Prospect Info: Sharks Prospect Info & Discussion Thread XX

[LadyStanley]

 

[Alaskanice]

I’d really like to see Graf come to San Jose. I know he doesn’t have ties here but he may get an opportunity to play.

 

[Gecklund]

I’d really like to see Graf come to San Jose. I know he doesn’t have ties here but he may get an opportunity to play.

Yep agreed. Would love Graf and Quillian.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I’d really like to see Graf come to San Jose. I know he doesn’t have ties here but he may get an opportunity to play.

That's a really good point. Having a chance to have actual NHL minutes should be Sharks calling card this summer. Also having Smith/Musty and others coming up in the system should give an extra motivation. New wave and similar aged players will help.

 

[mogambomoroo]

Just noticed Zellweger and Cagnoni are the same size, but Cagnoni has better points than him in the D+1 year + the playoffs are looking good. You could make an argument that Zellweger was drafted as 17 year old vs Cagnoni 18 year old. But still the similarities are there and that's good for our defensive prospect pool. If Cagnoni continues this growth, I could see him getting signed and getting a tryout.

 

[one2gamble]

Just noticed Zellweger and Cagnoni are the same size, but Cagnoni has better points than him in the D+1 year + the playoffs are looking good. You could make an argument that Zellweger was drafted as 17 year old vs Cagnoni 18 year old. But still the similarities are there and that's good for our defensive prospect pool. If Cagnoni continues this growth, I could see him getting signed and getting a tryout.

I don't know that he's going to grow anymore

 

[Alaskanice]

I don't know that he's going to grow anymore

I grew 4 inches after 18. Just saying.

 

[Wieters]

Really doubt he wants to leave millions in long term earnings on the table either.

The millions are going to be there whether he leaves this year or not. And there's a colorable argument you earn more over the long term by signing later. Plus he has an NIL deal with Chipotle among several other big-name brands, so in the current NCAA landscape it's not like he's hurting for money. Which probably explains how he showed up in a bespoke suit with the BC logo embroidered into the lining. Based on everything I've seen and heard from Smith this year, I think he very much enjoys his time at BC. The Sharks would need to give him a pretty compelling reason to leave at age 19, and I'm not sure it's as simple as money.

And what's the rush? Smith has looked like the teenager he is in the two tournament games so far. Cutter Gauthier went back for another season and is now a markedly better player this year than he was last. He made a couple of stellar assists today that he simply did not make last season. And he's now in the mix up and down the rink. I think there's a lot to gain from him getting another year of full minutes at this level.

 

[Hodge]

The millions are going to be there whether he leaves this year or not. And there's a colorable argument you earn more over the long term by signing later. Plus he has an NIL deal with Chipotle among several other big-name brands, so in the current NCAA landscape it's not like he's hurting for money. Which probably explains how he showed up in a bespoke suit with the BC logo embroidered into the lining. Based on everything I've seen and heard from Smith this year, I think he very much enjoys his time at BC. The Sharks would need to give him a pretty compelling reason to leave at age 19, and I'm not sure it's as simple as money.

And what's the rush? Smith has looked like the teenager he is in the two tournament games so far. Cutter Gauthier went back for another season and is now a markedly better player this year than he was last. He made a couple of stellar assists today that he simply did not make last season. And he's now in the mix up and down the rink. I think there's a lot to gain from him getting another year of full minutes at this level.

Cutter Gauthier very famously demanded a trade from the Flyers because they refused to let him sign with them immediately after his freshman year. Every single player with the opportunity to jump to the NHL will take it.

 

[Wieters]

Cutter Gauthier very famously demanded a trade from the Flyers because they refused to let him sign with them immediately after his freshman year. Every single player with the opportunity to jump to the NHL will take it.

This is not what Gauthier himself said when he announced his return. It's conjecture and post-hoc rationalization. And regardless, he's a better prospect now than he was a year ago.

Will Smith is also not the typical college player. He goes out of his way very regularly to talk about his connection to BC.

I’ve been dreaming of coming to BC my whole life. I remember being there as a little kid watching Johnny Gaudreau, you know now to be in his shoes just playing in TD is just really special

 

[Hodge]

This is not what Gauthier himself said when he announced his return. It's conjecture and post-hoc rationalization. And regardless, he's a better prospect now than he was a year ago.

Will Smith is also not the typical college player. He goes out of his way very regularly to talk about his connection to BC.

Lol of course Gauthier didn't publicly announce he was pissed at the Flyers for refusing to sign him while they were actively trying to honor his trade request.

Any agent (or "advisor" or w/e) worth their cut is going to strongly advise their client to turn pro ASAP. There are just too many uncertainties in a violent sport like hockey.

 

[Wieters]

Lol of course Gauthier didn't publicly announce he was pissed at the Flyers for refusing to sign him while they were actively trying to honor his trade request.

Any agent (or "advisor" or w/e) worth their cut is going to strongly advise their client to turn pro ASAP. There are just too many uncertainties in a violent sport like hockey.

