Should we be worried about the hype surrounding Marleau and the HHOF?

[Nick Hansen]

I feel like I am seeing and hearing this more and more. He was a fine player and has had an impressively long and healthy career but other than that I don't see it.

Click to read more...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

long career, 500 goals, 1,000 points. it’s over, done deal. he has checked the last box: randomly played for the leafs.

see: nieuwendyk, gartner, andreychuk.

 

[arrbez]

TV broadcasts are referring to him as "future hall of famer". So it's all over.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Just did a quick check but if I am not wrong, he only has three top twenty finishes in points. Zero top ten. No individual hardware, no Stanley Cup. How do we view him as a playoff performer? Not the greatest, right...although I have a vague memory of him having a lot of GWGs in the playoffs. Could be wrong.

I have a feeling he could be liked by some of the right people, too, Babcock is a massive fan for instance.

 

[Nick Hansen]

long career, 500 goals, 1,000 points. it’s over, done deal. he has checked the last box: randomly played for the leafs.

see: nieuwendyk, gartner, andreychuk.

You know, if he had a cup or two to his name where he played a huge role I could potentially be convinced. But not now.

 

[McRpro]

There are so many players in the Hall already that do not, IMO, belong in it. So sure, why not let Marleau in too. He wouldn't be the worse player in the Hall of Very Good.

 

[Hobnobs]

Should we be worried that people are actually worried about a guy getting into the HHoF?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Should we be worried that people are actually worried about a guy getting into the HHoF?

that's a good point. who needs the extra anxiety?

 

[dr robbie]

I dont know about others, but im losing sleep.

 

[DitchMarner]

Just did a quick check but if I am not wrong, he only has three top twenty finishes in points. Zero top ten. No individual hardware, no Stanley Cup. How do we view him as a playoff performer? Not the greatest, right...although I have a vague memory of him having a lot of GWGs in the playoffs. Could be wrong.

I have a feeling he could be liked by some of the right people, too, Babcock is a massive fan for instance.

Perry has two finishes in the five for points, five top ten goals finishes, two major awards and a Cup and you were fairly adamant he doesn't belong, either.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Perry has two finishes in the five for points, five top ten goals finishes, two major awards and a Cup and you were fairly adamant he doesn't belong, either.

Well, you're just making my case here. If you are iffy about Perry then Marleau sure as hell shouldn't be going in.

 

[Nick Hansen]

I dont know about others, but im losing sleep.

I'm biting away at my nails. And chain-smoking.

 

[VanIslander]

How do we view him as a playoff performer? Not the greatest, right...although I have a vague memory of him having a lot of GWGs in the playoffs. Could be wrong.

No, you aren't wrong. In addition to having scored 101 game-winning goals in the regular season (6th all time, not far off of passing Shanny, Hull and Selanne to be 3rd all time, which he should do, though OV is closing in on him fast), Marleau has 16 playoff game-winning goals (tied with Jagr, 8th all time, just three shy of 3rd all time, behind only Hull and Gretzky).

I have a feeling he could be liked by some of the right people, too, Babcock is a massive fan for instance.

Babcock, the coach who played Marleau on the pp and pk and made him 3rd in ice time among Canada's forwards in the 2010 Olympic gold triumph tourney then double downed and wanted Patty for the 2014 team and Patty led Canada in assists on a very effective two-way 2nd line with Toews and Carter, plus of course his pp and pk duty.

So,... Marleau will likely finish his career 4th in NHL career game winners in the regular season and 3rd in NHL career playoff game-winning goals. Plus a central role in two Olympic gold medal wins. Those are relevant considerations. Are they enough? I suspect a Lady Byng trophy (he's been a finalist, and 4th a couple of times, and has just one minor penalty with 13 points in 18 games this season, is on pace and in the spotlight in Toronto instead of backwater San Jose) and a significant role in a Stanley Cup Finals run for the Leafs (which'd be something they haven't done in the last 50+ years) ought to put him across the line, just barely. Plus he should pass Guy Lafleur in career goals to crack the top-25 of all time and pass Bobby Hull to be top-50 in career points. This is a guy whose career would not have been so quiet if he hadn't been drafted by an expansion team in San Jose but instead had gone as a rookie to a Canadian team or major Eastern U.S. market franchise. He's lucky to be in Toronto now to have an outside shot at the Hall. His career clearly isn't done, and he's on pace to be an interesting marginal candidate playing now at the center of the hockey universe, or at least hockey media world.

 

[BraveCanadian]

There is no way he should be in, but he probably will be.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

it's maybe worth noting that marleau was often spoken of as a clutch playoff performer until thornton joined the team and expectations on the team jumped a stratosphere. after that he was usually considered a disappointment.

re: his team canada accomplishments, team canada has traditionally found a place for a marleau-type player. speedy, defensively sound, usually with center-wing versatility. bob bourne, mike gartner, simon gagne, jeff carter, and now matt duchene. it's a feather in his cap, but given his historical peers at that role hardly a HHOF-calibre credential.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

and fwiw, my lasting memory of marleau in the playoffs involves one kevin bieksa.





hilarious how the canadian and american broadcasters describe the tilt in very different ways.

