Sportsnet: Trouba Requests Trade - Part III

[kylbaz]

The problem with the Wings is they don't have much depth with their prospects. For the most part they would be digging one hole to fill another. They're always all over Nyquist and Smith for Trouba. They love their member barries "member when Nyquist scored 27 goals, memeber". "Member when Smith was a first rounder, so much misused potential, member". Fact is they want to trade Nyquist because he had a down year last year and want 27 goal value. Smith is a 6/7 because of talent and the reality of how he has been used but he would go to the Jets and be a top 4 for sure for some reason . Try a Perrault and Postma for Dekeyser and see how they feel about that. Close to an equivalent the other way. Any deal that doesn't include Larkin from the Wings is a waste of time.

I follow the Wings and Jets.

What about a three way with someone? Detroit 1st + Prospect

 

[sully1410]

What about a three way with someone? Detroit 1st + Prospect

....not even gonna touch it.

 

[Guffman]

If he changes his mind and wants to sign long-term in Winnipeg he's going to have to sign a pretty team-friendly deal to make up for pulling this ****.

I bet I'm not the only fan who feels that way, either.

I doubt that happens. If it goes down that path, he'll sign for market value and we'll just get over it lol.

BTW, I agree with one agent's approach to leave a little bit of money on the table. The team and fans will love a player that seemingly outperforms a contract by a bit than one who is viewed as sucking a valuable resource.

I don't think that's the path that Overcharge will be taking with this.

 

[Guffman]

No it's not.....There are disgruntled players playing for every team all the time. Kane wanted out of Winnipeg for years yet he was a pro, put his head down, and brought it every night. If you think the Jets give a **** about where Trouba lands and whether he is happy or not I have swamp land to sell to you. Jets will work hard to maximize their value and that is where the happy story ends for Jacob. the good news is he will get paid stupid cash.

Sure, the Jets wouldn't care whether Trouba is happy with his trade destination as long as the Jets get their desired trade bounty. BUT...a team is not giving up a big trade bounty if they know the player will be disgruntled playing for them. That is why I don't think the trade market is that wide for him.

Example...say three years from now, Matthews says he wants to be traded to a major US market. Would you support the Jets matching the Leafs presumably high trade demands for him to acquire Matthews? Heck no. You're just inheriting the headache from the Leafs that you now have to deal with. If a player is going to be disgruntled playing for you, I wouldn't be giving up premier assets to acquire him.

 

[ffh]

Sure, the Jets wouldn't care whether Trouba is happy with his trade destination as long as the Jets get their desired trade bounty. BUT...a team is not giving up a big trade bounty if they kniw the player will be disgruntled playing for them. That is why I don't think the trade market is that wide for him.

Example...say three years from now, Matthews says he wants to be traded to a major US market. Would you support he Jets matching the Leafs presumably high trade demands for him to acquire Matthews? Heck no. You're just inheriting the headache from the Leafs that you now have to deal with. If a player is going to be disgruntled playing for you, I wouldn't be giving up premier assets to acquire him.

I tried all day yesterday to make this point no one is buying it. It seems so obvious.

 

[mcpw]

Trouba has control over his destinations. That was established about 1k posts ago.

 

[TS Quint]

What about a three way with someone? Detroit 1st + Prospect

I feel I'm fairly balanced on my Red Wing homerism, so if you had an idea and cared what I thought I'll tell you. I'm not big on the Wings current prospects. I consider Mantha, Anthanasiou and Svechnikov to be decent but not top notch prospects. Mantha and Svechnikov could still bust. Anthanasiou might never be more than a useful 3rd liner. They have next to nothing for defense prospects.

If the Wings wanted to trade for a Dman the Ducks would probably be a better partner for them. With the decline of Kronwall the Wings probably care a lot less which hand the Dman shoots, they need talent more than anything. Their D sucks.

 

[surixon]

I tried all day yesterday to make this point no one is buying it. It seems so obvious.

It's not obvious because very rarely are teams allowed to talk to players prior to trading for them. Do you think Buffalo was allowed to talk to Kane prior to dealing for him or was Winnipeg allowed to talk to Myers.

