Online Series: Star Trek: Discovery - Topic II

[Cloned]

Blender, about your theory for Lt. Tyler...

(Major spoiler warning)

Spoiler

It appears that the same actor, Shazad Latif, plays both Tyler and Voq. Imdb.com lists a different actor for Voq, Javid Iqbal, but this "person" has Discovery as his only acting credit ever and the only photos of him are in makeup as Voq. Also, I'm reading that this Iqbal has never appeared on the promotional tour for the show, whereas Latif has appeared on the tour as a series regular, even though Lt. Tyler doesn't appear until episode 5. Also, before being re-cast as Tyler, Latif was cast as a Klingon named Kol.

Amusingly, when Latif was asked about Iqval, his response was "Well, yeah, if you check IMDb he’s an actor on Star Trek: Discovery." OK, that's a really odd thing to say about a fellow cast member. Then, when the interviewer asked whether we'd ever get to meet Iqval, the CBS publicist ended the interview. Haha.

https://trekmovie.com/2017/10/21/shazad-latif-responds-to-lt-tyler-star-trek-discovery-fan-theory/

Basically, it looks like CBS/Paramount made up this Iqbal person to try to disguise the fact that Latif plays both characters and that Tyler is Voq in disquise.

Articles on the subject:
https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/star-trek-discovery-voq-javid-iqbal/
https://www.avclub.com/this-star-trek-discovery-actor-might-not-actually-exis-1819635988

Article on last week's episode and the problems with it, especially the fact that Lorca looks like an idiot for trusting an obvious spy:
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/10/and-now-star-trek-discovery-has-lost-its-soul/

This makes me wonder how dumb the writers think that Star Trek fans are. Maybe it could be coincidence that the first episode without Voq in it is the first episode with Tyler in it, but didn't they think that we'd catch on pretty quickly when Voq, pretty heavily developed in the first four episodes, continues to be AWOL and never seen from again while Tyler becomes a show regular? This isn't a deceit that could possibly be sustained for very long at all, so it really makes me wonder what the writers were thinking.

I think it was pretty obvious. I’m not sure the writers were trying to hide anything when they deliberately included dialogue in the episode that leads one to come to this conclusion.

That said, this could be interesting depending on what they do. They could go the route of having him being given false memories, only activated when the time is right. But by then he’s made friends on the ship and he is faced with a dilemma.

Or, and this is what I’m betting happens, he and Burnham develop feelings for each other.

 

[Osprey]

I think it was pretty obvious. I’m not sure the writers were trying to hide anything when they deliberately included dialogue in the episode that leads one to come to this conclusion.

The point of most of what I wrote is that the show's publicists sure seem to be trying to hide it. Admittedly, I was assuming that they and the writers were on the same page, but I suppose that you could be right and that the publicists are trying to hide it more than the writers. I'm not really sure why the writers would want to make it so obvious, though, and undermine the potential for drama and a twist. If they're trying to be like Game of Thrones, they're not doing it right.

I suppose that they could be going for a "the audience knows his secret, but the characters on the show don't" and building drama that way. They would have to make him seem shady, though, to confirm the suspicions, which they haven't really done yet. We'll see how they portray him tonight. If his turn is foreshadowed, it'll support the idea that the writers haven't really been hiding it all along. If he continues to be portrayed as a likable good guy, though, then I think that it has to be assumed that the writers are trying to set it up as a big twist.

 

[Blender]

I think it was pretty obvious. I’m not sure the writers were trying to hide anything when they deliberately included dialogue in the episode that leads one to come to this conclusion.

That said, this could be interesting depending on what they do. They could go the route of having him being given false memories, only activated when the time is right. But by then he’s made friends on the ship and he is faced with a dilemma.

Or, and this is what I’m betting happens, he and Burnham develop feelings for each other.

As I said earlier in the thread, the tribble has to come into play. You don't establish a tribble on Lorca's desk but not use it to expose Tyler.

 

[NyQuil]

Bahahahaha.

"You fight like a Klingon."

 

[Blender]

"You fight like a Klingon." Uh huh...

 

[Blender]

What the f*** was that?

Her floating through space might as well have been this:

 

[NyQuil]

"We've met before."

 

[Blender]

"We've met before."

I like the double meaning on that.

 

[Blender]

The episode had some pretty good stuff in it, and it had some pretty bad stuff in it. A lot of the Burnham/Sarek mind meld over space stuff was pretty terrible.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Spoiler

Admiral Cornwell sleeps with Captain Lorca. He wakes up later in bed when she touches his back and he grabs her by the throat and with a Phaser to her head. With her now seeing he is unstable she lets it be know she will remove him from command. Admiral later goes on diplomatic mission that Sarek was on and gets captured and Captain Lorca acts like he isn't that interested in rescuing her. This is not a good Starfleet officer let alone Captain.