The point is we don't know what soured the relationship between Gauthier and Philly. We do know that he publicly said he wanted to come back. And we know he's a better prospect now. We also know Smith enjoys being at BC and has struggled in the tournament so far. None of this adds up to Smith unquestionably moving on to the Sharks so long as they invite him as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[Hodge]

The point is we don't know what soured the relationship between Gauthier and Philly. We do know that he publicly said he wanted to come back. And we know he's a better prospect now. We also know Smith enjoys being at BC and has struggled in the tournament so far. None of this adds up to Smith unquestionably moving on to the Sharks so long as they invite him as you seem to be suggesting.

Top forward prospects don't go back to college for their D+2 seasons, least of all when they lead the nation in scoring, unless it's a situation like this one which literally resulted in a trade.

 

[Barrie22]

This is not what Gauthier himself said when he announced his return. It's conjecture and post-hoc rationalization. And regardless, he's a better prospect now than he was a year ago.

Will Smith is also not the typical college player. He goes out of his way very regularly to talk about his connection to BC.

Gauthier a few months before requesting a trade, i was made to be a flyer, i was born to be a flyer.

Kid could also be just a known bs'er, and will say anything to make himself look good.

 

[Wieters]

Top forward prospects don't go back to college for their D+2 seasons, least of all when they lead the nation in scoring, unless it's a situation like this one which literally resulted in a trade.

Literally first line in that clip: "I would say this... obviously something happened at the end of last season...Gauthier and his family and his advisor and everyone are gonna have to live with the fact that people are gonna guess." Followed by three minutes of guessing.

Here's a clip of Cutter Gauthier himself in April 2023, long before the trade, saying that he wanted to go back to school.

We don't know why. What we know is that Cutter went back to school, is two wins away from a national championship, is a better prospect/hockey player, and could still sign and start the clock if he wants.

And that's Cutter Gauthier, not Will Smith, who recruited Perrault to go to BC and has had 14 people in his family go to the school. Is it so unbelievable that a 19 year old would want to spend two years in college?

My only point in these discussions is that NHL fans seem to think that it's a foregone conclusion that every prospect would want to sign with their favorite team. But in the era of player empowerment and NIL deals, I don't think that's a slam dunk.

 

[Wieters]

Gauthier a few months before requesting a trade, i was made to be a flyer, i was born to be a flyer.

Kid could also be just a known bs'er, and will say anything to make himself look good.

That's possible. We don't know. But whatever the reason is, college is a viable enough outcome now that a guy like Gauthier is comfortable telling an NHL team to shove it. And he's no worse for the wear from it as a hockey player/prospect alone. This is a changing reality that I'm not sure NHL fans have fully caught up to yet. The NCAA is arguably the best developmental league now as not before, and players can get paid now.

 

[Hodge]

Literally first line in that clip: "I would say this... obviously something happened at the end of last season...Gauthier and his family and his advisor and everyone are gonna have to live with the fact that people are gonna guess." Followed by three minutes of guessing.

Here's a clip of Cutter Gauthier himself in April 2023, long before the trade, saying that he wanted to go back to school.

We don't know why. What we know is that Cutter went back to school, is two wins away from a national championship, is a better prospect/hockey player, and could still sign and start the clock if he wants.

And that's Cutter Gauthier, not Will Smith, who recruited Perrault to go to BC and has had 14 people in his family go to the school. Is it so unbelievable that a 19 year old would want to spend two years in college?

My only point in these discussions is that NHL fans seem to think that it's a foregone conclusion that every prospect would want to sign with their favorite team. But in the era of player empowerment and NIL deals, I don't think that's a slam dunk.

The era of player empowerment is exactly why it's in these kids' best interest to start the clock towards NHL free agency as soon as possible. Playing 40+ NHL games next season gets Smith there a year earlier. Signing now vs. a year from now also means he will be RFA rather than 10.2(c) when his ELC expires which gives him the added leverage of being able to sign an offer sheet.

For the record, I don't really think it makes a difference from the Sharks perspective whether he signs now or next year and there are good arguments that it would be preferable for him to continue developing at BC. I just doubt that's how he and his agent are thinking.

 

[Wieters]

The era of player empowerment is exactly why it's in these kids' best interest to start the clock towards NHL free agency as soon as possible. Playing 40+ NHL games next season gets Smith there a year earlier. Signing now vs. a year from now also means he will be RFA rather than 10.2(c) when his ELC expires which gives him the added leverage of being able to sign an offer sheet.

For the record, I don't really think it makes a difference from the Sharks perspective whether he signs now or next year and there are good arguments that it would be preferable for him to continue developing at BC. I just doubt that's how he and his agent are thinking.

From the perspective of an agent, I understand and agree. But the player/human being makes the decision and not the agent. Maybe most kids listen to their agents, but I don't think all will, especially not now given the leverage they have and the amount of noise/crowdsourced information now out there. We should know in the near future.

 

[Cas]

I don't think making individual to individual comparisons is meaningful.

 

[CaptainShark]

Kaspar Halttunen has found his way to the playoff scoresheet, getting his first 2 playoff-goals (one ES, one PP) and first star honors in a 6-4 win.

