Online Series: Star Trek: Discovery - Topic II

[chicagoskycam]

This is a historic problem for Star Trek. It's one DS9 avoided because the higher-ups paid more attention to Voyager, and that explains a lot of why DS9 was so good while Voyager was so lackluster.

Hopefully if the show survives they'll hone the edge and like all Star Treks (except TOS) it'll improve after Season 1 (or 2).

Well TNG went through so many writers and b.s. Gene was till on board then though.

 

[Very Stable Genius]

I'm really sad about this whole mess. I adore Star Trek and it's been ****ing mangled

 

[johnjm22]

There's a lot of negativity about this show right now.

BUT, we don't know how it will be until we actually see it. It could be great, it could be terrible. We don't know yet.

There was a lot of negativity and behind the scenes issues with TNG also, and look how that turned out.

 

[Blender]

There's a lot of negativity about this show right now.

BUT, we don't know how it will be until we actually see it. It could be great, it could be terrible. We don't know yet.

There was a lot of negativity and behind the scenes issues with TNG also, and look how that turned out.

The market has changed a bit though, if it does get off to a rocky start, will it be given the 2-3 years required to turn it around?

 

[Osprey]

Well TNG went through so many writers and b.s. Gene was till on board then though.

TNG used a lot of writers by choice, because it was an episodic show and the writing model back then, particularly for sci-fi, was about utilizing a wide variety of the brightest writers in the genre. It wasn't until the mid-90s, just as TNG was ending, that things in TV and sci-fi shifted to more serialized dramas that required the same writers to work on nearly every episode of the series.

The market has changed a bit though, if it does get off to a rocky start, will it be given the 2-3 years required to turn it around?

That's an understatement. The market and situation are completely different. TNG was able to endure in spite of two lackluster opening seasons because it was in syndication and Paramount ingeniously required networks to carry the new show if they wanted to air reruns of the original series. It paid off because hundreds of networks aired TNG, even if they didn't exactly want to, getting it into as many homes as possible. In contrast, it's like CBS/Paramount is trying to limit its audience by restricting Discovery to a single outlet (domestically) and charging the end user (rather than the middlemen, the networks) for it.

Also, TNG got good reviews, even in Season 1. This having an embargo on them before Season 1 even starts isn't exactly a great sign.

 

[chicagoskycam]

TNG used a lot of writers by choice, because it was an episodic show and the writing model back then, particularly for sci-fi, was about utilizing a wide variety of the brightest writers in the genre. It wasn't until the mid-90s, just as TNG was ending, that things in TV and sci-fi shifted to more serialized dramas that required the same writers to work on nearly every episode of the series.
.

Did you watch the doc... maybe it was directors but people were getting launched like crazy during the series. Similar stuff, some of it because Gene wouldn't allow conflict between the main cast.

 

[Osprey]

Did you watch the doc... maybe it was directors but people were getting launched like crazy during the series. Similar stuff, some of it because Gene wouldn't allow conflict between the main cast.

Yeah, it took a season or more for Roddenberry to find writers that understood the characters and what he wanted. I was just pointing out how that was still a bit different than shows (like Discovery) going through writers nowadays, since writers contributed scripts on a contractual or freelance basis. Episodes were mostly self-contained, so a writer didn't need so much to be "in the loop" or for there to be continuity between episodes. Nowadays, most shows are serialized and the writers are more important, since, unlike in the TOS and TNG days, they have huge individual impact on the quality of series, so their dismissal carries more significance and sends up more red flags. That's what I was getting at.

 

[Jumptheshark]

On a star trek forum it was pointed out this show is having some of the same problems. On Netflix there is a good doc done by Shatner of all people that goes deep into the fighting. Some of the same people are still involved

 

[TerminatorBlue]

I'm not holding my breath for this, they should have set it after DS9 and Voyager, they could have went in so many directions with the end of the Dominion war...etc maybe have some of the old cast make guest appearances.

Damn you CBS!

 

[johnjm22]

There are some reasons for optimism IMO.

-I think the premise of the show is great. It's a really interesting setup and I can see it leading to a lot of intriguing story lines. The premise is still Bryan Fuller's.

-The first two episodes are written by Fuller and Nicholas Meyer.

-CBS spared no expense on the show. With the per episode budget reported to be around 8M.

Considering this, how could the first couple episodes be that bad? If you're a Star Trek fan and you're not excited to see new Trek written by Nicholas Meyer you should probably check your pulse.

