Sidney Crosby - The Reebok gamble - will it pay off?

[Jason MacIsaac]

I didn't knock the guy. I compared him to one of the NHL's better players in Brad Richards. Richards scored 71 goals and had 186 pts. in a less watered down Q. Expansion has made the weak sisters in the Q even weaker than when Richards played in that league. I don't get to see Crosby alot but have seem him at least a dozen times now and there are no guarantees that he will become an NHL superstar. Ovechkin is faster, bigger and has better and more 1 on 1 moves than Crosby has shown and he won't be a superstar either. It's not a disgrace to be compared to Brad Richards.

I know the NHL desperately needs a budding star to help repair the damage and to build around but I just wish they would do as good a job as the NBA does at promoting the stars on every team and not just an unproven 17 year old.

Bergeron and Carter outplayed Crosby and they don't get the media attention that Sidney does. Why not? Because he is putting up big numbers at 17 in a watered down league? Because he has a million dollar smile or a tremendous attitude? Because the media are starving for a feel good story? All of the above?

Personally, I take Phaneuf over Sidney if they were in the same draft year.

Personaly I think you are delusional at best. Being from Winnipeg I expect you only used the WJC as a measure stick for what Crosby is capable of when its possible you never seen more then a couple of Crosby's games from the QMJHL.

You state that the QMJHL is watered down? We have the least amount of teams out of the three major junior leaugues, what does that say about the OHL and WHL? While our defense may not be the strongest the QMJHL more then makes up for that with far better goaltending then the other two leagues. We have to face the likes of Luongo, Theodore, Brodeur, Roy, Denis and Fleury every year. This year is no different.

Comparing Crosby top end potential to Richards is a slap in the face and a slap only a Crosby hater would make. Crosby is 17 and doesn't turn 18 till the summer, when Richards was 17 he had 115 points in 68 games. Still excellent stats but far from Crosby's 145 points in 57 games in a far tighter defensivly QMJHL. Richards 186 points as a 19/20 year old is probably only comparable to Crosbys stats this year considering the change in defensive play.

Bergeron and Carter are two years older then Crosby. Carter got just as much PP ice time and much more even strength then Crosby. Crosby was on the first unit and Carter was on the 2nd. After the PP ice time Crosby got very little even strength. Bergeron played in the NHL and AHL....you actually thought he wouldn't dominate the tourney?

If Phaneuf went back into the draft this year I would pick Crosby without a 2nd thought. Not only will he bring fans to the arena like Lemieux and Gretzky but he will help you win cups.

 

[pei fan]

Crosby is an outstanding Junior hockey player dominating the weaker teams and defensemen in the Q but IMO his best upside is limited or more comparable to a Brad Richards although he does have a more fan friendly smile and media appeal.

His last 6 pt game was against Halifax and a 5 pointer against Chicoutimi.He's
done well all year against the best teams.But yes you are right,all those stupid coaches in the Q put their weakest defensemen against Sid.
Yes his upside is limited to Brad Richards that's why they're paying him more
in a 1 contract as a 17 year old than Richards will make in a lifetime of endorsements. :lol

 

[eye]

Personaly I think you are delusional at best. Being from Winnipeg I expect you only used the WJC as a measure stick for what Crosby is capable of when its possible you never seen more then a couple of Crosby's games from the QMJHL.

You state that the QMJHL is watered down? We have the least amount of teams out of the three major junior leaugues, what does that say about the OHL and WHL? While our defense may not be the strongest the QMJHL more then makes up for that with far better goaltending then the other two leagues. We have to face the likes of Luongo, Theodore, Brodeur, Roy, Denis and Fleury every year. This year is no different.

Comparing Crosby top end potential to Richards is a slap in the face and a slap only a Crosby hater would make. Crosby is 17 and doesn't turn 18 till the summer, when Richards was 17 he had 115 points in 68 games. Still excellent stats but far from Crosby's 145 points in 57 games in a far tighter defensivly QMJHL. Richards 186 points as a 19/20 year old is probably only comparable to Crosbys stats this year considering the change in defensive play.

Bergeron and Carter are two years older then Crosby. Carter got just as much PP ice time and much more even strength then Crosby. Crosby was on the first unit and Carter was on the 2nd. After the PP ice time Crosby got very little even strength. Bergeron played in the NHL and AHL....you actually thought he wouldn't dominate the tourney?

If Phaneuf went back into the draft this year I would pick Crosby without a 2nd thought. Not only will he bring fans to the arena like Lemieux and Gretzky but he will help you win cups.

I am anything but a Crosby hater. I love watching him play. You are obviously biased when it comes to the Q and Sidney. I still can't understand how comparing Crosby's upside to Richards is a slap in the face. Someone already pointed out Richards playoff scoring record from last year and Richards was also part of Team Canada at the recent World Cup of Hockey so not exactly a slouch.