There is also the fact that teams will still try to acquire talent even if it doesn't want to play for them. Look no further than the Heatley trade out of Ottawa. Edmonton offered a better package than San Jose and even sent it's management and owner to visit Heatley to try to convince him to go there. Ultimately Heatley vetoed the trade with his NMC (Something Trouba doesn't have). But that goes to show you that organizations will chase talent and deal with the ramifications of an unhappy player later. Edmonton had the deal on the table and Heatley would have been an Oiler had he not had a NTC his feelings be damned.

 

[Bob E]

Trouba has control over his destinations. That was established about 1k posts ago.

I don't follow this line of thinking. He can refuse to sign somewhere else, but he doesn't have control over where he goes. Another team can be scared off by that, or not. They may feel "once he's here, he'll like it and resign with us".

Did RJ have control of where he went? Did Turris control where he went? He won't control where he goes for another 4 years.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I tried all day yesterday to make this point no one is buying it. It seems so obvious.

If you're lumping me into the "no one is buying it" side of things, it's because you're having a different discussion than I am. My point has always been that I would prefer to see them make no moves until a contract is signed, period. I am OK with Trouba sitting to make the point. I am OK with losing a year on his contract if it goes beyond Dec 1st. I'm looking at it from a long term position regarding RFA's and their "Restricted" FA clauses.

If someone drops a sweetheard deal into Chevy's lap, where it appears we either come out ahead, or strengthen our own roster in some manner, I'm fine with that happening. Barring that: let him sit.

 

[mcpw]

I don't follow this line of thinking. He can refuse to sign somewhere else, but he doesn't have control over where he goes. Another team can be scared off by that, or not. They may feel "once he's here, he'll like it and resign with us".

Did RJ have control of where he went? Did Turris control where he went? He won't control where he goes for another 4 years.

Every team can talk to Trouba's agent as long as he remains unsigned.

Another team won't feel "once he's here, he'll like it and sign with us". Because if he doesn't want to, he won't even be there.

Johansen and Turris were signed, so they had no control. When and if Trouba signs, he loses control over his destination.

I tried all day yesterday to make this point no one is buying it. It seems so obvious.

You were arguing about a signed Trouba illegally talking to other teams' GMs [mod]

 

[Aavco Cup]

If Trouba signs and is traded to an undesirable place his only option is to report or stop playing hockey.

He can get to UFA and take control by signing for less than 4 years and then using the arb process to get there. He doesn't have the right to determine his fate yet.

 

[Rheged]

The way this has been handled strongly suggests he is trying to maintain control over where he is traded to.

 

[Aavco Cup]

The way this has been handled strongly suggests he is trying to maintain control over where he is traded to.

It won't work IMO. Chevy will not be bullied

 

[Weezeric]

I hope trouba decides to stay. Our defence would be really great I think...

Trouba-buff
Enstrom-Myers
Jmo-postma

 

[Rheged]

It won't work IMO. Chevy will not be bullied

Mmhmm, and I doubt our management is alone in this. Obviously teams are always looking to add quality players for lower value, but I don't think anyone wants a precedent set where a player coming off an ELC was able to dictate being traded and the destination.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

I tried all day yesterday to make this point no one is buying it. It seems so obvious.

The reason nobody's buying it is because it's a flawed premise. If I'm a gm who wants to trade for Trouba's rights, I'm going to talk to Overcharge and see if the kid's going to play for me or not. If he's willing, I'm going to work out contract details and then call Chevy.
He doesn't have a contract, and that means anybody is free to talk to him about what he wants. Nobody at all is going to trade for his rights and then find out whether or not he's willing to sign and for what price.

Seems like you wasted a whole day.

 

[ffh]

If you're lumping me into the "no one is buying it" side of things, it's because you're having a different discussion than I am. My point has always been that I would prefer to see them make no moves until a contract is signed, period. I am OK with Trouba sitting to make the point. I am OK with losing a year on his contract if it goes beyond Dec 1st. I'm looking at it from a long term position regarding RFA's and their "Restricted" FA clauses.

If someone drops a sweetheard deal into Chevy's lap, where it appears we either come out ahead, or strengthen our own roster in some manner, I'm fine with that happening. Barring that: let him sit.

