Senators Having Attendance Problems?

[YEM]

Game 6 should be sold out or close to it by now. It's an elimination game in Ottawa. Game 7 is a game that 'could' happen.

There is no defending this now. It's an embarrassment.

not embarrassing, imo
didn't they jack up the prices for parking during the playoffs? that's embarrassing
the tickets are too expensive, that's the bottom line, it has nothing to do with the fans/support in the area

 

[Mightygoose]

Question assuming Ottawa makes it through on Thursday though it would apply to any team.

Is the Stanley Cup final considered more of a league event as opposed to hosted by the respective teams? Meaning more than a usual number of tickets would be allocated to the league’s corporate partners meaning less inventory to buy.

When Toronto hosted the MLS Cup final last year, it was treated that way. Though season ticket holders still got the first crack before the general public, their regular seats were not available. Caused a minor stir but of course it sold out quickly too.

Not sure if the NHL works the same way, then at least there will be no attendance watch.

 

[cbcwpg]

Question assuming Ottawa makes it through on Thursday though it would apply to any team.

Is the Stanley Cup final considered more of a league event as opposed to hosted by the respective teams? Meaning more than a usual number of tickets would be allocated to the league’s corporate partners meaning less inventory to buy.

When Toronto hosted the MLS Cup final last year, it was treated that way. Though season ticket holders still got the first crack before the general public, their regular seats were not available. Caused a minor stir but of course it sold out quickly too.

Not sure if the NHL works the same way, then at least there will be no attendance watch.

Not that we have had any actual experience with the Winnipeg Jets ( other than 2 games ) , but when they are selling tickets for the playoffs, each season ticket holder is allowed to purchase their season ticket seats for all 4 rounds. Either pay as you go or all 4 rounds at once kind of thing. So if all the STHs decide to get thier full playoff tickets, there wouldn't be that much available for anyone else. But we are in a smaller building as well.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Well, according to reports as recently as 2016 he's worth $1.2B though at 86 a little unlikely he'd have any interest in pursuing an NHL Franchise for Hamilton huh?. He's long since moved on. Believe he resides in Nova Scotia (originally from there, moved to Hamilton, became a Cop before co-founding the donut chain with Tim Horton) where he's built a luxury golf resort, interests in aviation, real estate holdings... He does have a Son who's actually married to one of Tim Hortons Daughters & they own a couple of Tim Hortons locations in Southern Ontario. He's donated quite a lot of money to the community, McMaster University with the Stadium etc. He said in an interview years after being given the cold shoulder by the NHL that he was actually happy he didnt secure a team as given the business model of tha era & the $50M entry fee he figured it would've been rough going, choppy seas in Hamilton at that particular time in the cities history. Things have of course changed considerably since the 90's early 00's, no question as far as most are concerned including the NHL the market would not only support the NHL but also easily be a Top 5 in Revenues. And that's actually a problem (in addition to the issues with Toronto & Buffalo) as it would raise the CAP Floor, causing problems elsewhere. Also of course the amount of $$$ required, satisfying the Sabres & Leafs, new building, "Premium Entry Fee" beyond $500M so staggering, tables tilted against anyone really taking a serious run at it. Youd have to spend hundreds of millions up-front with no guarantee you'd actually get in, that Toronto & Buffalo could be appeased and at what price?

Well there you go. By this, you can tell spending 1.5 billion dollars on something else is a better investment. What a shame, and with the NHL having 2 or 3 problem children all the time, it seems the carousel just goes on and on and on...

 

[Caeldan]

Question assuming Ottawa makes it through on Thursday though it would apply to any team.

Is the Stanley Cup final considered more of a league event as opposed to hosted by the respective teams? Meaning more than a usual number of tickets would be allocated to the league’s corporate partners meaning less inventory to buy.

When Toronto hosted the MLS Cup final last year, it was treated that way. Though season ticket holders still got the first crack before the general public, their regular seats were not available. Caused a minor stir but of course it sold out quickly too.

Not sure if the NHL works the same way, then at least there will be no attendance watch.