Your entitled to your opinion but I build my championship team around Phaneuf. IMO he is more of a sure shot top D on the Flames than Sidney is as a teams potential top F. I think you are underestimating how the NHL game has changed and how difficult it is for a 5'10" player to survive and thrive in this era of the NHL.

How many teams have the Q added in the last 4 years? How many goalies from the Q were considered for this years WJC team? You are correct in that I have only seen Crosby play a few times on TV in the Q. The last time he was held pointless by the Gatineau team who paid some extra attention to Sidney and he was visibly frustrated that night. I also think you better go and watch the WJC tapes again. Other than PK Sidney played every 4 on 4 situation, had more than regular ice 5 on 5 and played every PP. How many points did Gretzky have in his WJC appearance and how many has Sidney had in 2 of them? He will catch up to the Great One's point total at the next, his 3rd WJC.

 

[Mess]

Hockey fans there have.

All five of them ??

Do only Hockey Fans wear Reebok?? Othwise having Crosby picture in every add is really going to have little effect ..

 

[futurcorerock]

All five of them ??

Do only Hockey Fans wear Reebok?? Othwise having Crosby picture in every add is really going to have little effect ..

Just wait... the hype machine is there, and if he starts to live up to it, you won't hear the end of it.

 

[Mess]

Just wait... the hype machine is there, and if he starts to live up to it, you won't hear the end of it.

Speaking of there .. .Are there still NHL teams in Carolina and Nashville ?? I would have thought the league would have shut those down years ago already ..

 

[kerrly]

I am anything but a Crosby hater. I love watching him play. You are obviously biased when it comes to the Q and Sidney. I still can't understand how comparing Crosby's upside to Richards is a slap in the face. Someone already pointed out Richards playoff scoring record from last year and Richards was also part of Team Canada at the recent World Cup of Hockey so not exactly a slouch.

Your entitled to your opinion but I build my championship team around Phaneuf. IMO he is more of a sure shot top D on the Flames than Sidney is as a teams potential top F. I think you are underestimating how the NHL game has changed and how difficult it is for a 5'10" player to survive and thrive in this era of the NHL.

How many teams have the Q added in the last 4 years? How many goalies from the Q were considered for this years WJC team? You are correct in that I have only seen Crosby play a few times on TV in the Q. The last time he was held pointless by the Gatineau team who paid some extra attention to Sidney and he was visibly frustrated that night. I also think you better go and watch the WJC tapes again. Other than PK Sidney played every 4 on 4 situation, had more than regular ice 5 on 5 and played every PP. How many points did Gretzky have in his WJC appearance and how many has Sidney had in 2 of them? He will catch up to the Great One's point total at the next, his 3rd WJC.

If you would like to see a little more of Crosby's skill, TSN will be showing a top 10 of his best plays shortly. If you cannot catch it in this edition of sportscenter, it will be on the late edition I'm sure. Watch it.

 

[mr gib]

If the players get the 'partnership' they so want, Crosby will have to share his 'hockey related revenue' with the owners and other players.

A team get a sponsorship for 3M$, the players want a cut. A player gets a sponsorship, all his.

Comments

never in a million years will crosby have to share a dime of that money with any hockey entity

 

[Crosbyfan]

How many teams have the Q added in the last 4 years? How many goalies from the Q were considered for this years WJC team? You are correct in that I have only seen Crosby play a few times on TV in the Q. The last time he was held pointless by the Gatineau team who paid some extra attention to Sidney and he was visibly frustrated that night. I also think you better go and watch the WJC tapes again. Other than PK Sidney played every 4 on 4 situation, had more than regular ice 5 on 5 and played every PP. How many points did Gretzky have in his WJC appearance and how many has Sidney had in 2 of them? He will catch up to the Great One's point total at the next, his 3rd WJC.

Sid has a silver and gold medal from the WJC's. Wayne has a bronze. Different circumstances. The only players near his calibre at the last WJC's were 2+ years older and any other year would not have been released from their NHL clubs. Sid was a few months older in his second WJC's than Wayne in his one and only but the competition was stronger than when Wayne and company won their bronze and Canada's latest team scoring was much more spread out.

 

[Schlep Rock]

I am anything but a Crosby hater. I love watching him play. You are obviously biased when it comes to the Q and Sidney. I still can't understand how comparing Crosby's upside to Richards is a slap in the face. Someone already pointed out Richards playoff scoring record from last year and Richards was also part of Team Canada at the recent World Cup of Hockey so not exactly a slouch.

Your entitled to your opinion but I build my championship team around Phaneuf. IMO he is more of a sure shot top D on the Flames than Sidney is as a teams potential top F. I think you are underestimating how the NHL game has changed and how difficult it is for a 5'10" player to survive and thrive in this era of the NHL.