 

[Zegras Zebra]

If you look at Marleau's points totals, his early years hover around 60 points while scoring between 20-28 goals a season which is hardly elite. However in 2005-06 his points totals increase from 57 to his career best of 86, and then hover around the 70-83 point mark for every year but 3 seasons (2 outlier, 1 lockout) until 2014-15 when his points totals began to decrease. Are 9 solid, but not spectacular seasons out of 19 so far worthy of the HHOF? Probably not. He seems to have benefited greatly from San Jose's addition of Thornton in 2005-06. He has a decent international record, even if he hasn't had much playoff success on a San Jose team that always seemed to choke. The Toronto factor definitely works in his favour, and if he wins a Stanley Cup with the Leafs (which is reasonable) he goes from a "probably in" to "a lock."

Also I want to point out that the media often gets "graduation goggles" when a long time player retires and often say things in the heat of the moment that probably aren't true. An example being after Osgood retired everyone in the media was saying he would be in the HHOF one day, but in reality it isn't likely to happen.

 

[The Panther]

Also I want to point out that the media often gets "graduation goggles" when a long time player retires and often say things in the heat of the moment that probably aren't true. An example being after Osgood retired everyone in the media was saying he would be in the HHOF one day, but in reality it isn't likely to happen.

This is really it. All you have to do nowadays is survive past the 20-season mark and the hockey-media starts blowing everyone's horn until they're built up as "future Hall of Famers".

Marleau should never be in.

 

[BlueBull]

This is really it. All you have to do nowadays is survive past the 20-season mark and the hockey-media starts blowing everyone's horn until they're built up as "future Hall of Famers".

Then why doesn't Matt Cullen and Shane Doan get all the hype?
How about former players Glen Wesley and Luke Richardson?
that quote is not entirely true.

 

[Hobnobs]

This is really it. All you have to do nowadays is survive past the 20-season mark and the hockey-media starts blowing everyone's horn until they're built up as "future Hall of Famers".

Marleau should never be in.

Highly disagree. I think Marleau has a case because he THE shark (+ signing with the Leafs and not sucking). Little bit like Alfredsson was THE senator. Difference ofc Alfie was a lot better but still.

 

[Neutrinos]

If Thornton had been traded to Arizona instead of San Jose, we'd be having this discussion about Shane Doan

 

[DitchMarner]

Okay... real talk: Who was better out of Andreychuk and Marleau?

I'd say Marleau because he seems to be a better and more productive in his late years. Either guy's case is/would be build on career totals pretty much. Marleau is better defensively and a much better skater, but he's never come to winning the Selke and his skating isn't as lauded as much as, say, Gartner's.

If Marleau had at least finished in the top ten for points once in his career out of all those years or had like five or six finishes in the top 20 for points and more than two placements in the top ten for goals, I might be willing to say okay to inducting him. How many forwards who weren't elite defensively and didn't finish in the top ten for points ever are in the HHOF?


Even Gillies finished in the top ten for scoring once.

There's Joe Nieuwendyk (zero finishes in the top ten for points), but he won a Smythe and Calder and three Cups. He also had five top ten goals finishes.

Neely had his 50 in 44.


Marleau's high-end is just too low to warrant his getting in.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

"hilarious how the canadian and american broadcasters describe the tilt in very different ways." When describing the clips I don't think it was so much American/Canadian difference, but the San Jose announcer, definitely gave it his "homer" tilt.
Thought the years, almost since the Sabres inception I believe, Rick de Jennerat the Sabres announcer, has not called a losing fight by a Sabre. Gee listening to his call of a game you would think the Sabres are a 75 win team every season.

 

[seventieslord]

I'm the first person to make sure not to overrate Marleau on the basis that he played forever and amassed some career totals despite never being elite... I'll also be the first to say not to use GWG as a measure of anything meaningful. However.... he was a better and more valuable player than Dave Andreychuk, right?

 

[BlueBull]

Okay... real talk: Who was better out of Andreychuk and Marleau?

I'd say Marleau because he seems to be a better and more productive in his late years. Either guy's case is/would be build on career totals pretty much. Marleau is better defensively and a much better skater, but he's never come to winning the Selke and his skating isn't as lauded as much as, say, Gartner's.

If Marleau had at least finished in the top ten for points once in his career out of all those years or had like five or six finishes in the top 20 for points and more than two placementsin the top ten for goals, I might be willing to say okay to inducting him. How many forwards who weren't elite defensively and didn't finish in the top ten for points ever are in the HHOF?


Even Gillies finished in the top ten for scoring once.

There's Joe Nieuwendyk (zero finishes in the top ten for points), but he won a Smythe and Calder and three Cups. He also had five top ten goals finishes.

Neely had his 50 in 44.


Marleau's high-end is just too low to warrant his getting in.

if so, how do you like him and roenick as the only two 500 goal scorers not in the hall? how does that sound? if marleau can't be a hhof then i will never accept roenick as a hhofer