in a big way. The older one has had strong interest before and we were planning on taking him to see this movie for a while. The younger one though has gotten really into it, and we're now trying to figure out when we can all go to a showing that won't be busy, as they are likely going to be talkative and excited.

Their excitement into it has gotten me nostalgic for it, enough that I bought a ticket to a Thursday show for myself, so I can enjoy my showing, knowing that the family viewing is going to have a lot of interruptions.

I'm 43 and I do not expect that this movie will impact my life in a major way, but I am curious where it goes. I do like these characters, and want to see where they go, and willing to accept things as they're presented, and aim to not have any specific expectations.

For my kids though, this will be their first Star Wars theatre experience, and I'm glad these films exist to give it to them.

For as much as it's commercialized and overdeveloped, it's still amazing how they managed to create a whole universe. Seeing it through my kids eyes, it does give ms that perspective a bit more.

True. My friend's daughter is beyond pumped for this movie, it is really something else.

The kind of thing that made my very conservative friend (who is the father) really appreciate diversity: "I guess having strong female leads can be a big deal!". We all did a double take as he said that

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I can't wait to see it but from all the leaks I got some Return of the Jedi vibes. Not much impressed by what I read.

Well sounds like actual critics got to see it and are now posting their impressions.

It is not looking good for RoS, some really harsh words for it. This could turn into another Batman vs Superman cause it is getting pummelled by critics.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Well sounds like actual critics got to see it and are now posting their impressions.

It is not looking good for RoS, some really harsh words for it. This could turn into another Batman vs Superman cause it is getting pummelled by critics.

Should we have expected anything different. This is written by Terrio who wrote Batman vs Superman.

 

[DougieSmash]

Well sounds like actual critics got to see it and are now posting their impressions.

It is not looking good for RoS, some really harsh words for it. This could turn into another Batman vs Superman cause it is getting pummelled by critics.

At this point, I only care for Kylo story. Pretty sure he will die though. It's so obvious. Just remake of the ROTJ.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Should we have expected anything different. This is written by Terrio who wrote Batman vs Superman.

My qualms are with the direction Disney took with this movie which was clearly in reaction to the internet outrage cottage industry over TLJ.

Terrio is a known quantity, the real problem is who hired him. They didn't have to retcon the crap out of TLJ and that they chose to is the real problem, it sours anyone who cared about the movies and makes the whole thing feel like a waste of time.

God I'm frustrated with Disney, the perfect embodiement of what is wrong with XXIst century capitalism (and I think capitalism is fine, it just has some issues we need to fix)

 

[Osprey]

This trilogy is existing in two universes for me.

I'm on twitter and other communities and see the debates and stuff. I just watched the last two films recently and there's elements of both I like, but probably prefer TLJ more. I get that people are passionate, but it's exhausting, and I generally wasn't that hyped to see it.

But, I have two boys ages 5 and 6 and they have gotten into star wars in a big way. The older one has had strong interest before and we were planning on taking him to see this movie for a while. The younger one though has gotten really into it, and we're now trying to figure out when we can all go to a showing that won't be busy, as they are likely going to be talkative and excited.

Their excitement into it has gotten me nostalgic for it, enough that I bought a ticket to a Thursday show for myself, so I can enjoy my showing, knowing that the family viewing is going to have a lot of interruptions.

I'm 43 and I do not expect that this movie will impact my life in a major way, but I am curious where it goes. I do like these characters, and want to see where they go, and willing to accept things as they're presented, and aim to not have any specific expectations.

For my kids though, this will be their first Star Wars theatre experience, and I'm glad these films exist to give it to them.

For as much as it's commercialized and overdeveloped, it's still amazing how they managed to create a whole universe. Seeing it through my kids eyes, it does give ms that perspective a bit more.

I wish that I had kids so that I could view the ST from a different perspective and maybe appreciate it on some level. I know that there are levels that it can be appreciated, but they're not relevant to me, so all that I have is my perspective as a crusty old fan who can't help but compare everything to the OT. Kids are fun because they have very little to compare anything against. Christmas shopping for my nephews and nieces (which I happen to be doing right now) is a breeze because I know that they'll love anything that I get for them, regardless of price or quality, whereas recently shopping for myself was excruciating because I'm so picky. I suppose that getting older means developing opinions, then becoming picky, then, ultimately, becoming cranky .

