Some positive signs: DRW statistics

[JmanWingsFan]

Would love to see you answer his question.

Don't think you can.

I don't believe you've comprehended what I've said. I did answer his question.

 

[Syckle78]

Serious question: why are you on a message board where the only reason the board exists is for hard core fans discuss all aspects of the Detroit Red Wings organization? If you seriously believe everyone has no basis for an opinion then why come to a site where 99% of content is fan opinion on the team? That sounds like a humongous waste of time. Why not just read Helene St James' articles to tell you everything you need to know and save yourself a whole bunch of time?

So he can ***** about posters and cry about refs. I thought that was obvious.

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

I don't believe you've yet to comprehend what I've said. I did answer his question.

No you did not.

Instead of assuming everyone on this site is a fickle bandwagon fan with no hockey knowledge have you ever pondered the very real possibility that that you may be... wrong?

 

[Frk It]

It blows my mind that Mike Babcock has watched Danny Cleary play 21 games this year and he continues to put him out there for the amount of minutes he does.

Dan Cleary should not see 1 minute of a top 6 line at even strength at this point.

Not even if we have 10 guys hurt.

Not even if there's a fire.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

It blows my mind that Mike Babcock has watched Danny Cleary play 21 games this year and he continues to put him out there for the amount of minutes he does.

Dan Cleary should not see 1 minute of a top 6 line at even strength at this point.

Not even if we have 10 guys hurt.

Not even if there's a fire.

:

 

[Frk It]

:

That one was just for you

 

[Syckle78]

:

That dead horse would be more valuable than Cleary.

 

[Brick Top]

It is my opinion that forming opinions on matters that we have little information on and then using such matters we have little information on to justify bashing the brass is also quite ignorant and foolish to do so.

To paraphrase: You think we have very little information on team issues, and therefore should not use said little information as the basis to bash team decisions.

Of course, this line of "reasoning" makes it downright impossible to ever criticize the team, b/c of course the fans never know 100% of the factors in any given situation. So we should just be okay with any decision BFFGMKH and Babs make, b/c after all, who are we to criticize them? Regardless of how those decisions are playing out on the ice, of course. Seems like a pretty accurate summation of your position.

So if you cannot form an opinion on your own and then try to explain your opinion why should you participate? What's the point? Why not just read Holland and Babcock's quotes, nod solemnly to yourself, and wait for the next hockey game.

Seems like fabricoh is simply re-hashing your belief that we shouldn't criticize the Wings or their decisions. And that belief is basically saying you approve of what ever the official team position is on any issue. So your opinion really isn't your own, it's just Jman rubber-stamping the Wings twitter feed and press conference statements. This also seems pretty accurate.

I don't believe you've yet to comprehend what I've said. I did answer his question.

I don't think I can emphasize enough how much I LOVE this response! This is such a great line, I should probably ask your permission to use it... err, hold on a second...

I just realized that your wording of "don't believe you've yet to comprehend" is actually saying that Forty DOES comprehend your statement (curse my reading comprehension ability, right?! ). Here's guessing that you were shooting for either "do believe you've yet to comprehend" or simply "you've yet to comprehend"... I'm afraid the judges are gonna have to mark you down for it.

 

[Flowah]

It's okay, we've seen previously that neither logic, nor 1st grade level spelling/grammar are his strong suits.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

To paraphrase: You think we have very little information on team issues, and therefore should not use said little information as the basis to bash team decisions.

Nope. That's not what I said. I said It's my opinion that you look stupid bashing the brass utilizing inadequate information. You can bash the brass. You just look ignorant, uniformed, and foolish to do so.

Of course, this line of "reasoning" makes it downright impossible to ever criticize the team,

It doesn't mean you can't question decisions made. I've done it before. Many times. I don't go around bashing the brass for its decisions mainly because I'm not being payed money to make decisions and I don't have all the situations.

b/c of course the fans never know 100% of the factors in any given situation.

So why do you act like you know 100% of the time what the right decision is?

So we should just be okay with any decision BFFGMKH and Babs make, b/c after all, who are we to criticize them?