 

[offkilter]

8 million an episode? That alone is enough to justify not getting a second season. Even if it turns out to be a moderate to decent success there's no way any studio will justify spending that much. You would need GoT level numbers to justify that, and we all know Star Trek doesn't have that pulling power, at least not anymore.

 

[chicagoskycam]

With that budget..... Geeze, I'm not sold on the cast. I'm not signing up for another streaming site. I so wish Netflix or Amazon did this show.

 

[Blender]

8 million an episode? That alone is enough to justify not getting a second season. Even if it turns out to be a moderate to decent success there's no way any studio will justify spending that much. You would need GoT level numbers to justify that, and we all know Star Trek doesn't have that pulling power, at least not anymore.

Game of Thrones, or any HBO show, isn't judged strictly by ratings. I assume that will be the case here.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Game of Thrones, or any HBO show, isn't judged strictly by ratings. I assume that will be the case here.

Mmmmm, if it's not getting ratings + lackluster reviews. It's done. Should be fairly easy to judge how much it's getting watched once it's streaming only.

 

[Jumptheshark]

TNG used a lot of writers by choice, because it was an episodic show and the writing model back then, particularly for sci-fi, was about utilizing a wide variety of the brightest writers in the genre. It wasn't until the mid-90s, just as TNG was ending, that things in TV and sci-fi shifted to more serialized dramas that required the same writers to work on nearly every episode of the series.



That's an understatement. The market and situation are completely different. TNG was able to endure in spite of two lackluster opening seasons because it was in syndication and Paramount ingeniously required networks to carry the new show if they wanted to air reruns of the original series. It paid off because hundreds of networks aired TNG, even if they didn't exactly want to, getting it into as many homes as possible. In contrast, it's like CBS/Paramount is trying to limit its audience by restricting Discovery to a single outlet (domestically) and charging the end user (rather than the middlemen, the networks) for it.

Also, TNG got good reviews, even in Season 1. This having an embargo on them before Season 1 even starts isn't exactly a great sign.

I suggest you watch the doc on the show. It is a frank discussion and lays bare all the troubles. There is a scene where the producers put a sign up listing every writer involved in the first two years of generation. Even by Hollywood standard they went through a lot

 

[johnjm22]

David Mack has apparently actually seen portions of the show. He's a Star Trek novelist. He's not working on the show, and doesn't work for CBS. He has connections to the people working on Discovery.

 

[Blender]

Good to see a positive take on things.

 

[Blender]

I suggest you watch the doc on the show. It is a frank discussion and lays bare all the troubles. There is a scene where the producers put a sign up listing every writer involved in the first two years of generation. Even by Hollywood standard they went through a lot

It was hanging in Ronald D. Moore's bathroom. Ira Steven Behr tells the story about being brought to the room and shown the list and being blown away by the number of names.

 

[chicagoskycam]

Well he likes it, either way I won't be watching after the 1st couple of episodes so If I like it I will have to wait till it comes somewhere else. I mean, why not after the 1st season is done air it in some barely used time slot to get more viewers.

 

[Osprey]

If you're a Star Trek fan and you're not excited to see new Trek written by Nicholas Meyer you should probably check your pulse.

He's credited (at imdb.com) for writing only one episode... and that one episode is executive produced by the director, producer and writer on this year's The Mummy .

8 million an episode? That alone is enough to justify not getting a second season. Even if it turns out to be a moderate to decent success there's no way any studio will justify spending that much. You would need GoT level numbers to justify that, and we all know Star Trek doesn't have that pulling power, at least not anymore.

Surprisingly, Netflix's deal for just the international distribution rights reportedly nearly covers the cost and early subscriptions to All Access cover the rest, so at least the first season is already paid for. The question is whether Netflix will continue to pay that much for further seasons if the first isn't a success.

 

[chicagoskycam]

He's credited (at imdb.com) for writing only one episode... and that one episode is executive produced by the director, producer and writer on this year's The Mummy .



Surprisingly, Netflix's deal for just the international distribution rights reportedly nearly covers the cost and early subscriptions to All Access cover the rest, so at least the first season is already paid for. The question is whether Netflix will continue to pay that much for further seasons if the first isn't a success.

So this will be on Netflix eventually....

 

[wej20]

Do you get a month free when you sign up to the CBS streaming service?

 

[johnjm22]

Do you get a month free when you sign up to the CBS streaming service?

No it's just one week.

 

[wej20]

No it's just one week.

Interesting, Amazon Prime and Netflix you get a free month not sure about Hulu or any other streaming services.

 

[Cloned]

Welp, that twitter thread got me all excited.

Damn it.

Also, it's running on Space in Canada for free. So at least being in Canada has one advantage.