Online Series: Star Trek: Discovery - Topic II

[Ducks in a row]

Star Trek Discovery is not what I would call bold or good Star Trek or even a good series. Maybe it can become good but I have a feeling it wont become that good.

 

[Osprey]

Like I said, if that’s your opinion that’s fine. You’re only denying yourself the opportunity to witness and enjoy what could be potentially very good television. It’s not there yet, but I’m not writing it off because of things that IMO are ridiculous criticisms.

Why are they ridiculous criticisms, because you're fine with them? If people don't like something, then they don't like it. It's not ridiculous for them to not like something. By most accounts, The Wire is very good television, but I tried it and didn't like it. Am I just being ridiculous because what other people like is not what I like? You actually seem to be suggesting that, if people would simply ignore what they don't enjoy about Discovery, they would enjoy the series. Honestly, if anything is ridiculous, it's that, expecting other people to like what you like and, if they don't, then portraying it as close mindedness.

 

[Cloned]

Why are they ridiculous criticisms, because you're fine with them? If people don't like something, then they don't like it. It's not ridiculous for them to not like something. By most accounts, The Wire is very good television, but I tried it and didn't like it. Am I just being ridiculous because what other people like is not what I like? You actually seem to be suggesting that, if people would simply ignore what they don't enjoy about Discovery, they would enjoy the series. Honestly, if anything is ridiculous, it's that, expecting other people to like what you like and, if they don't, then portraying it as close mindedness.

Are you just purposely ignoring when I say "if that's your opinion, that's fine?"

Or when I specifically say "IMO, these are ridiculous criticisms", with an emphasis on IMO?

I'm not trying to tell you what to like. I'm saying that, to me, if these are the reasons why you don't like it, it seems like a ridiculous way of denying yourself the opportunity to enjoy what might become a pretty good Trek series. If you don't see it that way, I'm not personally offended. I do think it's close minded, but again that's only my opinion.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

I'm actually somewhat excited for tonight's episode after episode 3.

Still very critical and doubtful about this series, but there were enough good things to get me to tune in again.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

By most accounts, The Wire is very good television, but I tried it and didn't like it.

Not enjoying The Wire should mean your TV watching privileges get revoked permanently.

Sorry... The Wire fanboy inside me came out. I still haven't watched a television series that has captivated me like it did except for maybe SFU. PInnacle of television, IMO

 

[Cloned]

I'm actually somewhat excited for tonight's episode after episode 3.

Still very critical and doubtful about this series, but there were enough good things to get me to tune in again.

Episode 3 is what got me believing this might actually be a good series. The first two episodes were bad, but Episode 3 was a step (multiple steps, actually) in the right direction. Thankfully they got rid of Fuller.

 

[Osprey]

Are you just purposely ignoring when I say "if that's your opinion, that's fine?"

Or when I specifically say "IMO, these are ridiculous criticisms", with an emphasis on IMO?

I'm not trying to tell you what to like. I'm saying that, to me, if these are the reasons why you don't like it, it seems like a ridiculous way of denying yourself the opportunity to enjoy what might become a pretty good Trek series. If you don't see it that way, I'm not personally offended. I do think it's close minded, but again that's only my opinion.

I realize that those are your opinions, but you're calling other opinions ridiculous, from people who are not trying to tell you what to like any more than you're telling them. They're also not being condescending if you do enjoy the show, yet that's sort of what you've been doing by saying that people are close minded and robbing themselves and, especially, by saying, "you can give yourself permission to enjoy a new Trek series that feels different. It won't make you any less of a traditional/classic Trek fan." It's nothing personal, but you should expect to have to defend your comments when you say things like that. Repeatedly saying that it's your opinion doesn't make your criticisms immune from their own criticism.

Not enjoying The Wire should mean your TV watching privileges get revoked permanently.

Sorry... The Wire fanboy inside me came out. I still haven't watched a television series that has captivated me like it did except for maybe SFU. PInnacle of television, IMO

If it makes you feel better, I don't like crime shows. If I want to watch a show about good guys behaving badly in a dysfunctional institution, I have Discovery now

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Episode 3 is what got me believing this might actually be a good series. The first two episodes were bad, but Episode 3 was a step (multiple steps, actually) in the right direction. Thankfully they got rid of Fuller.