If trouba had a list of 10 teams and i stress if,that he would not welcome a trade to and told chevy that in may and then he signs in dec chevy would not make a deal with 1 of those teams. Im sorry he would not. Chevy could tell one of those gms to talk to overhart to maybe get him to change his mind. What is the point of negotiating with a team when the 1st question that gm will ask you is would he be happy here. Does he want to come.

 

[Lempo]

I wish I understood where this Trouba Sr. storyline came from.

There's been an amount of "it's not about Winni" and "it's not about the RD" and "it's not game related at all" to suggest that Trouba's demanding of trade is foremostly because his family wants it. Within that context his daddy-o as someone who has publicly talked about J:T as a "brand", who has told "sports" and "advertising" as his field of profession in his social media, and who is one of the mastermind behind the Trouba's Own App setup kind of emerges. Overhardt has been a somewhat curious choice for J:T's agent to be the player's own pick.

 

[ffh]

The reason nobody's buying it is because it's a flawed premise. If I'm a gm who wants to trade for Trouba's rights, I'm going to talk to Overcharge and see if the kid's going to play for me or not. If he's willing, I'm going to work out contract details and then call Chevy.
He doesn't have a contract, and that means anybody is free to talk to him about what he wants. Nobody at all is going to trade for his rights and then find out whether or not he's willing to sign and for what price.

Seems like you wasted a whole day.

Thanks thats my point glad you agree with me.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

If trouba had a list of 10 teams and i stress if,that he would not welcome a trade to and told chevy that in may and then he signs in dec chevy would not make a deal with 1 of those teams. Im sorry he would not. Chevy could tell one of those gms to talk to overhart to maybe get him to change his mind. What is the point of negotiating with a team when the 1st question that gm will ask you is would he be happy here. Does he want to come.

I really don't understand how this relates to my position.

 

[drumzan]

Maybe this has been discussed already, but this seems to be a typical Overhardt tactic. How long before GMs start looking at him as a detriment, and pass on his clients (not top fivers) during the draft, and kids start plummeting to the second and third round because of it. I could eventually see players not signing on with him, as he's just not worth the headache. Goodbye Kurt!

There's a baseball agent that many teams won't deal with. I'm not a baseball fan, so I don't remember who that is. Scott Boras maybe? Anyway, point is it does prove it can happen in sports.

 

[Guffman]

It's not obvious because very rarely are teams allowed to talk to players prior to trading for them. Do you think Buffalo was allowed to talk to Kane prior to dealing for him or was Winnipeg allowed to talk to Myers.

There is also the fact that teams will still try to acquire talent even if it doesn't want to play for them. Look no further than the Heatley trade out of Ottawa. Edmonton offered a better package than San Jose and even sent it's management and owner to visit Heatley to try to convince him to go there. Ultimately Heatley vetoed the trade with his NMC (Something Trouba doesn't have). But that goes to show you that organizations will chase talent and deal with the ramifications of an unhappy player later. Edmonton had the deal on the table and Heatley would have been an Oiler had he not had a NTC his feelings be damned.

Since Trouba is not under contract, Overhardt can freely talk to all teams and express Trouba's interest/disinterest to them. If the Oilers were interested and had a chat with Overhardt about Trouba's willingness and contract demands, and Overhardt said, "Meh, not the right opportunity for my client", the Oilers would pull out and not offer a good deal to Winnipeg.

 

[ffh]

I really don't understand how this relates to my position.

Responded to you by mistake. Was trying to answer someone else.

 

[Guffman]

If Trouba signs and is traded to an undesirable place his only option is to report or stop playing hockey.

He can get to UFA and take control by signing for less than 4 years and then using the arb process to get there. He doesn't have the right to determine his fate yet.

So, why are we discussing Trouba at all? When it comes right down to it, he really has to sign with the Jets by December 1 and we don't have to trade him.

In both situations, you have to be worried about whether he is going to be a continual distraction for the team. The Jets stated this year that they are really only interested in keeping players that want to be a Jet. Presumably, other teams share that mindset.

Forcing players to play for you is just not an ideal situation.