How many teams have the Q added in the last 4 years? How many goalies from the Q were considered for this years WJC team? You are correct in that I have only seen Crosby play a few times on TV in the Q. The last time he was held pointless by the Gatineau team who paid some extra attention to Sidney and he was visibly frustrated that night. I also think you better go and watch the WJC tapes again. Other than PK Sidney played every 4 on 4 situation, had more than regular ice 5 on 5 and played every PP. How many points did Gretzky have in his WJC appearance and how many has Sidney had in 2 of them? He will catch up to the Great One's point total at the next, his 3rd WJC.

eye,

I'm starting to enjoy some of yours posts but just want to point something out... you throw out a bias claim for the Q/Crosby here but a lot of your posts clearly show a preference/bias in the same direction.

Originally thought to be a pain in the ass... there's some good content in your posts.

However, it'd be blood if an NHL GM made the same claim you did just based on the hype machine Crosby has behind him. While in 5 years it might be true, doubt that GM would be around to say "I told you so"

 

[futurcorerock]

No matter what, this is good for hockey.

Positive publicity and Crosby's name goes up next to other famous underaged phenoms who've signed endorsement contracts.

Let's hope he's not the first to bomb

 

[me2]

Valid response back.

Here's my come back to that...
we will hypothetically say Microsoft offers profit sharing to all of their employees (not sure if they do)

Without Bill Gates there would be no Microsoft but without the employees Gates would be worth maybe $100k on his own. The employees (players) put value into the franchise because they allow products to be sold (gate receipts, concessions, and advertising).

No hockey without the players. That just frees up more rink dates for concerts etc. They might not pay the owners as well as hockey games but they do bring in some revenue without them.

So without the owners, no team. Without the players, no revenue. The owners/teams aren't going anywhere so the revenue needs to be there and since the players are the "product" as most people argue, they are looking for the revenue sharing.

They were offered a 55% share of the revenue, what's wrong with that?

 

[LastChancePrice]

Even in the minor atm Crosby is "the greatest attraction" atm in canada.All games in LHJMQ when he play are sold out.

I think the 4m for 5 years is a bargain for Reebok

Remind me please...how much did Nike paid to get Tiger Woods???

 

[Schlep Rock]

No hockey without the players. That just frees up more rink dates for concerts etc. They might not pay the owners as well as hockey games but they do bring in some revenue without them.




They were offered a 55% share of the revenue, what's wrong with that?

They were offered a 55% share of revenue as a SALARY. Salaries need to be paid out so you can't count this.

Meaningful profit sharing should take place because right now the NHL's profit margin should be around 35% (55% to salaries, 10% for other expenses). Even if they kick 5% of that the players might see another $50k each which would be a nice little end of the year bonus for anybody.

 

[canes-sth]

Hockey fans there have.

Exactly. And much to most everyone here's dismay - there are hockey fans in North Carolina and Tennessee - more than five.

It's no wonder that the NHL is in the mess that it is. The "fans" spend more time discussing who to contract, which cities "deserve" a team, which cities whine more, which city is a "hockey city", etc. It's the biggest bunch of self-hating, holier-than-thou fans and players. If it isn't fans criticizing new or rebuilding markets, it's players. Puzzling.

Anyway, Crosby was in Raleigh during the draft weekend in June and shockingly, he was recognized walking around in street clothes.

 

[RangerBoy]

Put this boy on Broadway and he becomes a household name in the U.S.He is the complete package-speaks perfect english,has all his teeth and is a terrific player

 

[Chili]

They were offered a 55% share of revenue as a SALARY. Salaries need to be paid out so you can't count this.

Meaningful profit sharing should take place because right now the NHL's profit margin should be around 35% (55% to salaries, 10% for other expenses). Even if they kick 5% of that the players might see another $50k each which would be a nice little end of the year bonus for anybody.

I like your idea. Guarantee the players a fixed % of revenues AND profits (aka bonus). Negotiate the two %'s, ensure there are agreed upon audit procedures and severe penalties for non compliance et voila...does it make too much sense?

 

[eye]

eye,

I'm starting to enjoy some of yours posts but just want to point something out... you throw out a bias claim for the Q/Crosby here but a lot of your posts clearly show a preference/bias in the same direction.

Originally thought to be a pain in the ass... there's some good content in your posts.

However, it'd be blood if an NHL GM made the same claim you did just based on the hype machine Crosby has behind him. While in 5 years it might be true, doubt that GM would be around to say "I told you so"

Fair enough. Points well taken. If only Bob and Gary could disagree and make a point as well as you just did. It might just lead to an agreement instead of adding another brick to the wall that stands between them

I guess Reebok are already getting some of their money's worth thru threads like this one and many others that I am sure will surface. It may turn out to be perfect timing and a brilliant marketing move considering all the sports shows are making news out of this with no NHL hockey to report on.