I know last time around, Ottawa only released something like 1000 tickets per game to be sold online for the general public.
Everything else was used as bait for STH packages for the next season. And the league does get some seats as well I believe.

 

[WadeRedden]

I don't post very often but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents...

There are many factors (and i know many have already been talked about: Location, price, price of all other items (parking,food,etc..) lack of potential corporate support, etc..) But let me go into it with some slightly different view points on these and other things...

The location: Yes the location is bad when you consider that more than 75% of the market lives more than 30 minutes away, having said that, the distance isn't really the issue it's the fact that you (with 90% certainty) have to drive there as there isn't any good public transit connection to the arena which means that you have to park there which for the playoffs is $30 which means an extra cost, it also means sitting in the parking lot for a long time (unless you leave early, an no true fans wants to do that during the playoffs) so the combination of these things make it an issue for a lot of people. even more when you combine it with:

The time of game: Considering most have to drive as i just said and live far away, an 8pm game time on a weekday where the game ends at 11pm and you have to wait 1 hour almost to leave the arena and add 30 minutes minimum for most to get home you're looking at being home close to 1am on a weekday where some might have meetings at 8:30 the next morning. Talking for myself only i wouldn't let that keep me from a game but i know a lot of people that would look at that as an issue if they have to wake up at 5:30 the next morning... and that's only if the game doesn't go to overtime.

The price: Now.. i know a lot of people talk about resale prices being cheap but i'll get to that in a second.. the retail price of the games are very high and they go up with every round you advance, which is the same in every market yes.. but in most markets as has been said many times a good portion is taken up by corporations whereas we don't have that luxury here in Ottawa. The private sector is starting to grow again but not enough to be to the point where the market can sustain an increase in price like they're doing. At one point or another the team has to stop looking at emulating what other markets are doing and understand that you can't always follow the others for everything and we can't increase the price of tickets the way that they are in addition to price of parking etc.. during a regular season game you can get parking for $15 but now it's doubled during the playoffs? which of course bring me to resale:

Price of resale: A lot of people here always like to point out to people saying that the prices are too high that there are resale points like stubhub where you can get much cheaper tickets... That is absolutely true... however here's the big issue and i'm being 100% serious here... I know we as ravaged fans that come here on hfboards to discuss all things hockey are well aware of stubhub.. but in the general public in Ottawa (and this is a fact) people are just not aware of stubhub (what it is, how it works) There has been almost zero advertising of stubhub in the Ottawa market or education of what it is.. they came on as a partner to the NHL a few years ago but people here just don't know about it enough or to some degree as some people had told me (where i had to educate them further) don't trust it or think it's some sort of scam.. so for the large part the resale prices just aren't a known thing in this market... they equate it almost to scalpers which is sometimes feared as a possible scam. So you absolutely have to look at the full retail fare as the fare that people see.. at the same time most people probably think you're talking about scalpers or ebay/kijiji when you talk about resale in Ottawa. which bring me to the next point:

Marketing: The marketing team at the Senators have to give their heads a shake.. now i'm not defending the guy that got fired by Melnyk and is now suing Melnyk for wrongful dismissal.. he probably should have gotten fired but probably not in the way he did... the marketing has been horrible in terms of drumming up passion and building a connection with the fanbase.. and I work in Marketing so i'm not talking out of hot air here.. when trying to sell anything you have to sell an experience, a connection and build a passion for your product or service. The senators haven't at all.. instead they rely on minor league type in game entertainment and promotions and hope that it will garner interest from fans. I'm not going to go to a game because they give a bobblehead or because they have prime minister mascots skating around during an intermission.. nor am i going to buy tickets because you show me a quick clip (while i'm watching a sens game) of some quick goals and hits set to rock music... i'm not in the 80's or 90's... those are completely outdated methods to reach a customer base and much more to keep a long term customer base.

to sum up... yes the new downtown arena should fix a lot of issues.. but hopefully at the same time they fix pricing and marketing issues and it'll fix everything.

in the meantime let's not argue about a few hundred unsold seats.. it's not going to change the world at these prices and should only serve as a message to the team administration.

let's enjoy the ride along the way and just yell Go Sens Go!! as loud as we can so that our support is heard across the city and to whoever is out there listening.

