Shea Weber's Cap recapture

[triggrman]

This assumes he'd retire and forfeit money. There's not benefit to retiring with money still on the table.

 

[NSH615]

This assumes he'd retire and forfeit money. There's not benefit to retiring with money still on the table.

Unless he doesn't want to go out like Vincent Lecavalier

 

[van22]

This assumes he'd retire and forfeit money. There's not benefit to retiring with money still on the table.

He is only paid 3x1M in the last three years on a contract of 110M. The underlying assumption behind the recapture penalty is that players knew they would not play out the full length of their contract when they signed and that they would de facto be leaving money on the table - the additional 1M tagged at the end of such contracts was simply a way for teams to reduce their cap hit.

 

[triggrman]

Also, I think it's only a per year advantage so the most it can be is 6.9m.

For any period during which the Player under a Long-Term
Contract is no longer playing in the League during the term of that
Long-Term Contract by reason of retirement, "defection" from the
NHL or otherwise (but not death) (such that he is not playing and
is not receiving Salary pursuant to that Long-Term Contract), an
amount attributable to that Player shall nonetheless continue to be
included in his Club's Averaged Club Salary as described below.
(1) Upon that Player's failure to play in the League by reason
of retirement, "defection" from the NHL or otherwise (but
not death) (such that he is not playing and is not receiving
Salary pursuant to his Long-Term Contract) (assuming it is
prior to the conclusion of the Long-Term Contract), the
difference between the sum of the Actual Salary and
Bonuses received by that Player under that SPC and the
sum of the Averaged Amounts charged against the Club's
Averaged Club Salary under that SPC shall be calculated as
follows:
(i) First, calculate the total Actual Salary and
Bonuses paid to that Player under that SPC ("Total
Payment") until the date of such retirement, defection or
otherwise (but not death);
(ii) Second, calculate the total Averaged
Amount charged against the Club's Averaged Club Salary
for the Player under that SPC ("Total Cap Charge") until
the date of such retirement, defection or otherwise (but not
death);
(iii) Subtract Total Cap Charge from Total
Payment. That number shall be referred to as the "Cap
Advantage Recapture."
(iv) The Cap Advantage Recapture shall be
charged against the Club's Averaged Club Salary in equal
proportions in each League Year over the remaining term
of the SPC (i.e., the yearly charge shall be calculated by
dividing the Cap Advantage Recapture by the number of
seasons remaining under that SPC).
(v) In the event of a "bona-fide" mid-season
retirement, the Cap Advantage Recapture as calculated
above shall be charged against the Club's Averaged Club
Salary beginning in the League Year following the Player's
retirement (provided, however, that in the event such
"bona-fide" mid-season retirement occurs in the final
267
ARTICLE 50 50.5-50.5
League Year of an SPC, any Cap Advantage Recapture
charge shall be included in the Club's Averaged Club
Salary in the following League Year). In such cases, there
shall be no charge against the Club's Averaged Club Salary
for the remainder of the League Year in which the Player
retires. The parties shall discuss in good faith the treatment
of a Cap Advantage Recapture charge in the case of a
retirement "orchestrated" for the sole purpose of delaying
the Cap Advantage Recapture charge to the following
League Year, and failing agreement, shall arbitrate the
issue.
Illustration #3: Assume that a Player signed a seven-year SPC beginning
in the 2010-11 League Year with an Averaged Amount of $5 million and
Actual Salary and Bonuses of the following amounts:
Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 Year 6 Year 7
$7,600,000 $7,600,000 $7,200,000 $7,000,000 $4,000,000 $1,000,000 $600,000
Assume that the Player retires after Year 5. The Total Payment equals the
total Actual Salary and Bonuses paid to the Player through Year 5, which
is $33.4 million (i.e., $7.6 million plus $7.6 million plus $7.2 million plus
$7 million plus $4 million). The Total Cap Charge equals the total
Averaged Club Salary for the Player through Year 5, which is $25 million
(i.e., $5 million times five years). Therefore, the Cap Advantage
Recapture for this SPC is $33.4 million minus $25 million, or $8.4
million. That amount will be recaptured by charging $4.2 million against
the Club's Averaged Club Salary in the subsequent League Year (Year 6)
and charging $4.2 million against the Club's Averaged Club Salary in the
next League Year (Year 7).
(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of Sections 50.5(d)(ii)(A)
and (B), in the event that any such Long-Term Contract is
Assigned during its term, each Club for which the Player
plays under the terms of that Long-Term Contract shall be
subject to being charged with any and all "Cap Advantage
Recapture" amounts it receives pursuant to that Long-Term
Contract, provided, however, that if a Club Traded a Long-
Term Contract prior to the execution of this Agreement
(including any binding Memorandum of Understanding)
under which it gained a "cap advantage," the "Cap
Advantage Recapture" shall not apply to that Club for that
Long-Term Contract. For purposes of clarity, the Club to
whom such Long-Term Contract was Assigned after the
execution of this Agreement (including any binding

 

[101st_fan]

Also, I think it's only a per year advantage so the most it can be is 6.9m.

If he remains a Pred, the recapture maxes out at just under 6.9million. If we trade him, we're screwed based on how much of a cap advantage there is across the first 6 years of the deal.

 

[triggrman]

Yeah, I see that now, still don't think it's real clear. Also, the original deal was signed by Philly and we matched, that doesn't seem to be covered.

 

[101st_fan]

Yeah, I see that now, still don't think it's real clear. Also, the original deal was signed by Philly and we matched, that doesn't seem to be covered.

We signed the actual contract ... it's on us.

 

[triggrman]

We signed the actual contract ... it's on us.

What if doesn't retire but instead is bought out?