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.â€

You're right. What right do you have to criticize their decisions when you've put forth 0% of any effort into managing a hockey team, coaching them day and night, making sure you have all the matchups, managing lines, trying to make that trade, trying to sign that guy. You've never once done any of that. How do you know enough to level a legitimate criticism?

That doesn't mean I don't question what they do. Why does Cleary get a lot of Ice time, and why does Tatar not get top six minutes? Why is Nyquist in the AHL? Why was Lashoff getting considerable time on the top pair? Why did we sign Samuelsson? Why did we give up a first for Quincey? Why is Abdelkader getting top six minutes when he's not suited for that role? Why? This all seems counterproductive and stupid to me. But I'm not the coach. I'm not the Manager. I'm not going to pretend I have the knowledge or expertise that Holland and Babcock possess. Perhaps they have legitimate methods to their madness. Maybe they don't, and they're just acting senile. I can't read their minds. I'd sure love to. But I can't. I didn't put together a Stanley Cup winning roster, but Ken Holland did. I didn't coach teams to various forms of Hockey Championships. Mike Babcock did. I don't have the right to say they are stupid and they don't know what they're doing. I haven't put forth any effort into doing what they are doing. Neither has 100% of Red Wings fans here have come anywhere close to doing what GMKH and Coach Babcock have done. I'll question them. But saying they suck and don't know what they're doing is asinine in every sense of the word.

Seems like fabricoh is simply re-hashing your belief that we shouldn't criticize the Wings or their decisions. And that belief is basically saying you approve of what ever the official team position is on any issue.

This is wrong. You know what I've said. I don't approve of some of the moves they make. But I don't know what they're thinking either, so I can't form a legitimate opinion on the matter.

So your opinion really isn't your own, it's just Jman rubber-stamping the Wings twitter feed and press conference statements. This also seems pretty accurate.

It's more or less the entitled selfish are trying to impose a strawman on me, because I dare to question the legitimacy of their ability to raise insults and go overboard with criticisms.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Point
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Your head

Nice answer. Since my question was obviously too difficult for you to answer, here's two real specific questions for you. Since you follow the DRW so closely you know Mike Babcock wanted Brendan Smith in Detroit last season, while Ken Holland wanted him in Grand Rapids.

1. Whom do you side with as far as where Smith should have played last season?
2. Does Ken Holland have special stats he doesn't share with Mike Babcock?

Good luck.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Nice answer. Since my question was obviously too difficult for you to answer, here's two real specific questions for you. Since you follow the DRW so closely you know Mike Babcock wanted Brendan Smith in Detroit last season, while Ken Holland wanted him in Grand Rapids.

1. Whom do you side with as far as where Smith should have played last season?
2. Does Ken Holland have special stats he doesn't share with Mike Babcock?

Good luck.

I'm going to answer your question with a series of questions.

First question:

Of what effect does and did Ken Holland's moves have on you? Did they cause you bodily harm? Did it cause someone close to you to die? Did it cause you to go bankrupt? Did you contract a terrible disease like leukemia/malaria or an irreversible serious condition like paralysis or internal bleeding? Did it cause your house to be utterly destroyed and left you and your family homeless for the rest of your life?

Or

Has it caused you no known serious conditions or serious life altering problems of long lasting effect?

If it did cause you some sort of serious problem, I might be able to resonate with our unfortunate situation and understand why you want to hurl insults at him. This is serious, and GMKH deserves to be fired over this.

If it didn't, then why the heck are you complaining and savaging his name, something you wouldn't really do to another individual, especially someone you see everyday?

If your answer to the above question is "because it's preventing them from winning," then my question is what does them winning have anything to do with your well-being. You aren't a GM, you aren't a coach, you aren't a player. You aren't collecting any sort of check that would tie the team's success to you. What difference does it make if they win or lose? We've already established by now you aren't being caused any serious inhumane harm by what this team is doing. So obviously whether they're winning or losing, the outcome is that you're still alive and kicking, have shelter, food, and a steady income, and maybe a family that you support or supports you.

