Should the Blues go after Bishop or Fleury?

[Blues are my Life*]

I think it's clear to all of us here that Allen and Hutton are not getting the job done. Allen looks to be the next Brent the Sieve Johnson or Roman Turek and Hutton is basically a 2003 version of Fred BrathWaste. Both goalies are sieves, and if this team has any chance of making the playoffs they need better goaltending.

Would Tampa be willing to give up Bishop and tank this season? They're starting to slowly fall out of the race and Bishop is a top tier goalie, something the Blues have not had for a very long time.

Fleury would be another nice addition as he has two Stanley Cups and is a proven winner and has more playoff experience and can steal some games.

Players like Tank need to step it up too and quit having these long scoring droughts.

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[Dbrownss]

So depressing....Allen dropped the Ball so hard

Either Blues make a desperation move and most likely overpay or ride Allen out and just throw in the towel this season. Goaltending is absolutely awful but the skaters dont seem to be playing a system that looks like it generates much.

I'd honestly go after Fleury.

 

[KingBran]

Army is too proud and would never trade Allen before his fancy new contract takes effect. It's the same reason we are probably stuck with Lehtera and Hitch as a coach for the rest of the season.

No way Army admits to a mistake and changes out one of these guys. They are part of the good ol boys club.

 

[Celtic Note]

Fleury is not someone I want on this team. He has historically received way more praise than was ever justified.

 

[TruBlu]

I don't want to mortgage our future just to possibly make it to the playoffs. This team wouldn't win a cup even with Price in goal. Any decent goalie acquisition at this point in the season is going to mean massive overpayment on our part, hurting us down the road. I'd rather just roll with what we have, trade Shatty, and take the better draft pick. I don't have any faith that this team will do anything even with good goaltending. This years defense isn't stellar and having another goalie would expose that. IMO, I think we'd see that goalie's numbers drop, too, behind this D.

 

[Renard]

Allen and Hutton are under contract with the Blues. How can we afford to pay them and another goalie to boot?

I'm afraid we are stuck, and all we can do in root for Allen to turn it around.

 

[Alklha]

Allen and Hutton are under contract with the Blues. How can we afford to pay them and another goalie to boot?

I'm afraid we are stuck, and all we can do in root for Allen to turn it around.

Or start handling the situation in a different way.

Continuing to put him out there isn't working. We need to give him some space after this road trip and go with Copley and Hutton for a couple of weeks. Bring Allen back into the fold after the All Star break.

He'll improve, it's just a matter of when and by how much. But you are completely right that we're stuck with Allen going forward, at least until Joan play improves.

 

[67Blues]

I think we have to face the realization that we aren't a playoff team this year. We sort of knew that it would be a re-tooling year with the talent that left, but I don't think any of us would guess that this Blues team would have the worse road record in the league, have lousy goal tending, streaky scoring, and a basic malaise that has set in.

Hopefully Army realizes this and becomes an aggressive seller at the TDL and can re-stock the shelves and plan a mini-rebuild over the next year or two. It isn't a blow it up roster, but it needs more than a goalie at the moment to fix what ails them. Make some trades and possibly get a couple of first round picks going into this draft. Having 3 first rounders would definitely help stock the shelves. Get some of the Wolves up here and lets see what they can do. We aren't in anyone's conversation as a potential deep playoff team this year, so why continue to thrash around and waste half a calendar year of not looking towards the future?

Let Yeo start to work with Army to reshape what the team identity is starting right now. Let Hitch ride the zeppelin into the ground for a top 10 draft pick this year.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

I think the only way you chase another goalie right now is if its part of a bigger package... I'm not a huge fan of the Tyler Johnson trade hype that has been going on recently, but if you could trade for Johnson/Bishop with Shatty+(AHL/picks/Lehtera/Allen-or-Hutton) then i say do it. It would help with our center depth(NO Johnson isn't true a #1C but he would be better than 12 on the 1st line). as long as we aren't giving up Fabbri/Schwartz/Parayko/TT I say make the deal, but if it requires ANY of those walk and we will let Allen play until he quits hockey and opens a Smoothie King branch somewhere and cries daily

 

[Oberyn]

We have a roster spot open after Rattie got claimed. Use that spot to bring up a goalie, probably Copley, and go from there. Give some Allen some time off, it's in the interests of both parties that he not play in any games for a bit.

 

[STL fan in MN]

We have a roster spot open after Rattie got claimed. Use that spot to bring up a goalie, probably Copley, and go from there. Give some Allen some time off, it's in the interests of both parties that he not play in any games for a bit.

Actually, they don't have an open spot now that Borts came off IR yesterday. They'll have a spot again if/when Hunt is waived/reassigned to the Wolves but they don't have one now.

And I don't see any of Copley/Binny/Husso as being able to help much anyway. This team is BAD in many areas, not just the goaltending. I wouldn't want to throw one of the young guys into this bad situation right now as it likely wouldn't turn out well. It's time to ride Hutton a bit IMO and hopefully Allen can reset. And hopefully the team as a whole can reset too. They're a flawed team even when there at their best but they've been playing way below their best for a few weeks now.