Yeah, I think that was the right decision based on what we've seen. Still wish it was an anthology series though.

 

[Cloned]

I realize that those are your opinions, but you're calling other opinions ridiculous, from people who are not trying to tell you what to like any more than you're telling them. They're also not being condescending if you do enjoy the show, yet that's sort of what you've been doing by saying that people are close minded and robbing themselves and, especially, by saying, "you can give yourself permission to enjoy a new Trek series that feels different. It won't make you any less of a traditional/classic Trek fan." It's nothing personal, but you should expect to have to defend your comments when you say things like that. Repeatedly saying that it's your opinion doesn't make your criticisms immune from their own criticism.

I can be overly verbose, which comes across as condescending, haha. Apologies.

But to the point, I only say that because I feel like that's what is holding a lot of people back from being open to the possibility of enjoying this series. People looked at the art/costume decisions early on, maybe the PR that the network was putting out, some of the way the series is presented as far as technology and visuals go, maybe some of the interpersonal conflicts, and automatically decided this wasn't Star Trek. That kind of mental barrier is a personal one, and if it's not something you can personally get over, that's obviously your right. I just feel like it's kind of ridiculous the way some people can dismiss a series out of hand because of some deep rooted fixation with canon or vision of what Trek should feel like.

I mean, I'll be honest too - I was kind of disappointed in the way the marketing for this series was handled, and dismayed at some of the concepts and rumours being leaked. I didn't like the first two episodes all that much. But I'm willing to give this a chance now, after Episode 3, which was much more coherently put together and much more polished.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I can be overly verbose, which comes across as condescending, haha. Apologies.

But to the point, I only say that because I feel like that's what is holding a lot of people back from being open to the possibility of enjoying this series. People looked at the art/costume decisions early on, maybe the PR that the network was putting out, some of the way the series is presented as far as technology and visuals go, maybe some of the interpersonal conflicts, and automatically decided this wasn't Star Trek. That kind of mental barrier is a personal one, and if it's not something you can personally get over, that's obviously your right. I just feel like it's kind of ridiculous the way some people can dismiss a series out of hand because of some deep rooted fixation with canon or vision of what Trek should feel like.

I mean, I'll be honest too - I was kind of disappointed in the way the marketing for this series was handled, and dismayed at some of the concepts and rumours being leaked. I didn't like the first two episodes all that much. But I'm willing to give this a chance now, after Episode 3, which was much more coherently put together and much more polished.

I didn't mind the look of it or some internal conflicts. It just seemed they went full out crazy in the pilot when probably you didn't need to. Very similar to some of the ridiculous stuff in the movies. People are probably even more critical in the U.S. as they used this show to push their streaming service. I know many long time Star Trek fans here who just refuse to watch due to having to pay for it so they came in to the pilot jaded in the 1st place. I didn't like the main character at all, her decisions and how the episode played out at all. I'll still probably watch it when the season ends some where unless I receive feedback the entire season is a disaster. It just doesn't feel like Star Trek at all. For an audience not as familiar with the series that may not matter but the point of shows like this is you already have a baked in audience.

 

[Cloned]

I didn't mind the look of it or some internal conflicts. It just seemed they went full out crazy in the pilot when probably you didn't need to. Very similar to some of the ridiculous stuff in the movies. People are probably even more critical in the U.S. as they used this show to push their streaming service. I know many long time Star Trek fans here who just refuse to watch due to having to pay for it so they came in to the pilot jaded in the 1st place. I didn't like the main character at all, her decisions and how the episode played out at all. I'll still probably watch it when the season ends some where unless I receive feedback the entire season is a disaster. It just doesn't feel like Star Trek at all. For an audience not as familiar with the series that may not matter but the point of shows like this is you already have a baked in audience.

I didn't like the pilot either. Episode 3 was better, and significantly so, I'd say.

Hoping tonight's episode builds on that momentum.

 

[Caeldan]

Episodes 3 and 4 are... Different.
I'm forgetting about 1 and 2, and just counting it as a standalone prequel.

Though, I'm still trying to figure out how to work the storyline into known canon... About the only thing I can see is if they take this in the direction of the founding of the Federation's black ops division.

Which, given current political climates, actually would be a solid Star Trek morality to follow.