 

[discostu]

I wish that I had kids so that I could view the ST from a different perspective and maybe appreciate it on some level. I know that there are levels that it can be appreciated, but they're not relevant to me, so all that I have is my perspective as a crusty old fan who can't help but compare everything to the OT. Kids are fun because they have very little to compare anything against. Christmas shopping for my nephews and nieces (which I happen to be doing right now) is a breeze because I know that they'll love anything that I get for them, regardless of price or quality, whereas recently shopping for myself was excruciating because I'm so picky.

The 6 year old (almost 7) approaches it similar to many here. He asks lots of questions and wants to know why someone is good or bad, and how things developed.

The 5 year old literally loves it because it has spaceships and laser swords. He likes Chewey, and has decided he's a Jedi. We're not able, nor do we want to explain it to him.

For him, Star Wars is about being a fun world of make believe with good guys and bad guys.

Both kids have gotten into superhero films at times as well, but we've stayed away from showing them movies. I find the Marvel movies, even among thr more family friendly don't speak to them.

Star Wars does though,and it's hard for me to figure out why fully. A big part is the disconnect from reality. A long time ago and a galaxy far, far away really sets it up to be pure fantasy.

I also realize that kids interests change on a dime, and in two months, they could be into completely different stuff. But, man, the love for it in my household is really high right now, and it's going to add to my enjoyment on Thursday, as I get t wonder how they'll reaction when they see it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

My qualms are with the direction Disney took with this movie which was clearly in reaction to the internet outrage cottage industry over TLJ.

Terrio is a known quantity, the real problem is who hired him. They didn't have to retcon the crap out of TLJ and that they chose to is the real problem, it sours anyone who cared about the movies and makes the whole thing feel like a waste of time.

God I'm frustrated with Disney, the perfect embodiement of what is wrong with XXIst century capitalism (and I think capitalism is fine, it just has some issues we need to fix)

I think you are being a bit too much of a cynic here. My view on this is, it's not really a reaction to TLJ, but ROS will simply be more of the 3rd movie to TFA, but with a missing 2nd movie, so the story will be a mess. That's more on Disney not having a plan. Now a course correction was definitely part of it, but to me, the leaks seem like they try to please everyone, but there just isn't enough time to provide a movie to succeeds at that.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I think you are being a bit too much of a cynic here. My view on this is, it's not really a reaction to TLJ, but ROS will simply be more of the 3rd movie to TFA, but with a missing 2nd movie, so the story will be a mess. That's more on Disney not having a plan. Now a course correction was definitely part of it, but to me, the leaks seem like they try to please everyone, but there just isn't enough time to provide a movie to succeeds at that.

I mean you hated TLJ so we have very divergent perspectives on the matter (and that is fine).

Hard for us to discuss this fully without getting into spoilers so let us agree to revisit this in a couple of days

As disappointed as I am reading the very negative impressions that are coming out now (which confirm what a lot of us felt was going to happen), it is still fun to be a part of the phenomenon.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

A fascinating thing to watch unfold is one thing SW has going against it globally is that China didn't experience the original series or even much of the prequel craze

Its sorta fascinating but understandable that SW has never really built up popularity there. The original trilogy was largely unknown for decades , The prequels did nothing to build brand and interest in this new series has been meh and diminishing

Add in the growing strength and improvement in quality of Chinese blockbusters for home market thru years

SW is franchise that Disney rightly has essentially surrendered on China with. They aren't pumping big $$$ into release or expecting much of Chinese market

Says alot about SW brand that they can do so well financially (Outside of Solo naturally) without China which has become major part of success of blockbuster films

 

[bleedblue1223]

I mean you hated TLJ so we have very divergent perspectives on the matter (and that is fine).

Hard for us to discuss this fully without getting into spoilers so let us agree to revisit this in a couple of days

As disappointed as I am reading the very negative impressions that are coming out now (which confirm what a lot of us felt was going to happen), it is still fun to be a part of the phenomenon.

Yeah, I'm curious how it plays out and the differing perspectives on it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sounds like people are just blaming each side of the fandom for this. Remember, it's Disney and Lucasfilm that didn't make a plan and thought that they could just write it as they went with different directors and writers on each film.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

uh oh.

 

[John Price]

I got my tickets this morning. They didn't have many seats left and the only ones were up in the front of the theater

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

uh oh.

Of course you also have reviews like this





People will either love it or not

 

[bleedblue1223]

Anyone that wants to describe Star Wars as horny, is someone I won't pay attention to.