With that, Halttunen, Cagnoni and Musty are all up 2-0

 

[tiburon12]

You are conflating different things. Pride nights, etc. are a free lunch, they can attract new fans with no consequences anywhere else (again, the fan who is irritated by a gay pride night is one you should encourage leaving).

When you affect the on-ice product, then there is a cost you pay. Targeting a player for his nationality or ethnicity implies leaving some talent on the table. The Sharks would have done far more for their bottom line drafting Kopitar instead

I believe the poster was talking about in general that the Filipino community would support a Filipino player every night, not just on special nights.

But I think in an effort to be objective you're missing how un-objective the world is, so holding the Sharks (oddly not any other team who does the same things) to this loft standard of objectivity is strange.

Regarding Kopitar, you should listen to what Doug McLean has to say about that draft. And I know this is one example and GMDM was a bozo, but the context surrounding that draft was that scouting was all amuck because of the lockout, and you have the is potential star player from a country most havent even heard of atop the European Rankings. If you are coming out of the lockout looking to start a new era of a franchise (all teams were) and start with a bang, then it's understandable why it was super risky to pick Kopitar. GMDM said that even though Brule was a bust, he was a North American bust; it would have been worse if he passed on the NA kid for Kopitar and kopitar busted.

Regardless, we should expect by now to all understand that an NHL franchise is not an on-ice-only business.

 

[OrrNumber4]

But I think in an effort to be objective you're missing how un-objective the world is, so holding the Sharks (oddly not any other team who does the same things) to this loft standard of objectivity is strange.

This is the Sharks's board, which is why I'm discussing the failures in their processes.

Perfect objectivity is not possible, but it isn't a binary result. There are deficiencies in the way the Sharks do things, and if they want to be the best team in the league they'll need to fix every issue they can.

Regarding Kopitar, you should listen to what Doug McLean has to say about that draft. And I know this is one example and GMDM was a bozo, but the context surrounding that draft was that scouting was all amuck because of the lockout, and you have the is potential star player from a country most havent even heard of atop the European Rankings. If you are coming out of the lockout looking to start a new era of a franchise (all teams were) and start with a bang, then it's understandable why it was super risky to pick Kopitar. GMDM said that even though Brule was a bust, he was a North American bust; it would have been worse if he passed on the NA kid for Kopitar and kopitar busted.

1) Tim Burke specifically said that Kopitar was overrated, hence why they didn't draft him
2) What you're describing is the worldly wisdom that teaches us that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally. Organizations that break this mold can be tremendously successful.

 

[coooldude]

re: Smith, as has been discussed here and on his thread, I think the outcome of the tournament will have a big say in what happens. If they had lost yesterday with Smith having a pretty bad game, I think chances would be good he ran it back with Gabe as a team leader. No need to rush our prospects and I'm not sure I trust our AHL development anyway... Mukh seems to be coming along but I am perfectly happy letting the star stay an extra year if he wants.

It's not worth speculating about the player's personal motivations to me, except to say that I could believe either side (dream family school + NIL + friends + develop in a good league vs. make money and live the dream of playing in the NHL).

what I will say is that if Smith joins the sharks next year I don't expect him to score more than 35 points / 82, probably wouldn't play that many games anyway, and generally would look exciting only as a PP specialist. I don't think his game is ready to translate. I honestly think there are a lot of Pavs parallels and I'd be happy letting him cook longer, starting in the AHL, and bringing him up once he's above PPG with the Cuda.

 

[tiburon12]

Perfect objectivity is not possible, but it isn't a binary result. There are deficiencies in the way the Sharks do things, and if they want to be the best team in the league they'll need to fix every issue they can.

As is asking and expecting a team to "fix" every issue in an industry where there aren't infinite resources. I'd love to have Grier surround himself with Barb Underhill and Benoît Allaire, or have the team be in a strong enough market where Joe Will doesn't feel he needs Hertl to sell tickets.

I guess it felt like you were being unnecessarily harsh on the Sharks org (which i wont deny has definitely had issues) with that comment. It was either that or think you were just posting some platitude, which you are usually critical against haha.

I agree though that the org should be striving to "improve" every aspect of the org at all times, like any good business does. Otherwise they turn into government lol. But I don't hold it against them when they can't attract the best staff / decision makers available.

1) Tim Burke specifically said that Kopitar was overrated, hence why they didn't draft him
2) What you're describing is the worldly wisdom that teaches us that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally. Organizations that break this mold can be tremendously successful.

1) Sorry, i should have been clear that i was suggesting you should listen to what DM had to say for your own entertainment, not edification. I actually had no idea what the Sharks position was then, that was a few months before I became a fan.

2) "Can" is the operative word there. In GMDM's case, it was too risky to take Kopitar, especially since Brule wasn't a reach. IIRC he likely only busted for mental health reasons and poor early career injuries.

 

[StanleyCup2035]

I grew 4 inches after 18. Just saying.

I’m going to grow 4 inches if we win the lottery