So Bernier leads the NHL in win/point shares this year

  • Thread starter Count Von Grabo*
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Count Von Grabo*

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http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/ps_top_10.html


take it for what it's worth. tbh I'm not sure if it's a legit stat or not. was just browsing on hockey reference, and it caught my eye


Bernier- 10.53
Varlamamov-10.45
Price-10.42
Crosby-10.22
Bishop-10
Miller-9.77
Rask-9.38
Getzlaf-9.07
Perry-8.66


Again, just posting cause it caught my eye. Also how good has Atlantic division goaltending been?
 

SprDaVE

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Sep 20, 2008
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Interesting. Most players in the list, even the ones closer to #10, going back for decades were basically franchise/superstar players.

Should he get a nod for the Vezina this year? You'd think with the amount of shots he faced, his stats and now this that he'd get some recognition for it.

I guess it's a little early though. I think he should get recognition for it.
 

SprDaVE

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Sep 20, 2008
52,462
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For those of us who have no idea what this is, care to explain.


http://www.hockey-reference.com/about/point_shares.html

What is a Point Share?

Bill James developed his system such that one win is equivalent to three Win Shares. My system deviates from James' in three key ways:

In James' system, one win is equivalent to three Win Shares. In my system for hockey, one point is equivalent to one Point Share.
James made team Win Shares directly proportional to team wins. In his system, a baseball team that wins 80 games will have exactly 240 Win Shares, a baseball team that wins 90 games will have exactly 270 Win Shares, etc. In my system for hockey, a team with 100 points will have about 100 Point Shares, give or take.
James did not allow for the possibility of negative Win Shares. In his system, the fewest number of Win Shares a player can have is zero. In my system, a player can have negative Point Shares. I justify this by thinking about it in the following way: a player with negative Point Shares was so poor that he essentially took away points that his teammates had generated.
III. Marginal Goals For and Marginal Goals Against

The Point Shares system is based on the fact that marginal goals for and marginal goals against are linked to team points. At the team level, marginal goals for and marginal goals against are equal to:

MGF = (team goals) - (7 / 12) × (team games) × (league goals per game)
MGA = (1 + (7 / 12)) × (team games) × (league goals per game) - (team goals against)

* Why 7/12? At even strengh a team has six players on the ice, five skaters and one goalie. Imagine each of these players having two chips to contribute to one of two buckets: offense and defense. Collectively the skaters will contribute five chips to the offensive bucket and five chips to the defensive bucket. However, the goalie will contribute both of his chips to the defensive bucket, giving the defensive bucket seven of the twelve chips.

Marginal goals for and marginal goals against can be converted into expected points using the following formula:

Expected Points = (league points per goal) × (MGF + MGA)

For example, here is the calculation for the 2009-10 Pittsburgh Penguins:

MGF = 257 - (7 / 12) × 82 × 2.765 = 124.74
MGA = (1 + (7 / 12)) × 82 × 2.765 - 237 = 121.99

Expected Points = 0.4059 × (124.74 + 121.99) = 100.15

Actual Points = 101

Doing the same calculation for all team seasons from 1917-18 to 2009-10 produces an average absolute error of 4.43 points per 82 games and a root mean squared error iof 5.95 points per 82 games.

Crediting Goalie Point Shares to Goalies

Goalies will receive 2/7 of the team's defensive point shares, on average, although that fraction is adjusted upward or downward in seasons where shots against are available.

* Why 2/7? Go back to the chips analogy above: of the seven chips contributed to the defensive bucket, two came from the goalie.

Shots against were not officially recorded until the 1983-84 season, so there is one method for 1983-84 to the present and another method for 1917-18 to 1982-83.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/about/point_shares.html
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
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Bernier is a stud. He should be on Team Canada over Smith, he's one of the few guys with a legitimate shot at taking the starter position away from Price 4 years from now (assuming NHL players go).
 

Count Von Grabo*

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Bernier is a stud. He should be on Team Canada over Smith, he's one of the few guys with a legitimate shot at taking the starter position away from Price 4 years from now (assuming NHL players go).



I would have taken lots of guys over Smith. Including Bernier. Although I doubt the #3 guy is gonna get a chance to take the reigns.
 

613Leafer

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May 26, 2008
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I would have taken lots of guys over Smith. Including Bernier. Although I doubt the #3 guy is gonna get a chance to take the reigns.

Well yea, the #3 guy has almost no chance of playing. Thats why i wanted a young guy to go (Holtby was another good option). To get some experience so that in the 2018 Olympics they might be ready to be in the top two.
 

Count Von Grabo*

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Well yea, the #3 guy has almost no chance of playing. Thats why i wanted a young guy to go (Holtby was another good option). To get some experience so that in the 2018 Olympics they might be ready to be in the top two.

Doubt the experience would make much of an impact. But I guess.


also pretty sure this is the final times we'll see NHL'ers in the olympics.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
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well here's the thing

A: the third goalie has to dress to qualify for a medal - ergo: in ONE of these 4 games, Smith has put the gear on.

B: ANYTHING can happen. What if Price hurts himself and Luongo is crap? this whole thing about "well the third goalie won't play.." well unless your psychic....

but to be fair - again: I don't want Bernier there. I want him rested, and focused and push for the 22 games.
 

Pi

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Nov 16, 2010
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Dubnyk was top 10 last year

That's all you need to know about this stat.

Not really.

Dubnyk was actually very good last year in front of a terrible defense.

Playing in front of a bad defense for a long period of time has to be demoralizing for a goalie especially considering the fact that goalies get blamed for the losses more than defense or offense.

Even if you consider Dubynk to be bad last year, you can't discount the ~40 great players over the last 5 years on that list because of 10 bad players.
 

613Leafer

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May 26, 2008
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Berny has been that good and Leafs MVP this year.

Yep. He's arguably in the running for a Vezina nomination as well. 3rd in save % for goalies with 40+ games while playing for what is probably a bottom 5 team defensively.

I doubt he gets nominated, but he should be top 5 right now.
 

Count Von Grabo*

Guest
Yep. He's arguably in the running for a Vezina nomination as well. 3rd in save % for goalies with 40+ games while playing for what is probably a bottom 5 team defensively.

I doubt he gets nominated, but he should be top 5 right now.

I think Tuukka is better, but JB is having a better season. Rask will get the nom over him though.
 

daveleaf

#FIREKEEFE #MIGHTBETIMETOFIRESHANNYTOO
Mar 23, 2010
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Even when I saw him play in LA the guy wreaked of calmness. I was a huge fan of getting this guy in TO and all we ever heard was 'no sample size, less starts than Reimer....blah blah'. You don't have to be a genius and look at a player and say he has all the tools. Looking forward to seeing him carry the Blue and White for the next decade. This guy has all the tools to hoist a cup for us. Nonis knows what he is doing, he will make it work.
 

gabeliscious

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
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well here's the thing

A: the third goalie has to dress to qualify for a medal - ergo: in ONE of these 4 games, Smith has put the gear on.

B: ANYTHING can happen. What if Price hurts himself and Luongo is crap? this whole thing about "well the third goalie won't play.." well unless your psychic....

but to be fair - again: I don't want Bernier there. I want him rested, and focused and push for the 22 games.

didnt know that. i hope they let smith sit on the bench one game so he can get a medal (hopefully). it would suck to go there be part of the team and stuff and then after they win (hopefully), they tell smith, sorry pal, you dont qualify for a medal lol
 

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