 

[Cloned]

I'm sold. Episode 4 is pretty damn good. The only thing I'm going to criticize is the

Spoiler

sudden death of the security officer, which felt rushed and unnecessary - I would have liked to see more interplay between her character and Burnham's

, but otherwise this is as good as Trek gets.

 

[Tawnos]

I thought that episode was great.

@Cloned

Spoiler

She deserved it

Also

Spoiler

To me it’s pretty clear where they’re going with this tardigrade storyline as far as where it fits with the tech they have in TOS. There’s a large part of this that’s struggle for the soul of Starfleet. Obviously they’re not going to end up putting a life form through suffering in order to have instantaneous travel.

 

[Blender]

So the security chief is a f***ing moron after being presented as a pretty competent officer up until that point. That was some terrible and lazy writing just to get rid of her and for a death scene that wasn't tense or surprising (after she announced her ridiculous plan). This idiot was on board the USS Glenn and knows it's immune to phaser fire and is extremely dangerous when angry, but hey let's just drop the force field and shoot it to see what it does...

The Klingon parts were awful, embarrassingly so. Whomever decided this Klingon design with the rubber faces was a good idea needs to be fired. They can't emote when acting at all because they are wearing all those prosthetics, and they still...can't...speak...properly...at...all, and sound like they are spitting up the entire time. The whole plot with the Klingons this episode was boring and ridiculous, and if this is the quality of Klingon scenes we are getting, oh boy this will be bad.

I liked most of the Discovery scenes though. It wasn't perfect but a lot of it was at least engaging. Burnham is still a piece of shit, but at least we have seen her be a competent officer two episodes in a row now, which is a huge improvement from the incompetent officer and emotional wreck she was in the pilot.

 

[Ducks in a row]

I thought that episode was great.

@Cloned

Spoiler

She deserved it

Also

Spoiler

To me it’s pretty clear where they’re going with this tardigrade storyline as far as where it fits with the tech they have in TOS. There’s a large part of this that’s struggle for the soul of Starfleet. Obviously they’re not going to end up putting a life form through suffering in order to have instantaneous travel.

Spoiler #1

Spoiler

I can't say I disagree

Spoiler #2

Spoiler

Yeah no way does Starfleet use a life form like that for long term so it does explain why it wasn't present in the series that take place later. This kinda reminds me of Star Trek Voyager where the crew of the U.S.S. Equinox was killing a alien life form and using it to travel faster then normal to try to get home.

 

[Tawnos]

Guess we aren’t using spoiler tags.

Blender, Landry was portrayed as pretty arrogant from the beginning. Also, that was clearly a higher powered rifle than their regular weapons. She made a bad assumption about the sedation, which she was warned about, but being under a lot of pressure to get results causes people to do stupid things.

The Klingon is choppy, I agree. We will get used to it eventually.

 

[Blender]

Spoiler #2

Spoiler

Yeah no way does Starfleet use a life form like that for long term so it does explain why it wasn't present in the series that take place later. This kinda reminds me of Star Trek Voyager where the crew of the U.S.S. Equinox was killing a alien life form and using it to travel faster then normal to try to get home.

It doesn't just remind me of it, this is exactly the plot of Equinox.

 

[Blender]

Guess we aren’t using spoiler tags.

Blender, Landry was portrayed as pretty arrogant from the beginning. Also, that was clearly a higher powered rifle than their regular weapons. She made a bad assumption about the sedation, which she was warned about, but being under a lot of pressure to get results causes people to do stupid things.

The Klingon is choppy, I agree. We will get used to it eventually.

The episode is released, why would we use spoiler tags? That's not the policy for any other show on this board.

Arrogant yes, but she was't shown to be stupid last week. She already saw what this thing was capable of and should have known better before attempting the worst plan she possible could.

I will not get used to the Klingons if this is how they are. It's really bad, and I don't know how anyone can defend it.

 

[Ducks in a row]

So the security chief is a ****ing moron after being presented as a pretty competent officer up until that point. That was some terrible and lazy writing just to get rid of her and for a death scene that wasn't tense or surprising (after she announced her ridiculous plan). This idiot was on board the USS Glenn and knows it's immune to phaser fire and is extremely dangerous when angry, but hey let's just drop the force field and shoot it to see what it does...