 

[RORbacon]

No. They should not. This team can't have 9+ mil tied up in goaltending. Unless Allen is moved (ain't happening) we can't take either Bishop of Fleury. Like it or not, we are stuck with Allen for the foreseeable future. I'm rooting for him, but my hopes aren't high.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Army is too proud and would never trade Allen before his fancy new contract takes effect. It's the same reason we are probably stuck with Lehtera and Hitch as a coach for the rest of the season.

No way Army admits to a mistake and changes out one of these guys. They are part of the good ol boys club.

This viewpoint makes me laugh. Apparently pro sports coaches and GM's in STL care more about one decision than they do about having a job or building a resume for their next one.

 

[Oberyn]

Actually, they don't have an open spot now that Borts came off IR yesterday. They'll have a spot again if/when Hunt is waived/reassigned to the Wolves but they don't have one now.

And I don't see any of Copley/Binny/Husso as being able to help much anyway. This team is BAD in many areas, not just the goaltending. I wouldn't want to throw one of the young guys into this bad situation right now as it likely wouldn't turn out well. It's time to ride Hutton a bit IMO and hopefully Allen can reset. And hopefully the team as a whole can reset too. They're a flawed team even when there at their best but they've been playing way below their best for a few weeks now.

Ah you're right, forgot about Bortuzzo getting activated off IR.

They won't help much but it's not like we have anything better to do. We don't even have to play them, just bring them up for the experience and give Allen some time off. Hutton can start all the games.

 

[KingBran]

This viewpoint makes me laugh. Apparently pro sports coaches and GM's in STL care more about one decision than they do about having a job or building a resume for their next one.

So you think Allen and Lehtera have good contracts?

I see no other reason they keep getting to play as if they are good players when everyone knows they are not. Which may be Hitch's fault for keeping them playing. However he is part of the good ol boys club so I am sure hes trying to protect his buddy Army.

Whats worse for you resume is giving big contracts to guys who don't deserve it and keep playing them hoping they will live up to their contracts as your team spirals down or not doing anything to fix it.

 

[ChuckLefley]

So you think Allen and Lehtera have good contracts?

I see no other reason they keep getting to play as if they are good players when everyone knows they are not.

Whats worse for you resume is giving big contracts to guys who don't deserve it and keep playing them hoping they will live up to their contracts as your team spirals down and not doing anything to fix it.

Whether I think Allen and Lehtera have good contracts has nothing to do with your absurd claim that Armstrong is more worried about his pride than about making the team better or building his resume for the future.

How much playing time they get has nothing to do with the GM. Put the blame on the head coach, where it goes instead of making misguided posts.

Allen absolutely deserved his contract. I saw on another forum that his stats, prior to the contract had him between 7th and 11th, in some important categories like save pct, GAA, quality starts pct. and wins, and he will have the 20th highest goalie contract as of today's cap hits.

Lehtera was a bad signing. Does that outweigh the great signings? Such as one of the top two or three goalscorers in the NHL having the 21st highest cap hit.

I get that the modus operandi of Blues fans is: Blame the goalie, say the GM sucks.

Always has been.

To the point of ignoring facts and logic.

 

[KingBran]

Whether I think Allen and Lehtera have good contracts has nothing to do with your absurd claim that Armstrong is more worried about his pride than about making the team better or building his resume for the future.

How much playing time they get has nothing to do with the GM. Put the blame on the head coach, where it goes instead of making misguided posts.

Allen absolutely deserved his contract. I saw on another forum that his stats, prior to the contract had him between 7th and 11th, in some important categories like save pct, GAA, quality starts pct. and wins, and he will have the 20th highest goalie contract as of today's cap hits.

Lehtera was a bad signing. Does that outweigh the great signings? Such as one of the top two or three goalscorers in the NHL having the 21st highest cap hit.

I get that the modus operandi of Blues fans is: Blame the goalie, say the GM sucks.

Always has been.

To the point of ignoring facts and logic.

That was probably me. I have been a staunch defender of Allen for years. Ask anyone here whom I have had a discussion with about it. I still defend the guy. However I am starting to think maybe they gave him the contract too soon because we have never seen him as the bonified #1 starter without someone looking over his shoulder. I will be the first person to tell you how great Allen was at the end of 2014-2015 and the beginning of 2015-2016 before he got injured. You don't need to tell me, like I said, I am probably the one who was posting those stats that you read. However there is no doubt he is just not getting the job done right now and something has got to give. I am not sure trading him is the right thing to do but maybe he needs a metal break.

So continue on pretending like you know who I am or what I said all I can do is tell you how wrong you are about me and what I said.

 

[Alklha]

Whether I think Allen and Lehtera have good contracts has nothing to do with your absurd claim that Armstrong is more worried about his pride than about making the team better or building his resume for the future.

How much playing time they get has nothing to do with the GM. Put the blame on the head coach, where it goes instead of making misguided posts.