If your answer to the above is "I'm a fan and I want to see them win," then why are you choosing to be some a foolish and selfish masochist? This is all your fault for throwing your support behind an organization that makes questionable decisions that you think are brainless. This isn't the organizations fault, it's yours. You're just inflicting pain on yourself, because we've established the organization has not caused you any notable harm. You're the one choosing to watch them. You're the one who hates the decisions this team makes.

Well?

 

[Vladdy84]

Cleary is leading the league in heart and determination.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'm going to answer your question with a series of questions.

First question:

Of what effect does and did Ken Holland's moves have on you? Did they cause you bodily harm? Did it cause someone close to you to die? Did it cause you to go bankrupt? Did you contract a terrible disease like leukemia/malaria or an irreversible serious condition like paralysis or internal bleeding? Did it cause your house to be utterly destroyed and left you and your family homeless for the rest of your life?

Or

Has it caused you no known serious conditions or serious life altering problems of long lasting effect?

If it did cause you some sort of serious problem, I might be able to resonate with our unfortunate situation and understand why you want to hurl insults at him. This is serious, and GMKH deserves to be fired over this.

If it didn't, then why the heck are you complaining and savaging his name, something you wouldn't really do to another individual, especially someone you see everyday?

If your answer to the above question is "because it's preventing them from winning," then my question is what does them winning have anything to do with your well-being. You aren't a GM, you aren't a coach, you aren't a player. You aren't collecting any sort of check that would tie the team's success to you. What difference does it make if they win or lose? We've already established by now you aren't being caused any serious inhumane harm by what this team is doing. So obviously whether they're winning or losing, the outcome is that you're still alive and kicking, have shelter, food, and a steady income, and maybe a family that you support or supports you.

If your answer to the above is "I'm a fan and I want to see them win," then why are you choosing to be some a foolish and selfish masochist? This is all your fault for throwing your support behind an organization that makes questionable decisions that you think are brainless. This isn't the organizations fault, it's yours. You're just inflicting pain on yourself, because we've established the organization has not caused you any notable harm. You're the one choosing to watch them. You're the one who hates the decisions this team makes.

Well?

Oh my, look at the l'il fishy squirming around on the hook. Hasn't answered a single question yet. Trying to make it look like he's got a response that isn't laughably inadequate. Still waiting on a single answer from you. Let's wrap this up, shall we?

Here's the thing: we come here to discuss the Detroit Red Wings. It's a simple concept, if you think long and hard enough I think you can grasp this incredibly simple concept. Yes, even you. We've had some special people over the 6.5 years I've been here and you my friend are among the most special.

How so? You come to a message board whose sole purpose is to talk about and opine on the DRW franchise and tell everyone they have no right to express an opinion. When I question why you're even here you post some nonsensical reply. I am being very PC in calling it nonsensical.

So I try to engage you a bit more by pointing out the coach and general manager had differing feelings on the use of Brendan Smith. So who should we blindly support, JMan? Is it possible for you to think about this DRW related topic and possibly have some view that is your own? I mean Mike Babcoack and Ken Holland had differing opinions! How is this possible? I am clearly asking too much from you based on your replies to date as you haven't answered a single question.

So to play along with your oh so clever game, no Brendan Smith being in Grand Rapids last year did not harm me. Did it harm Mike Babcock? Did it harm Brendan Smith? Did it harm the Detroit Red Wings? Do you care? I have been here over the past 6.5 years to offer up my opinion on the Detroit Red Wings. That's why I'm here on a regular basis. If I honestly believed what you believe that we are not capable of coming up with our own opinions - and oh thank God I'm not that special - I wouldn't spend a minute here arguing with people who are in a place that exists solely for those people to express their opinions.

Since it's obvious you are incapable of answering my questions I see no point in engaging you in debate. I have no problem with disagreements, but when someone exhibits troll-like behavior I simply don't have the patience or frankly interest in engaging in post after post where there is no capacity for intelligent debate.

 

[Heaton]

Well this thread is way off topic now. Take it to PMs.