No, teams in the CHL have to adhere to strct drafting rules regarding territory. No, Ontario does not have colonization in Sweden
Hence, Import draft is sufficient
Hence, Import draft is sufficient
Should Euros be able to play in the CHL?
- Thread starter Big Phil
- Start date
- Status
Im as Canadian as they come, and my opinion is I dont even think they should restrict how many Imports can come over, I know everyones reaction right away will be that we'd be flooded with Euros , theyre taking away jobs from North Americans etc etc, But I personally dont think any team would end up taking more than 5 players. some points to consider.
1. if we had the Very best junior players the league will be much much better thus also improving any players playing in that league
2. why do we keep saying theyre taking JOBS away? plying hockey at that level is not a job, its an activity, and secondly its a busness, I know id watch more junior games if we had the elite players playing here.
3. so what happens to the players that get cut? well two things may happen, we can have more junior teams in the league, ie create more "JOBS"
or the next level of play now becomes stronger (thus also making that league stronger), and college teams stronger etc,essentially rather than a player entering the CHL at age of 15 (when hes not ready anyways) , he'll still play in that league but at age of 16 when hes more ready to play against older players, in essense he never lost a "job" he simply moves on to the next level when hes more ready.
in reality i think the euros have more to lose than we do, because theyre the ones losing their talent, and were getting the privelege of having the best leagues and watching the elite players.
1. if we had the Very best junior players the league will be much much better thus also improving any players playing in that league
2. why do we keep saying theyre taking JOBS away? plying hockey at that level is not a job, its an activity, and secondly its a busness, I know id watch more junior games if we had the elite players playing here.
3. so what happens to the players that get cut? well two things may happen, we can have more junior teams in the league, ie create more "JOBS"
or the next level of play now becomes stronger (thus also making that league stronger), and college teams stronger etc,essentially rather than a player entering the CHL at age of 15 (when hes not ready anyways) , he'll still play in that league but at age of 16 when hes more ready to play against older players, in essense he never lost a "job" he simply moves on to the next level when hes more ready.
in reality i think the euros have more to lose than we do, because theyre the ones losing their talent, and were getting the privelege of having the best leagues and watching the elite players.
Sammy said:
on the surface that seems to be what will happen, but I believe in reality this trickle efect you mention makes every division below it stronger, and secondly theres nothing to say we cant add more teams... thus no one really loses an opportunity, secondly why does a marginal whl or ohl'er deserve to play there? he will never have a chance to play in the NHL...so am I here to pay to watch him so he can fulfill his dream of playing in the WHL? no its my money..id rather watch an elite euro playing here, ..so we get a trickle down effect where now someone want to play hockey at a very weak level..... thats called recreation..and belive me..ive never seen anyone that wnats to play recreation in a sport and not be able to.
Vikke
ViktorAllvin twitter
I dont think its exactly a revelation that as it stands right now, its the Euro leagues that suffer by allowing imports.It would only be worse if Euro's were allowed to come over unfettered.Kronblom said:Finally one who see the real danger for european hockey.
Lowetide
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2002
- 13,281
- 11
Sammy said:
If NA kids who can't play in the WHL are forced to play in the AJHL then so be it. Playing at a high level at 17-18 isn't in the constitution. Plus as I understand it a lot of kids play in those leagues in order to stay eligible for NCAA play.
I don't understand this idea of protecting Canadian kids. Canadian kids are beating the living daylights out of the rest of the world in terms of players at high levels of all hockey. That's incredible based on population.
Not allowing players from other countries is short sighted. The level of competition prepares these young men for an NHL career. A kid who can score in the WHL at the rate Gilbert Brule did is going to have a career. How much of that is due to level of competition?
CHL has the best leagues in the world for that age group. Why make it less? Especially for some kid who isn't good enough.
Lowetide said:
I agree with almost everything but the stuff in bold... how is it incredible based on population? how does that work out?
