Blue Jays Discussion: Spending money on FA's?! Yes you read that correctly (Russell Martin signs $82M/5)

[King Mapes]

What about the back too

 

[JimmySpaetzle]

What about the back too

Looks pretty real to me

 

[New Liskeard]

Not sure how an ace, who could just as easily get injured himself, somehow improves depth. If a pitcher comes in then another pitcher will go out.

So all the current pitchers on the staff, none deserve to sit and allow Lester a spot? If a team has a chance to pick up a legit ace, its a no brainer. Saying the Jays have a deep rotation and don't need an Ace is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Woodman19]

So all the current pitchers on the staff, none deserve to sit and allow Lester a spot? If a team has a chance to pick up a legit ace, its a no brainer. Saying the Jays have a deep rotation and don't need an Ace is beyond ridiculous.

We have a legitimate Ace, Stroman's numbers prorated over a full season put him in the same company as Scherzer and those numbers should only get better with a good pitch framer behind the plate now in Martin.

 

[Eyedea]

So all the current pitchers on the staff, none deserve to sit and allow Lester a spot? If a team has a chance to pick up a legit ace, its a no brainer. Saying the Jays have a deep rotation and don't need an Ace is beyond ridiculous.

It improves talent, no doubt, but that doesn't improve depth like you alluded to. If Lester comes in, someone is being dealt. If someone is injured the Jays are still grabbing a guy from Buffalo.

 

[Drew311]

We have a legitimate Ace, Stroman's numbers prorated over a full season put him in the same company as Scherzer and those numbers should only get better with a good pitch framer behind the plate now in Martin.

Wow. No pressure, Marcus.

A legitimate ace after 20 starts. Who knew it was so easy?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Wow. No pressure, Marcus.

People penciled Sonny Gray in as Oaklands ace after 10 starts.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

It improves talent, no doubt, but that doesn't improve depth like you alluded to. If Lester comes in, someone is being dealt. If someone is injured the Jays are still grabbing a guy from Buffalo.

You have to assume that a minimum of one of Dickey and his personal catcher ($13.75m), Buehrle ($20m) or Happ ($6.7m) would indeed be gone.

 

[Jaysfanatic*]

You have to assume that a minimum of one of Dickey and his personal catcher ($13.75m), Buehrle ($20m) or Happ ($6.7m) would indeed be gone.

Should be trick pitch Dick.

 

[Drew311]

People penciled Sonny Gray in as Oaklands ace after 10 starts.

Stroman still needs to prove that he can adjust to teams having faced him a couple of times. A lot of good young pitchers dominate in their first 5 - 10 starts (as Stroman did) because there isn't a great scouting report on him. I'm going to give him another full season before I start throwing to ace word around.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Should be trick pitch Dick.

Or R.A. The Rugged man for the veterans.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Stroman still needs to prove that he can adjust to teams having faced him a couple of times. A lot of good young pitchers dominate in their first 5 - 10 starts (as Stroman did) because there isn't a great scouting report on him. I'm going to give him another full season before I start throwing to ace word around.

Name them; the individuals you speak of who accumulated a similar amount of production to Stroman, with close to or equivalent SIERA\FIP and K/BB ratios, who then proceeded to not pitch at the top of rotation for a reason other than catastrophic injury.

I'll wait.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Yeah, there's a difference between someone who pitches like an ace for half a year, and an actual ace.

An ace is proven, he's known to do it, and repeat it. Stro certainly could do that, and I'll be half disappointed if he doesn't, but to call him an ace at this point when he's only proven himself for half a year, I think is jumping the gun

 

[Jaysfanatic*]

He's at the stage where he's prepubACEnt.

 

[Eyedea]

Tanaka is an ace.

 

[Jaysfanatic*]

Tanaka is a headcACE.

 

[weems]

We have a legitimate Ace, Stroman's numbers prorated over a full season put him in the same company as Scherzer and those numbers should only get better with a good pitch framer behind the plate now in Martin.

Wow seddle down bro.

I'm a huge Stroman fan but the guy doesnt even have 30 starts to his name yet. An ace is someone to me whos proven to be elite or close too for a big sample size.

 

[Drew311]

Name them; the individuals you speak of who accumulated a similar amount of production to Stroman, with close to or equivalent SIERA\FIP and K/BB ratios, who then proceeded to not pitch at the top of rotation for a reason other than catastrophic injury.

I'll wait.

Off the top of my head.....Drew Smyly, Jarred Cosart, Shelby Miller....do you want me to actually start researching and come up with a longer list?

 

[Eyedea]

Cosart, that's a good one.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Off the top of my head.....Drew Smily, Jarred Cosart, Shelby Miller....do you want me to actually start researching and come up with a longer list?

None of those three fit the criteria. Each had SIERA's and FIP's significantly higher than Stroman's in their first forays into starting. They each also have K/BB ratios far lower than Stroman's.

Don't need a list, I'll just take one.

 

[Tony Romo]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m1 minute ago
Two issues for #BlueJays if they make offer to Sandoval, as @nickcafardo expects. 1.) Won’t go beyond 5 years. 2.) Likely need to overpay.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago
#BlueJays’ policy limits deals to 5 years, and Sandoval might get 6 from SF or BOS. Also: Not easy for TOR to lure FAs. Martin an exception.

update

 

[dredeye]

update

Don't want Sandoval for five years so I'm good with that

 

[Galchenioretty]

Kyle lowry

 

[Jaysfanatic*]

Ken Rosenthal
Source: #BlueJays “in the mix” for Sandoval, as first reported by @nickcafardo. See my earlier tweets, which outlined obstacles Jays face.

So they're in it, somehow.

 

[Drew311]

None of those three fit the criteria. Each had SIERA's and FIP's significantly higher than Stroman's in their first forays into starting. They each also have K/BB ratios far lower than Stroman's.

Don't need a list, I'll just take one.

If you don't agree that those three pitchers had very good starts to their careers and couldn't consistently put together that type of production over the last couple of seasons then there isn't much point in arguing.

You'll have a hard time convincing me to put 100% of my confidence in Stroman putting up an Ace-like season in 2015 as a 23 year old with 130 innings of big league experience. I have faith in him long term, but I'm not prepared to go all in on him based on how unreal he was at times last season.