Couple things...

Location: Of course. Jacking up the parking prices was silly since most fans think $15-20 is crazy to begin with. I went to both games 4 and 6 and I noticed during game 4 (Friday night) that there were a tonne of fans from out of town. Many had come from Nova Scotia or Pittsburgh and you could tell a lot of them were rattled that they couldn't go out somewhere after the game.

Time of Game: Sorry, but your argument sucks here. For years people have been complaining that 7 and 7:30pm starts don't afford people in the east end enough time to go home and eat/change after work before coming to the game. They move the start time to 8pm and now people are complaining about getting home too late? It has to start at some time, right? Any time between 7 and 8pm is completely standard. I'd be willing to bet that 8pm is more convenient for the vast majority of people. Yeah, you get home a little later but at least you don't miss the first 10 mins of the first period.

The Price: Agree with you here. They set a price and the market didn't respond. The team and media can try to shame fans into making a a purchase they're not comfortable with or the team can adjust their prices. Even shaving $30 of crappy 300 level, behind-the-net seats could be a big help to a family of three.

Marketing: I agree that their marketing is terrible but it's tough to pass judgement without knowing what their budget it. Melnyk is notoriously stingy so it wouldn't surprise me if they had almost nothing to work with. For what it's worth, I think their social media team does a fantastic job producing mini-videos for Twitter and Instagram.

 

[Fenway]

Move the team to Gatineau!

The irony is Hull/Gatineau was the preferred location for a new arena over Kanata but the NHL said no as they did not want three teams in Quebec and only one in Ontario at the time.

 

[ColinM]

I don't post very often but i just wanted to put in my 2 cents...

There are many factors (and i know many have already been talked about: Location, price, price of all other items (parking,food,etc..) lack of potential corporate support, etc..) But let me go into it with some slightly different view points on these and other things...

The location: Yes the location is bad when you consider that more than 75% of the market lives more than 30 minutes away, having said that, the distance isn't really the issue it's the fact that you (with 90% certainty) have to drive there as there isn't any good public transit connection to the arena which means that you have to park there which for the playoffs is $30 which means an extra cost, it also means sitting in the parking lot for a long time (unless you leave early, an no true fans wants to do that during the playoffs) so the combination of these things make it an issue for a lot of people. even more when you combine it with:

The time of game: Considering most have to drive as i just said and live far away, an 8pm game time on a weekday where the game ends at 11pm and you have to wait 1 hour almost to leave the arena and add 30 minutes minimum for most to get home you're looking at being home close to 1am on a weekday where some might have meetings at 8:30 the next morning. Talking for myself only i wouldn't let that keep me from a game but i know a lot of people that would look at that as an issue if they have to wake up at 5:30 the next morning... and that's only if the game doesn't go to overtime.

The price: Now.. i know a lot of people talk about resale prices being cheap but i'll get to that in a second.. the retail price of the games are very high and they go up with every round you advance, which is the same in every market yes.. but in most markets as has been said many times a good portion is taken up by corporations whereas we don't have that luxury here in Ottawa. The private sector is starting to grow again but not enough to be to the point where the market can sustain an increase in price like they're doing. At one point or another the team has to stop looking at emulating what other markets are doing and understand that you can't always follow the others for everything and we can't increase the price of tickets the way that they are in addition to price of parking etc.. during a regular season game you can get parking for $15 but now it's doubled during the playoffs? which of course bring me to resale:

Price of resale: A lot of people here always like to point out to people saying that the prices are too high that there are resale points like stubhub where you can get much cheaper tickets... That is absolutely true... however here's the big issue and i'm being 100% serious here... I know we as ravaged fans that come here on hfboards to discuss all things hockey are well aware of stubhub.. but in the general public in Ottawa (and this is a fact) people are just not aware of stubhub (what it is, how it works) There has been almost zero advertising of stubhub in the Ottawa market or education of what it is.. they came on as a partner to the NHL a few years ago but people here just don't know about it enough or to some degree as some people had told me (where i had to educate them further) don't trust it or think it's some sort of scam.. so for the large part the resale prices just aren't a known thing in this market... they equate it almost to scalpers which is sometimes feared as a possible scam. So you absolutely have to look at the full retail fare as the fare that people see.. at the same time most people probably think you're talking about scalpers or ebay/kijiji when you talk about resale in Ottawa. which bring me to the next point:

Marketing: The marketing team at the Senators have to give their heads a shake.. now i'm not defending the guy that got fired by Melnyk and is now suing Melnyk for wrongful dismissal.. he probably should have gotten fired but probably not in the way he did... the marketing has been horrible in terms of drumming up passion and building a connection with the fanbase.. and I work in Marketing so i'm not talking out of hot air here.. when trying to sell anything you have to sell an experience, a connection and build a passion for your product or service. The senators haven't at all.. instead they rely on minor league type in game entertainment and promotions and hope that it will garner interest from fans. I'm not going to go to a game because they give a bobblehead or because they have prime minister mascots skating around during an intermission.. nor am i going to buy tickets because you show me a quick clip (while i'm watching a sens game) of some quick goals and hits set to rock music... i'm not in the 80's or 90's... those are completely outdated methods to reach a customer base and much more to keep a long term customer base.

to sum up... yes the new downtown arena should fix a lot of issues.. but hopefully at the same time they fix pricing and marketing issues and it'll fix everything.

in the meantime let's not argue about a few hundred unsold seats.. it's not going to change the world at these prices and should only serve as a message to the team administration.

let's enjoy the ride along the way and just yell Go Sens Go!! as loud as we can so that our support is heard across the city and to whoever is out there listening.

I agree with you for the start time. For an 8:00 PM start you are likely getting out of the parking lot around 11 and if you are like me, you have to be out of bed at 6:00 AM. That's really a non starter at the beginning of a work week.

Where do you see the supply within this issue. If tickets sold were set at 18000 firm the entire season rather than having fluctuating capacity in the 19000 range, would this seem like as big of a perception problem?

 

[NorthCoast]

Couple things...

Location: Of course. Jacking up the parking prices was silly since most fans think $15-20 is crazy to begin with. I went to both games 4 and 6 and I noticed during game 4 (Friday night) that there were a tonne of fans from out of town. Many had come from Nova Scotia or Pittsburgh and you could tell a lot of them were rattled that they couldn't go out somewhere after the game.

Time of Game: Sorry, but your argument sucks here. For years people have been complaining that 7 and 7:30pm starts don't afford people in the east end enough time to go home and eat/change after work before coming to the game. They move the start time to 8pm and now people are complaining about getting home too late? It has to start at some time, right? Any time between 7 and 8pm is completely standard. I'd be willing to bet that 8pm is more convenient for the vast majority of people. Yeah, you get home a little later but at least you don't miss the first 10 mins of the first period.

The Price: Agree with you here. They set a price and the market didn't respond. The team and media can try to shame fans into making a a purchase they're not comfortable with or the team can adjust their prices. Even shaving $30 of crappy 300 level, behind-the-net seats could be a big help to a family of three.

Marketing: I agree that their marketing is terrible but it's tough to pass judgement without knowing what their budget it. Melnyk is notoriously stingy so it wouldn't surprise me if they had almost nothing to work with. For what it's worth, I think their social media team does a fantastic job producing mini-videos for Twitter and Instagram.

Price: that is the only thing that matters.

As I explained in the similar thread in the Playoffs section, everyone is totally missing the main issue.

The objective of the sens/melnyk is NOT to sell out the arena. The objective is to maximise revenue.

This means that melnyk will happily miss out on a few hundred tickets if it means everyone that did attend paid a 10% premium or was subverted into a package for new season. If they could sell just 1 single ticket for 10 million and have the rest of the stadium empty they would do it.