Canada 32,805,041
Czech Republic 10,241,138
Finland 5,223,442
Slovakia 5,431,363
Russia 143,420,309
Sweden 9,001,774
United States 295,734,134
there's the big hockey countries... I only see two with a higher population than canada... I am not trying to take anything away form canada or your post I just don't agree with that little tidbit
4 nipple finn said:
Bulls eye. And in basically all of those other countries, hockey isn´t even their biggest sport either(maybe in Finland and Slovakia who has about five million). In Sweden, hockey is unfortunately not even close to soccer(who is undisputable nr 1). And track and field is bigger now as well i just read. We also have a sport who´s called floorball which is growing really fast(we are by far the best nation in the world in floorball), and taking a lot of our hockeytalent (i mean its such a similar sport). We also have handball, swimming, tennis etc etc The list goes on, and we are a very small country... how in the hell are we going to be able to produce top talent like Forsberg and Lidströms...
Ok im going very off-topic. But it seems so easy for canadians to hit up their chest, and say what a great hockeynation we are. Well, duh...
And now some of you are complaining that euros comes and takes canadian kid´s jobs. Thats just plain stupid. Be glad there are some nations who has teams in hockey, who you can compete with.
Last edited:
An Ape called Yoko said:
Sweden is small but so is Canada when compared to the US and Russia. Countries being good at sports has next to nothing to do with population sizes. It's all about the systems in place.
Some of the best soccer player producing countries in the world have very small populations when compared to other soccer nations.
IE: Netherlands 16 million vrs Brazil 186 Million
Epsilon
#basta
4 nipple finn said:
The Czech Republic's number in particular is pretty crazy when you consider just how good their international football and hockey teams are.
Lukko4
Registered User
I am a very firm believer that Europeans have a place in the CHL. I run the website and agency called EuroCHL, dedicated entirely to the presence of European players in Major Junior Hockey. I have worked with many players throughout the years and they all stand behind me on this, the CHL needs European talent.
As was previously stated, the CHL has expanded to 58 teams now. And in 2 years time, the Canadian Hockey Association wants the number of Europeans down to 1 per team.
The claim is, and always has been that the Europeans are taking away a job from a Canadian player, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. A European player is usually an impact player, if not is a player that is brought in to fill an organizational need. If a player is good enough, he will already be on the roster, and the European will not be taking his job. If you take out a top 3 European defenceman, then you are just going to add a 7th defenceman since d-men 4-6 will simply be moving up on the depth chart, and for that 7th defenceman, would he benefit more from playing 4 minutes every 3 games in Major Junior, or getting 15+ minutes of ice in Junior A?
With the addition of more teams, comes more depth players coming up, so having two Europeans helps you out, and gives you the chance to help build a team around some good young talent. Look at the two new expansion teams in the QMJHL, Saint John and St. John's. The Sea Dogs picked up Martin Bartos and Felix Schutz, while St. John's got first-rounder Nicklas Bergfors and Oscar Sundh. Not a bad start for an expansion team. Couple that with having top selections in the Q draft and also having 5 overagers the first year, these two teams can compete and that is so important in new markets, especially ones that are used to having high calibre (AHL) hockey.
But having two Europeans is even more important off the ice. The majority of the time, the two Europeans are always together, they rely so heavily on eachother for support and comfort. It isn't easy for some of these kids to pick up at 17 and leave home to go to a far-off land, with a new language and a new style of game. It can be very overwhelming for them, and the fact that they have someone there that can speak their language eases that transition. If the player feels comfortable away from the rink, it will help his performance on the ice. I have known guys who were alone in their team and they found it hard. Since they didn't have a great grasp of the language, they were shy and instead of the team helping him out, most of the players just ignored him, and he would just go to the rink, play the game and go right back home.