Allen absolutely deserved his contract. I saw on another forum that his stats, prior to the contract had him between 7th and 11th, in some important categories like save pct, GAA, quality starts pct. and wins, and he will have the 20th highest goalie contract as of today's cap hits.

Lehtera was a bad signing. Does that outweigh the great signings? Such as one of the top two or three goalscorers in the NHL having the 21st highest cap hit.

I get that the modus operandi of Blues fans is: Blame the goalie, say the GM sucks.

Always has been.

To the point of ignoring facts and logic.

I totally agree with you that suggestions that Armstrong is doing things because of his pride are ridiculous. It's in his interests to get this team winning. We're just going about things in the wrong way currently.

Whether Allen deserved his contract or not is largely a meaningless conversation. There was no need to sign him that early, the risks outweighed the potential benefits. I don't think the contract will be an anchor in the long term, but it is absolutely an anchor now... when there are a number of quality goalies going to be available due to the expansion draft.

Armstrong doesn't really have "great signings". The one great contract that we have had was the Backes deal, where we have a $6.5m player at $4.5m. The rest of his deals largely focus on waiting for players to prove it and then signing them at market value. People love to compare his RFA signings to UFA signings and act like they are amazing. He is a very solid GM when it comes to contracts because he doesn't take risks. The problem is that he took a risk with Lehterä (which I believe was a justified risk) and it hasn't worked out. He took another risk with Allen, and it looks like it could really handcuff the team at this point.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

I get that the modus operandi of Blues fans is: Blame the goalie, say the GM sucks.

Always has been.

To the point of ignoring facts and logic.

Thank you for pointing this out. I'm glad someone else also holds this opinion. HFBlues has become so negative lately i hardly like checking it this year.

 

[Brian39]

Other than trading Tarasenko, I think trading for a goalie now is the worst possible move this organization could make. Bishop or Fleury do not make us Cup contenders this year. Both of them are having down seasons this year and neither is playing significantly better than Allen. Better, but still well below league average. Why would we spend futures to acquire a slight upgrade in net when the entire team looks like a dumpster fire? Sub .910 goaltending doesn't turn this team into a contender.

Even ignoring all of that, the reality is that Allen is here for the next few years. Unless he improves, no one is going to take on that contract. He looks absolutely terrible right now. He has negative trade value and buying him out would create an 8 year cap hit that no one in ownership or management would be willing to deal with. We can argue all we want about how we got here. The fact is that at this point, we need to be doing everything we can to salvage Jake Allen's career. Bringing in a MAF or Bishop does not further this goal IMO.

Allen needs time off. I don't want to see him in net for at least a week. I don't care whether he serves as a backup, sits in the press box or is granted leave from the team. However we do it, he needs to be kept from the net right now. But eventually he needs to get back in there. Getting a rental goalie further reduces the chances that Allen can bounce back and it sure as hell doesn't make us a contender.

I will be livid if we spend assets on a rental goalie. Give the ball to Hutton for a week or two, put the team on notice that they need to win a couple games in spite of goaltending, trade Shatty, and give some youth a chance. I think that creates a big enough shot in the arm to make the playoffs. If not, at least we didn't make the future team worse in an effort to get a round or two of playoff revenue.

 

[BlueDream]

The Blues are likely going to have to do something before Allen's contract is up since Husso is a couple years away at least. I'd obviously rather trade for a forward but I wouldn't rule anything out at this point.

He will improve from what he's doing right now, but he has never been that good at this level, and he's never been good in big games. He will be 27 in the offseason. People expecting some kind of change or growth in him are being extremely optimistic because I think it's pretty clear who he is now. He's at that age, and he's just not the answer.

 

[LGB51]

The Blues are likely going to have to do something before Allen's contract is up since Husso is a couple years away at least. I'd obviously rather trade for a forward but I wouldn't rule anything out at this point.

He will improve from what he's doing right now, but he has never been that good at this level, and he's never been good in big games. He will be 27 in the offseason. People expecting some kind of change or growth in him are being extremely optimistic because I think it's pretty clear who he is now. He's at that age, and he's just not the answer.

You said it all man

 

[TheDizee]

No..

 

[Spektre]

Is the Blues organization feasibly within a time period where legitimate Cup runs are to be made?

Is it possible to win the Stanley Cup with Allen as the goalie?

The Blues are a good team. They're definitely not great. Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, and company won't be around forever. If Army and the top brass see the Cup window as open and can't see Allen capable of the task they have little choice.

Bishop & Fleury both have a much better proven track record than Allen. All options would have to be discussed. Varlamov could be another target.

 

[Celtic Note]

Is the Blues organization feasibly within a time period where legitimate Cup runs are to be made?

Is it possible to win the Stanley Cup with Allen as the goalie?

The Blues are a good team. They're definitely not great. Tarasenko, Pietrangelo, and company won't be around forever. If Army and the top brass see the Cup window as open and can't see Allen capable of the task they have little choice.

Bishop & Fleury both have a much better proven track record than Allen. All options would have to be discussed. Varlamov could be another target.

Fleury has a track record of sometimes showing up in the playoffs, but more often then not, he plays terrible in the playoffs.