It has nothing to do with the fans. If ticket prices were $1 then the stadium would sell out. This is pure market economics, and a 50% increase on 95% of tickets sold is better than a 10% increase with a sell out.

All these markets claiming that "our fan base is better because we sold out right away" are only highlighting that those teams chose to leave money on the table to ensure that they sold out the arena. It's totally the prerogative of the sens to set the price what they want and if they don't want to sell out the arena so that they make more money on each ticket that's up to them.

If anyone's is really concerned that not enough fans are getting out to the games then where are all the threads complaining about how Nashville and Anaheim have stadiums with only 17.1k capacities, which means that even when they sell out, they are only at around 90% of Ottawa's capacity. Does that means those fan bases are crap because they can't support a larger stadium?

 

[schulzte]

The Red Wings saw this a few years ago. They sold out the entire regular season per usual, but jacked the prices for playoff tickets out of the sky, like $100 for the nosebleeds in the first round. The economy was shaky at the time, and finally people just couldn't do it anymore. Suddenly there were 2,000+ empty seats at playoff games after 10-15 years of sellouts. The Red Wings realized that they'd made a mistake and that Round 1 and 2 games should not be sold at such enormous markups over regular season prices. In successive years, early round playoff games weren't so pricey and sellouts resumed.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...-turris-extension-jean-gabriel-pageau-chabot/
Fox asks for action

After a couple of slow-selling Sens playoff games made embarrassing headlines across Canada and the U.S., an extensive look into ticket pricing and the club’s marketing strategy must be made, while the push for a downtown rink continues.

 

[Stampede2017]

Every reason and stats are all excuses. How can there be seats left for sale on ticketmaster at regular price for any playoff games in Canada, especially when we proclaim that we are a hockey nation and had invented the game. Shame on the Sens bandwagon type fans for not filling the arena. Consider Edmonton is also a government and union run town and the economy is specially hit hard in Alberta these days with unemployment rate hovering around 10%. They sell out their concourse passes in 5 min to watch TV only standing up at $80 a piece and be allowed to use the washrooms. $100 for nosebleed playoff tickets is a bargain in most Canadian city. Stop making excuses Ottawa. Shame on you so call Sens fans. The fan base doesn't deserve a team. When waiting lists in Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg are 4-20 years for season tickets. Shame on you

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

If this happened in a couple other markets, they would be murdered in the press.

I'm seeing a lot of excuses which would be ridiculed. I guess it takes it happening close to home to see the sports bubble.

 

[pepty]

The Red Wings saw this a few years ago. They sold out the entire regular season per usual, but jacked the prices for playoff tickets out of the sky, like $100 for the nosebleeds in the first round. The economy was shaky at the time, and finally people just couldn't do it anymore. Suddenly there were 2,000+ empty seats at playoff games after 10-15 years of sellouts. The Red Wings realized that they'd made a mistake and that Round 1 and 2 games should not be sold at such enormous markups over regular season prices. In successive years, early round playoff games weren't so pricey and sellouts resumed.

If this happened in a couple other markets, they would be murdered in the press.

I'm seeing a lot of excuses which would be ridiculed. I guess it takes it happening close to home to see the sports bubble.

The Sens would have sold out their games with plenty left over if their arena was as small as your team, the Jets.

As far as a corporate ticket base the Sens have the smallest one in Canada -Edmonton is not really a comparison they are in oil country

By the way Ton Aselmi who would know ,says that half the Leafs seats are sold to corporations and most people in those seats are not paying for them. It is the opposite in Ottawa where most people buy their own tickets and with the Phoenix pay debacle, many of them have not been paid for a long time and that is something that the Sens management should have been aware of before they hiked the prices.

The above post by Schulz is interesting as very much the same thing happened here
It is useful to let team management know that no matter how much we love our team they cant just keep hiking the prices with every round, there are limits.

On the other hand the posts that just take cheap shots at the Sens and Sens fans are sour grapes by resentful fans bitter that their own teams have failed to advance and are neither informed nor interesting.