Worst main Captain character ever for Star Trek. Just not liking things.

 

[Cloned]

Spoiler

As I guessed, Burnham and Tyler will develop feelings for each other. Or maybe Tyler fakes it. Either way, this is a good narrative.

I’m not sure a Trek show has had this good of a narrative drive since DS9. Plenty of things to look forward to every episode. I’m interested to see how Lorca’s character will end up. Either he ends up officially disgraced, with only his crew knowing what he really did, or he sacrifices himself to end the war.

 

[johnjm22]

God this episode was terrible. Worst one yet. Sonequa Martin Green was extra bad.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I need to see this episode again because CBS dropped the ball bad. So many issues with streaming tonight. Hopefully they fix it as the week goes on.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

It would be so illogical for Tyler to be a Klingon (Voq?). There is no way he could mimic human idiosyncrasies so perfectly considering the rare interactions between humans and Klingons over the last century. It would be a plot twist for the sake of having a plot twist.

 

[Osprey]

It seems to me that the writers are dropping clues (like "you fight like a klingon" and others) that they think people won't get on first viewing but will get a kick out of when they re-watch the season in the future. I get the impression that they don't intend for people to see the twist coming and think that they're being very clever by hiding clues right under our noses.

What the **** was that?

Her floating through space might as well have been this:

I liked the Sarek-Burnham mind fight scenes, also known as... katrateka .

It would be so illogical for Tyler to be a Klingon (Voq?). There is no way he could mimic human idiosyncrasies so perfectly considering the rare interactions between humans and Klingons over the last century. It would be a plot twist for the sake of having a plot twist.

Yeah, I thought about the same thing while watching the episode, yet it seems like they're going with it, anyways. It was pointed out in a couple of the articles that I linked above that there's precedent for it. The Trouble With Tribbles involved a klingon made up to look and act human, a disguise so convincing that only a tribble could tell the difference. The writers appear to be using that episode as basis and justification for such a thing being possible, even though it's 10x more illogical to go from these super-alien-looking, marbled-mouthed klingons to humans than it is to go from the almost-human (in appearance, speech and mannerism) klingons of TOS.

 

[Cloned]

I’m interested to know where they’re going to take all this though. My guess is a lot of these storylines will get mostly wrapped up by seasons end. There’s a decent chance Lorca won’t be back if there is a second season, IMO.

 

[Quack Shot]

It would be great at if I can watch this show that I pay for without the app failing every five minutes

 

[Blender]

It would be so illogical for Tyler to be a Klingon (Voq?). There is no way he could mimic human idiosyncrasies so perfectly considering the rare interactions between humans and Klingons over the last century. It would be a plot twist for the sake of having a plot twist.

He's been locked in a cell for months with a cycle of new humans to study and mimic.

 

[tacogeoff]

That was the worst episode thus far for me. Sonequa's acting in the sick bay was atrocious and took me out of the show. Also starting to find the red head a annoying. Hopefully they can step it up next week.

 

[NyQuil]

Lorca was good in this episode. Isaacs is a good actor and he's doing the best he can with the material.

Burnham is a very challenging character to play, and I feel for Sonequa because playing a human who was raised as a Vulcan is difficult.

I think part of my issue with this show is that it really is "protagonist-driven" as opposed to "crew-driven".

They need to have episodes that focus on different characters to a greater degree, but I suspect that they have a narrative arc that they're trying to get through.

Not a big fan of this episode, but so it goes.

It would be a plot twist for the sake of having a plot twist.

I have the feeling that the big reveal was supposed to be the iconic moment of this show, and the fact that people already know is going to let out a lot of air out of that balloon.

You can't just put all of your eggs in the one basket.

 

[Blender]

That was the worst episode thus far for me. Sonequa's acting in the sick bay was atrocious and took me out of the show. Also starting to find the red head a annoying. Hopefully they can step it up next week.

I can't call it the worst because the two pilot episodes exist.

 

[tacogeoff]

I can't call it the worst because the two pilot episodes exist.

I personally felt the two pilot episodes presented better than this episode honestly. Jmo though

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

He's been locked in a cell for months with a cycle of new humans to study and mimic.

There is a big difference between studying somebody that is being held captive and someone that is not. You can definitely learn numerous things but those prisoners will never act like a free person would in a normal social setting.