The Klingon parts were awful, embarrassingly so. Whomever decided this Klingon design with the rubber faces was a good idea needs to be fired. They can't emote when acting at all because they are wearing all those prosthetics, and they still...can't...speak...properly...at...all, and sound like they are spitting up the entire time. The whole plot with the Klingons this episode was boring and ridiculous, and if this is the quality of Klingon scenes we are getting, oh boy this will be bad.

I liked most of the Discovery scenes though. It wasn't perfect but a lot of it was at least engaging. Burnham is still a piece of ****, but at least we have seen her be a competent officer two episodes in a row now, which is a huge improvement from the incompetent officer and emotional wreck she was in the pilot.

I agree she was a idiot but sometimes people do idiotic things especially during a time of war. She should of been smarter but her emotions got in the way that is only human.

I don't like anything about the Klingons from the show so far.

 

[Tawnos]

The episode is released, why would we use spoiler tags? That's not the policy for any other show on this board.

Arrogant yes, but she was't shown to be stupid last week. She already saw what this thing was capable of and should have known better before attempting the worst plan she possible could.

I will not get used to the Klingons if this is how they are. It's really bad, and I don't know how anyone can defend it.

You’ll note that I didn’t defend it.

How would anything possibly be spoiled if it hadn’t been released yet?

 

[Blender]

I agree she was a idiot but sometimes people do idiotic things especially during a time of war. She should of been smarter but her emotions got in the way that is only human.

If she were in the heat of battle and made a mistake and did something stupid, I'd be forgiving, but she could have taken a few minutes here to determine whether her plan was even viable. She suffers from the same problem I had with Burnham in the pilot, the way they had her act in this episode makes it unbelievable that she obtained the rank and senior position she held in the most ruthless meritocracy that is the world of Star Trek.

 

[Tawnos]

If she were in the heat of battle and made a mistake and did something stupid, I'd be forgiving, but she could have taken a few minutes here to determine whether her plan was even viable. She suffers from the same problem I had with Burnham in the pilot, the way they had her act in this episode makes it unbelievable that she obtained the rank and senior position she held in the most ruthless meritocracy that is the world of Star Trek.

You aren’t forgiving for the mistakes Burnham made in the heat of battle....

 

[Osprey]

Episode 4 may be the worst yet. Once again, Miss Know-It-All has the answer for everything and single-handedly saves the day while no one else on the ship appears to donate anything helpful.

Spoiler

Of course, the security officer, the one person on the ship who ought to know better, decides to let the monster out with nothing but a phaser rifle, even though half a dozen rifles couldn't even slow it down just the other day. Later, Burnham decides to let the force field down, herself, with Tilly behind her, potentially dooming her to death, all on a hunch. Predictably, the hunch turns out to be spectacularly right, even though the monster can barely see and can't sense the spores because she hasn't opened the container yet.

Of course, the monster turns out to be a kitty cat that only Burnham is smart enough to tame. We're led to believe that it attacks only in self defense, even though, in the very last episode, it attacked a Klingon from behind, chased the Discovery officers down a long corridor before grabbing one of them from behind and then busted through a wall just to try to get at them. Naturally, that doesn't seem to matter to the writers, making it an aggressive killer when they need it to be and then a docile pet when that suits their storytelling.

Even dumber than that is the notion that this space monster has a chart of the galaxy in its head and can talk to the spores to get them to travel anywhere that they want. Even if you can somehow buy that, was it at all explained how they utilized it? No. They established that it can talk to the spores, but, if so, wouldn't that require the humans to gain the monster's cooperation in some way? They just hooked it up and, instantly, they were ready to fly anywhere, as though it were a missing crystal. It also looked ridiculous in the chamber and I guess that we're meant to use our imagination about how they got it in there.

There are, of course, many other issues that have been complained about in previous episodes. Burnham is still smug and a jerk, the Klingon scenes are still extremely tedious and boring and so on. I'm becoming more convinced that these writers don't know how to write a good show. It's like they're stumbling around, trying to copy other shows, like Game of Thrones (ex. killing off a character every other episode) and doing it all wrong.

It doesn't just remind me of it, this is exactly the plot of Equinox.

I don't believe that I remember that episode, but I was thinking to myself that it seemed very much like the kind of episodes that Voyager had.

 

[Blender]

You aren’t forgiving for the mistakes Burnham made in the heat of battle....

Burnham was making mistakes long before there was any battle.