 

[Korpse]

As far as a corporate ticket base the Sens have the smallest one in Canada -Edmonton is not really a comparison they are in oil country

I found his comparison with Edmonton being a government town an odd one. It's not hard to get a free ticket to oiler games. Everyone has several buddies who can get them from work.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

The Sens would have sold out their games with plenty left over if their arena was as small as your team, the Jets.

And that has what to do with what?

I think most sports are in a big time bubble, which could lead to a disastrous few years a decade down the road.

I believe something like this is a bellweather for really bad stuff upcoming, and it should be discussed seriously higher up in the league.

But if this happened say, in Phoenix, the megathread would be infested with drive by shots at the franchise and market, instead of a nuanced look. This deserves a nuanced look as well, and its the privilege of being a Canadian market that grants that. The same would be true anywhere in Canada.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't know if Eugene Melnyk meant he wanted support from Leafs fans in terms of purchasing tickets because prior to Game 6 against Pittsburgh I believe he wanted fans across Canada to support the Senators. I bring that up because on TSN 1050 in Toronto I was listening to OverDrive and it's host Bryan Hayes mentioned how in 2004 Melnyk wanted to ban Leafs fans from wearing their jerseys at Senators home games when they played Toronto. He went onto to say how for Game 6 in 2004 a lot of Leafs fans purchased tickets on the off chance it would be played, because they would either get a refund if the series didn't go at least 6 games or they would take over the Canadian Tire Centre (Corel Centre name at the time) to stick it to him. Basically the thought it was why would the Leafs fans support Ottawa this year when their owner wanted to ban Leafs fans from wearing their jerseys in the past.

 

[Stampede2017]

At the end of the day, it is extremely embarrassing as a Canadian hockey fan to see the CTC NOT sold out in the biggest game of the year - game 6 of the conference final. Come on Ottawa Sens fans, there is absolutely no excuses. Please don't say it's sour grape from other Canadian teams not going as deep as the Sens, because I cheered my lungs out too. Instead of getting upset at other cities taking shots at you, tell your fellow Sens fan to go to the playoff for God sake. Just wait until it's too late and your lose your team. When it almost happened to the Flames in 2000 and the owner Harley Hotchkiss had to tell the fans the reality of the team potentially moving. It wasn't the big corporations that saved the Flames, it was small guys like me who pooled together 5 to 6 friends and bought season tickets as a group and the rest is history. We still have the same seats til today. Please stop making excuses Sens fans, buy your season tickets or risk losing your team. It's only business nothing personal like they say. It just made me so mad to see empty seats in game 6 of the conference final Get real !!!

 

[Stampede2017]

Final thought $120 for nosebleed seats is cheap in the playoff. Look at the prices in the other Canadian cities. Edmonton concourse passes are $80 just to stand and watch TV and use the washroom, no view of the ice at all.

 

[WadeRedden]

Final thought $120 for nosebleed seats is cheap in the playoff. Look at the prices in the other Canadian cities. Edmonton concourse passes are $80 just to stand and watch TV and use the washroom, no view of the ice at all.

if you pay '$80 to watch a hockey game from the concourse of an arena you're a monumental sucker. The owners are probably laughing their ***** off

 

[Leafs24Seven*]

Final thought $120 for nosebleed seats is cheap in the playoff. Look at the prices in the other Canadian cities. Edmonton concourse passes are $80 just to stand and watch TV and use the washroom, no view of the ice at all.

That's just called stupidity

 

[Cacciaguida]

oh the humanity, game six only sold 18,111 tickets out of 18,572



The Senators are going nowhere.

 

[NorthCoast]

MOD

So all of these teams:

Anaheim
Detroit
Florida
New Jersey
New York Islanders
Ottawa
Carolina
Colorado
San Jose
Arizona
Columbus
Nashville

Not too mention many teams fans have complained about fake-sell outs where many of the seats are still empty.

I assume that your a Calgary fan, so here is a whole thread on Calgary fans discussing why one of your playoff games wasn't actually fully sold out and that many seats were empty at the game.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=161630