I'm hoping that Tyler is actually a human working for the Klingons and there could a few reasons why that could be somewhat plausible. It would be better IMO than Tyler=Voq which I would find plain stupid but sadly, I agree with those that believe this will be the case.

 

[Osprey]

I heard today that it's been renewed for a second season, which comes as no surprise, since we knew before it started that Season 1 was already completely paid for (thanks to the Netflix deal and early All-Access subscriptions). I suspect that they waited a month to make it official for PR purposes.

Burnham is a very challenging character to play, and I feel for Sonequa because playing a human who was raised as a Vulcan is difficult.

I, too, feel for her. The character is truly bad, in design and in writing. Stripping the character of emotion can work if he or she is part of an ensemble cast, like Spock, Tuvok or Data. It was catastrophic misjudgment, IMO, to make such a character the main character that the show revolves around. There are, perhaps, a few actors who would know how to play this role and could pull it off, but she's certainly not one of them. Perhaps partly because of the difficulty of the role and partly because she's played only supporting characters before, she doesn't seem to have any idea how to play this character so that we have the connection that we should to a protagonist. In her defense, though, I don't think that the writers or producers do, either.

I think part of my issue with this show is that it really is "protagonist-driven" as opposed to "crew-driven".

I was thinking about the same thing while watching the episode. It's a big reason why it doesn't feel like Star Trek, which has always been crew-driven. There's a crew here, but they're treated as supporting characters for Burnham's story. They exist just to make her look smart and can be killed off and replaced at any moment with no real loss to the story.

I'm hoping that Tyler is actually a human working for the Klingons and there could a few reasons why that could be somewhat plausible. It would be better IMO than Tyler=Voq which I would find plain stupid but sadly, I agree with those that believe this will be the case.

It'd be rather clever if this were all misdirection and the internet were playing right into their devilish scheme. They could've cast Latif as both Tyler and Voq and then put up the fake imdb.com profile for no reason other than to trick the fanbase into developing wrong theories... and, then <surprise>, the twist becomes that there is no twist, after all, or that it's one that everyone missed because they were so focused on the "obvious" one. Unfortunately, everything so far suggests to me that the writers aren't that clever.

BTW, this brings up an interesting possibility. Did they make the Klingons so radically different and unrecognizable as humans in makeup largely because they came up with this plot twist early on and it would've been ruined if you could tell that Voq and Tyler were the same actor?

 

[Jumptheshark]

Blender, about your theory for Lt. Tyler...

(Major spoiler warning)

Spoiler

It appears that the same actor, Shazad Latif, plays both Tyler and Voq. Imdb.com lists a different actor for Voq, Javid Iqbal, but this "person" has Discovery as his only acting credit ever and the only photos of him are in makeup as Voq. Also, I'm reading that this Iqbal has never appeared on the promotional tour for the show, whereas Latif has appeared on the tour as a series regular, even though Lt. Tyler doesn't appear until episode 5. Also, before being re-cast as Tyler, Latif was cast as a Klingon named Kol.

Amusingly, when Latif was asked about Iqval, his response was "Well, yeah, if you check IMDb he’s an actor on Star Trek: Discovery." OK, that's a really odd thing to say about a fellow cast member. Then, when the interviewer asked whether we'd ever get to meet Iqval, the CBS publicist ended the interview. Haha.

https://trekmovie.com/2017/10/21/shazad-latif-responds-to-lt-tyler-star-trek-discovery-fan-theory/

Basically, it looks like CBS/Paramount made up this Iqbal person to try to disguise the fact that Latif plays both characters and that Tyler is Voq in disquise.

Articles on the subject:
https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/star-trek-discovery-voq-javid-iqbal/
https://www.avclub.com/this-star-trek-discovery-actor-might-not-actually-exis-1819635988

Article on last week's episode and the problems with it, especially the fact that Lorca looks like an idiot for trusting an obvious spy:
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/10/and-now-star-trek-discovery-has-lost-its-soul/

This makes me wonder how dumb the writers think that Star Trek fans are. Maybe it could be coincidence that the first episode without Voq in it is the first episode with Tyler in it, but didn't they think that we'd catch on pretty quickly when Voq, pretty heavily developed in the first four episodes, continues to be AWOL and never seen from again while Tyler becomes a show regular? This isn't a deceit that could possibly be sustained for very long at all, so it really makes me wonder what the writers were thinking.

Spoiler

if the is the case then Star Trek is ripping for Battlestar Galactica. And in this case they made it clear it was not the same character when it was announced after the sacking of the original writers--they said they liked his acting and wanted him to do more--if it turns out to be a trick--Trek loses points for not being creative. There are a total of 5 actors who change roles after the saking of the writers

but is in an interesting idea