 

[token grinder]

if we want to be a weaker team for the next 4 years or so, we trade weber now. if not, we don't.

stop it. that is silly talk round here. the keys to winning are smurfs.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

What if doesn't retire but instead is bought out?

Buyout would be 2/3 of remaining actual salary spread out over twice the remaining contract years. So if Weber retires 4 years early, he would get $4M of his $6M remaining salary spread out over 8 seasons ($500k per).

However, when the cap hit is higher than the actual salary, the difference between those two numbers is then added to the buyout amount for that season. So you'd be looking at cap hits of ~$5.3M, $7.3M, $7.3M, $7.3M, $500k, $500k, $500k, $500k. If I remember that correctly.

 

[triggrman]

So I guess we are stuck with Shea FN Weber.



Good.

 

[neelynugs]

i guess this is interesting to revisit now, eh?

 

[BonMorrison]

Bye bye.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Yeah, I need more details on how this is going to work. But I am sure Vingan is too busy talking to Canadian media people to give us anything.

 

[TychoFan]

The Preds currently have roughly $28.7m in cap recapture penalty accrued for Weber - from salary+bonuses paid in excess of his cap hit. That was going to go down starting the year after next once his salary+bonuses dipped below the cap hit, but now that we've traded him, it won't. It'll stay constant.

This is not an issue so long as Weber does not retire before the contract ends. If he does, though, it gets bad. Really, really bad:

Weber Retires In…|Age|Penalty 16-17|Penalty 17-18|Penalty 18-19|Penalty 19-20|Penalty 20-21|Penalty 21-22|Penalty 22-23|Penalty 23-24|Penalty 24-25|Penalty 25-26|Penalty 26-27
Immediately|30|$2,871,429|$2,871,429|$2,871,429|$2,871,429|$2,871,429|$2,871,429|$2,871,429|$2,871,429|$2,871,429|$2,871,429|$0
End of 16-17|31|n/a|$3,190,476|$3,190,476|$3,190,476|$3,190,476|$3,190,476|$3,190,476|$3,190,476|$3,190,476|$3,190,476|$0
End of 17-18|32|n/a|n/a|$3,589,286|$3,589,286|$3,589,286|$3,589,286|$3,589,286|$3,589,286|$3,589,286|$3,589,286|$0
End of 18-19|33|n/a|n/a|n/a|$4,102,041|$4,102,041|$4,102,041|$4,102,041|$4,102,041|$4,102,041|$4,102,041|$0
End of 19-20|34|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|$4,785,714|$4,785,714|$4,785,714|$4,785,714|$4,785,714|$4,785,714|$0
End of 20-21|35|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|$5,742,857|$5,742,857|$5,742,857|$5,742,857|$5,742,857|$0
End of 21-22|36|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|$7,178,571|$7,178,571|$7,178,571|$7,178,571|$0
End of 22-23|37|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|$9,571,428|$9,571,428|$9,571,428|$0
End of 23-24|38|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|$14,357,143|$14,357,143|$0
End of 24-25|39|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|$28,714,285|$0
End of 25-26 (contract end)|40|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|$0

(Total cap recapture figure taken from work done by BFC999, per a spreadsheet he was showing me earlier. Per-year penalty calculations are my own.)



Now that said, PK Subban is ****ing beautiful and amazing and I can't imagine anyone else I would prefer to have on the Predators. I just hope Shea doesn't end up screwing us.

Yeah, I need more details on how this is going to work. But I am sure Vingan is too busy talking to Canadian media people to give us anything.

We'll see what happens!

 

[mouser]

Weber's current recapture amount for Nashville after the 2015-16 season is $24.57m (4x $14m - 4x $7,857,142).

If he were to retire early then that cap hit would be spread equally across the remaining # of seasons on his contract at the time he retired.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Does it make any difference that the Preds didn't actually sign Weber to this deal, rather matched the Flyers offer sheet?

 

[101st_fan]

Does it make any difference that the Preds didn't actually sign Weber to this deal, rather matched the Flyers offer sheet?

We signed the deal so we're on the hook for any recapture.

 

[Byrddog]

Does it make any difference that the Preds didn't actually sign Weber to this deal, rather matched the Flyers offer sheet?

No we matched the sheet. We have the recapture penalty when he retires.

 

[Byrddog]

One good thing he was traded 2 daus before the last 12mil bonus was paid so I think that will need to be recalculated. Since the team will not realize that cap benefit this season

 

[101st_fan]

One good thing he was traded 2 daus before the last 12mil bonus was paid so I think that will need to be recalculated. Since the team will not realize that cap benefit this season

$24,572,000 of cap advantage.

 

[Legionnaire11]

After further thought and discussion. Weber isn't likely to stay healthy enough to finish this contract, he also isn't likely to retire and forfeit whatever millions are left on it. So it's most likely that he finished on LTIR and this whole recapture stuff is of no consequence.

 

[101st_fan]

After further thought and discussion. Weber isn't likely to stay healthy enough to finish this contract, he also isn't likely to retire and forfeit whatever millions are left on it. So it's most likely that he finished on LTIR and this whole recapture stuff is of no consequence.

The last three years of the deal are $1mil each in salary. I wouldn't walk away from 7 figures, but he could screw us hard if he wanted to.

 

[deanwormer]

As confusing as the recapture thing is, I can't believe that we're sitting on a $24mil benefit that would absolutely have to get "processed" if he retires early; that just doesn't seem like a risk Poile takes. Gotta' believe there's a piece missing......

 

[Byrddog]

$24,572,000 of cap advantage.

Thats what we have accrued right? They just divide the number of years he retires before 40. Like you said is he retires at 39 the franchise folds but like I pointed out numerous times in the past 35 is the most common age for a defensman in the league to retire so if Shea retires at 35 the cap hit will still be 4.92 per but worse things could happen. He could hold on life support until 38 just to pork us. Who knows.