One of my favourites was a team that had a Slovak and a Russian. The Slovak had a year of experience playing in the States, so he had some english, while the Russian kid was completely lost. The Slovak guy told the Russian to just keep talking Russian to him and eventually he would pick it up. By the end of the season, the Slovak kid was able to speak Slovak, Czech, Russian, English and even some French, while the Russian kid was doing well in english. Two guys who at the start of the season couldn't really communicate became friends, and were able to help eachother out throughout the season.
It is tough for some of these kids who get off the plane and then are taken to their team which can be in a remote location, and being the only European on the team. They feel very intimidated since they have no one to talk to. I hated waiting after games and seeing all the players coming out to their families and having people greet them, while the European kids walk through the gathering of people, put their stuff on the bus, and then take their seat, waiting for everyone else to finish. With EuroCHL, we meet up with these kids, we help them out , talk to them, get to know them. It doesn't take much to get these kids to smile. If they hear someone speaking their language, it makes their day. For years I have brought native foods to players, stuff they haven't seen in months, and they love it. Just ask any European kid what he misses most about home, and the first thing, right after family, is the food.
As I said, I have been helping out the kids in the CHL for a few years, and have placed a couple of players in the CHL as well and the time they spend in the CHL is usually the hilight of their life. The families are exstatic, the players relish the opportunity, and it does so much for them, not only as hockey players, but as people too. I have gotten to know many of the families and it's then that you really see how important it is to have Europeans in the CHL. We see them as just hockey players, another piece of meat that can help the team win, but we forget all that goes along with being a hockey player, especially one that is 3000 km from home and is only 17.
Over the years, I have become friends with many of the Europeans in the CHL, have welcomed many of them into my home, and have spent lots of my own money to see that they are treated like they should be while they are here. I have bought phone cards, I have bought food, clothes, given rides to and from the airport, payed for many, many dinners and gotten lots of equipment, and to know that they appriciate the fact that someone over here cares about them, that is what it is all about.
This summer I went to Europe, visited 6 countries in just under a month's time and saw a lot of the guys who I had gotten to know while they were over here. Many of them are now professionals and they all reflected on their CHL careers as a positive step in their careers as well as their lives, and many of them still keep in touch with the other European that played with them on their junior team and some even end up reuniting! Just last week HK Riga 2000 a top team in Latvia signed Slovak player Marek Hascak. Also signing with Riga 2000 this year was Armands Berzins, a native Latvian who was a teammate with Hascak in Shawinigan, of the QMJHL. Two kids, from different backgrounds, meeting eachother in a small town in Quebec, still in contact two years later, end up together again. A great story.
One thing that still bothers me to this day is a lot of the fans around the CHL who like to pick on the European players, just cause they are an easy traget. I see it a lot here in the Q, where more or less every European kid is just called 'the Russian' by the fans. A player who hails from Ukraine, is not a Russian, he is a Ukrainian. A player who is from Slovakia is not a Czech, he is a Slovak. I wish people would take two seconds and learn where these kids come from. I have seen it enrage some kids who may be Latvian and are called a Russian or calling a Slovak a Czech. Find out where the kid is from, learn about his homeland, chances are it isn't too different from the small towns in the CHL. Have some respect for these kids, they gave up a lot to come here and persue their dreams.
So getting back to the point at hand, a limit on Europeans is understandible, it isn't every team that can afford some of the higher transfer fees, but limiting the European content to one per team is a mistake. If anything it should be increased to three, but two is fine. At EuroCHL we are very much against the CHL ruling and are starting a grassroots movement to help overturn the CHL's ruling and we already have the support of many current and former Europeans who played in the CHL. You will certainly hear more about this. I spent a few hundred dollars of my own money this year to get custom 'Livestrong' bands made supporting the Two Europeans per team in the CHL, and they will be distributed to the Europeans across the CHL as well as former players. We will also be eventually getting a petition up, so if anyone has any comments or anything, feel free to email me eurochl(at)eurochl.ca.
Many Languages, One Game!