 

[alecfromtherock]

Signing a multi-year multi-million contract to an unproven prospect does seem to be a risk.

According to some posters on this thread Crosby is a sure-thing and will instantly become a NHL superstar when he starts to play.

Brad Richards and Vinny are proven stars, it is ludicrous to say Crosby is already better then they are or will be better then they are based on junior numbers.

The WJC was quite lopsided in Canada’s favour and is not a accurate reflections of ones skill or ability.

Playing in the Prospects game with the top 40 CHL un-drafted players would have been the best indication if Crosby is a standout among his peers.

In a lot of close games for Crosby’s team Rimouski, he does have clutch goals which translates into wins for his team.

If Rimouski does make it to the Memorial Cup in London we will soon see how effective Crosby can be against the BEST junior teams in the CHL.

Reebok is not adding to the Crosby hype, rather just going along for the ride and entering a new market to sell their products.

 

[kerrly]

They were offered a 55% share of revenue as a SALARY. Salaries need to be paid out so you can't count this.

Meaningful profit sharing should take place because right now the NHL's profit margin should be around 35% (55% to salaries, 10% for other expenses). Even if they kick 5% of that the players might see another $50k each which would be a nice little end of the year bonus for anybody.

If you are assuming that every team will be taking in 35% profits of their total revenue you are sadly mistaken. The big market teams will be taking in profit no doubt. It costs alot more to run a team then you think. If the Oilers pay out around 60% of their revenues to players, that has them around the break even mark. Under the last CBA, on a league-wide average, the players were paid something like 75% of revenues, and the league lost substantial money. With your figures, 55% + 35% supposed profits, thats 90% of revenues that should be the break even mark, it doesn't make any sense.

 

[Schlep Rock]

If you are assuming that every team will be taking in 35% profits of their total revenue you are sadly mistaken. The big market teams will be taking in profit no doubt. It costs alot more to run a team then you think. If the Oilers pay out around 60% of their revenues to players, that has them around the break even mark. Under the last CBA, on a league-wide average, the players were paid something like 75% of revenues, and the league lost substantial money. With your figures, 55% + 35% supposed profits, thats 90% of revenues that should be the break even mark, it doesn't make any sense.

I threw that 35% figure out there as just that, a figure.

To say the players are offered 55% revenue and call that revenue sharing is absolutely hilarious. Salaries are not considered revenue sharing.

All for profit sharing say "I"

 

[kerrly]

I threw that 35% figure out there as just that, a figure.

To say the players are offered 55% revenue and call that revenue sharing is absolutely hilarious. Salaries are not considered revenue sharing.

All for profit sharing say "I"

I don't think anyone is calling the linkage revenue sharing, their calling it the players being guaranteed a certain portion of the revenues, nothing more nothing less. I'm for revenue sharing, but not complete revenue sharing. I think as long as teams can have enough to meet the floor, that is more than fair. It should be up to small market teams like my Oilers to generate their own revenue increases after that. That way its somewhat fair to the big market teams as well.

If the league wants to include its profit sharing like they have proposed in a previous concept, I'm fine with that as well. The linkage will go up with revenues so the cap will adjust and the players will see an increased share. And after the next CBA is up, and the overall revenues are up, I see no problem with them negotiating a new percentage, because if the revenues are increasing teams will be able to pay a little more to the players without risking massive losses.

If the players wanted a portion of profits or a slightly higher linkage percentage, they should have negotiated that in Sept. Now is not the time to be doing that, and the pie is shrinking, so its likely that somewhere in the mid 50's is their best bet, with the profit sharing system that was proposed before. The players get a percentage if and only if the league turns a profit at a certain amount.

 

[Hockee]

The NHL style of play and clutch and grab 6'4" interfering Dmen will not allow a 5'10" player to dominate and shine the way stars should shine.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/players/profile?statsId=1772
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/players/profile?statsId=0007
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/players/profile?statsId=0533
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/players/profile?statsId=1339

The leading scorer in the NHL last season was 5'10". The difference between 5'10" and 6'0" lies in who does the measuring.

There is no difference and size does not matter.

 

[mr gib]

Put this boy on Broadway and he becomes a household name in the U.S.He is the complete package-speaks perfect english,has all his teeth and is a terrific player

i agree - if he can get to rangerland it would save the league

 

[Hockeyfan02]

Brad Richards and Vinny are proven stars, it is ludicrous to say Crosby is already better then they are or will be better then they are based on junior numbers.

Oh come on. You know it's a "slap in the face" to Crosby to say two proven NHL stars like Lecavalier and Richards are better than he is right now when he hasnt even played a game in the NHL..... Hint: A bit of sarcasm used here.