Edit: As for the question of Junior-aged players from Canada playing in Europe, 19 year old Kevin Mailhiot of the QMJHL's Drummondville Voltigeurs, still with two years of Junior eligibility left has signed with Majadahonda HC in Spain. He retired from the Q last year because of concussion problems, but has re-surfaced in Europe. He is a 1986 birthdate
As was previously stated, the CHL has expanded to 58 teams now. And in 2 years time, the Canadian Hockey Association wants the number of Europeans down to 1 per team.
The claim is, and always has been that the Europeans are taking away a job from a Canadian player, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. A European player is usually an impact player, if not is a player that is brought in to fill an organizational need. If a player is good enough, he will already be on the roster, and the European will not be taking his job. If you take out a top 3 European defenceman, then you are just going to add a 7th defenceman since d-men 4-6 will simply be moving up on the depth chart, and for that 7th defenceman, would he benefit more from playing 4 minutes every 3 games in Major Junior, or getting 15+ minutes of ice in Junior A?
With the addition of more teams, comes more depth players coming up, so having two Europeans helps you out, and gives you the chance to help build a team around some good young talent. Look at the two new expansion teams in the QMJHL, Saint John and St. John's. The Sea Dogs picked up Martin Bartos and Felix Schutz, while St. John's got first-rounder Nicklas Bergfors and Oscar Sundh. Not a bad start for an expansion team. Couple that with having top selections in the Q draft and also having 5 overagers the first year, these two teams can compete and that is so important in new markets, especially ones that are used to having high calibre (AHL) hockey.
But having two Europeans is even more important off the ice. The majority of the time, the two Europeans are always together, they rely so heavily on eachother for support and comfort. It isn't easy for some of these kids to pick up at 17 and leave home to go to a far-off land, with a new language and a new style of game. It can be very overwhelming for them, and the fact that they have someone there that can speak their language eases that transition. If the player feels comfortable away from the rink, it will help his performance on the ice. I have known guys who were alone in their team and they found it hard. Since they didn't have a great grasp of the language, they were shy and instead of the team helping him out, most of the players just ignored him, and he would just go to the rink, play the game and go right back home.
One of my favourites was a team that had a Slovak and a Russian. The Slovak had a year of experience playing in the States, so he had some english, while the Russian kid was completely lost. The Slovak guy told the Russian to just keep talking Russian to him and eventually he would pick it up. By the end of the season, the Slovak kid was able to speak Slovak, Czech, Russian, English and even some French, while the Russian kid was doing well in english. Two guys who at the start of the season couldn't really communicate became friends, and were able to help eachother out throughout the season.
It is tough for some of these kids who get off the plane and then are taken to their team which can be in a remote location, and being the only European on the team. They feel very intimidated since they have no one to talk to. I hated waiting after games and seeing all the players coming out to their families and having people greet them, while the European kids walk through the gathering of people, put their stuff on the bus, and then take their seat, waiting for everyone else to finish. With EuroCHL, we meet up with these kids, we help them out , talk to them, get to know them. It doesn't take much to get these kids to smile. If they hear someone speaking their language, it makes their day. For years I have brought native foods to players, stuff they haven't seen in months, and they love it. Just ask any European kid what he misses most about home, and the first thing, right after family, is the food.
As I said, I have been helping out the kids in the CHL for a few years, and have placed a couple of players in the CHL as well and the time they spend in the CHL is usually the hilight of their life. The families are exstatic, the players relish the opportunity, and it does so much for them, not only as hockey players, but as people too. I have gotten to know many of the families and it's then that you really see how important it is to have Europeans in the CHL. We see them as just hockey players, another piece of meat that can help the team win, but we forget all that goes along with being a hockey player, especially one that is 3000 km from home and is only 17.
Over the years, I have become friends with many of the Europeans in the CHL, have welcomed many of them into my home, and have spent lots of my own money to see that they are treated like they should be while they are here. I have bought phone cards, I have bought food, clothes, given rides to and from the airport, payed for many, many dinners and gotten lots of equipment, and to know that they appriciate the fact that someone over here cares about them, that is what it is all about.
This summer I went to Europe, visited 6 countries in just under a month's time and saw a lot of the guys who I had gotten to know while they were over here. Many of them are now professionals and they all reflected on their CHL careers as a positive step in their careers as well as their lives, and many of them still keep in touch with the other European that played with them on their junior team and some even end up reuniting! Just last week HK Riga 2000 a top team in Latvia signed Slovak player Marek Hascak. Also signing with Riga 2000 this year was Armands Berzins, a native Latvian who was a teammate with Hascak in Shawinigan, of the QMJHL. Two kids, from different backgrounds, meeting eachother in a small town in Quebec, still in contact two years later, end up together again. A great story.
One thing that still bothers me to this day is a lot of the fans around the CHL who like to pick on the European players, just cause they are an easy traget. I see it a lot here in the Q, where more or less every European kid is just called 'the Russian' by the fans. A player who hails from Ukraine, is not a Russian, he is a Ukrainian. A player who is from Slovakia is not a Czech, he is a Slovak. I wish people would take two seconds and learn where these kids come from. I have seen it enrage some kids who may be Latvian and are called a Russian or calling a Slovak a Czech. Find out where the kid is from, learn about his homeland, chances are it isn't too different from the small towns in the CHL. Have some respect for these kids, they gave up a lot to come here and persue their dreams.
So getting back to the point at hand, a limit on Europeans is understandible, it isn't every team that can afford some of the higher transfer fees, but limiting the European content to one per team is a mistake. If anything it should be increased to three, but two is fine. At EuroCHL we are very much against the CHL ruling and are starting a grassroots movement to help overturn the CHL's ruling and we already have the support of many current and former Europeans who played in the CHL. You will certainly hear more about this. I spent a few hundred dollars of my own money this year to get custom 'Livestrong' bands made supporting the Two Europeans per team in the CHL, and they will be distributed to the Europeans across the CHL as well as former players. We will also be eventually getting a petition up, so if anyone has any comments or anything, feel free to email me eurochl(at)eurochl.ca.
Many Languages, One Game!
Edit: As for the question of Junior-aged players from Canada playing in Europe, 19 year old Kevin Mailhiot of the QMJHL's Drummondville Voltigeurs, still with two years of Junior eligibility left has signed with Majadahonda HC in Spain. He retired from the Q last year because of concussion problems, but has re-surfaced in Europe. He is a 1986 birthdate
Last edited:
Sammy said:
I don't know if there is a limit in Finland. There are foreign players in Finnish junior leagues though.
But you have to understand the difference here. I'm sure that if junior teams in Finland would start to sign lots of foreign players some kind of a limit would be imposed. Now there is no reason to do that, because tems and players don't really have much reason for this 'import' thing. Teams are not running any business and they don't gain anything financially from winning and the players are not gaining much by coming here. Most of the guys here are from lesser hockey contries, like Latvia, Estonia, even Hungary. They play here because the level is higher than back home. They aren't taking a job from a Finnish player, because the number of imports in SM-liiga is restricted, and that's the level where the jobs actually are. And half a dozen imports in the league is not going to hurt anyone's developement.
Canuck21t
Registered User
You sound as though Euros didn't know how to skate before they came to the CHLBig Phil said:
. Some of them even regress when they come to North America. There's only two reasons why Euros would want to play in the CHL and it's to get more exposure and to get used to the North American game, that's it that's all. The only advantage Euros have by having CHL players in their national team at an international tournament is that those players won't be intimidated by our physical play since they've experience it in the CHL but that's about it.
Canuck21t
Registered User
I may go OT here but the problem with many Canadians is that we suck in geography and can only compare to the US which we know are so much bigger than us and ignore the rest. Canadians tend to forget that other than the USA and Russia, the rest are so much smaller than us.4 nipple finn said:
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