Selke finalists: Bergeron (BOS), Couturier (PHI) & Kopitar (LA).

[MorgantiDrinksBlood]

He is arguing that couturier is a better overall player than Barkov. It’s a completely laughable take

I would rather have Coots moving forward. Barkov has never had a FULLY healthy season (82 Games) in his entire career and he's clearly not a top 3 defensive forward (Yet). Great player, prefer Couturier.

 

[StoneHands]

He is arguing that couturier is a better overall player than Barkov. It’s a completely laughable take

I know it's disguised as the best defensive forward but let's be real, the Selke award is essentially the best two-way player in the NHL award so for at least this season, the voters disagree with you. I would take Barkov over Couturier going forward because he's younger and while I think Couts has the slight edge defensively, Barkov will probably be a consistent 70+ point player while I think Couts is more of a 60+ guy moving forward. I know you disagree and that's fine but it's also not "laughable" any time someone disagrees with you and it really doesn't help when you just throw out hyperbole after hyperbole without backing up any statements you make.

 

[Beezeral]

I know it's disguised as the best defensive forward but let's be real, the Selke award is essentially the best two-way player in the NHL award so for at least this season, the voters disagree with you. I would take Barkov over Couturier going forward because he's younger and while I think Couts has the slight edge defensively, Barkov will probably be a consistent 70+ point player while I think Couts is more of a 60+ guy moving forward. I know you disagree and that's fine but it's also not "laughable" any time someone disagrees with you and it really doesn't help when you just throw out hyperbole after hyperbole without backing up any statements you make.

let me help you a bit. this is hyperbole

Stop being bitter because Coot's is a Selke finalist. Coots >>>> Barkoxv AINECt just people catering to a small market that make the poll close, has Barkov even had 5 points in a regular season game? gtfo.

You Florida homers are the only one's in the league who would Take Barkov over Coot's.

as for your post, I don't really disagree with you. Go back through my history in this thread and others. I've never said a bad thing about Couturier. I have repeatedly said he is a good player.

As for your comment about voters, it's well established that players on small market teams struggle to win awards. Your guy got the nod this year, but that doesn't mean he was better, it just means he got more votes. There are plenty of stats that support Barkov as the better defensive player (and yes, there are stats that support Couturier as well).

If you want to argue Couturier is the better defensive player, go for it. I respectfully disagree but won't blame a flyers fan for wanting their guy. We already had a poll that Sasso guaranteed Couturier would win handily that showed people on HF prefer Barkov when it comes to just defense. (yes I readily admit that HF polls hold very little weight in arguments, but when someone guarantees something will happen and the opposite does, it probably shows that one side of the argument is a bit off base.

But yeah, when flyers fans are going to jump in and argue that only homer florida fans are going to take barkov over couturier without any qualifiers, yeah, I'm going to call that a laughable take. One player has been great defensively for his entire career and been an excellent overall player for 3 years, the other has been great defensively for his entire career but didn't have a noteworthy offensive game until this year. Couturier had a breakout year, but even then, couldn't put up more points than Barkov. Prior to that, Couturier hadn't broken 40 points. So to call the Panthers fans the homers ITT is a bit much.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Barkov > Coots as a player let's not get ahead of ourselves but god damn what I just witnessed Coots do against Pitt while playing with a torn ACL really put him on another level for me... If regular season awards were at all impacted by playoffs this should probably solidify Giroux as not even a top 3-5 contender because I think we know who drove the line's success as I don't think Giroux had a single point when Coots wasn't on his line whereas Coots carried a line with Simmonds/Read.

 

[StoneHands]

Barkov > Coots as a player let's not get ahead of ourselves but god damn what I just witnessed Coots do against Pitt while playing with a torn ACL really put him on another level for me... If regular season awards were at all impacted by playoffs this should probably solidify Giroux as not even a top 3-5 contender because I think we know who drove the line's success as I don't think Giroux had a single point when Coots wasn't on his line whereas Coots carried a line with Simmonds/Read.

Couts was awesome but let's not get crazy looking at a few games in the playoffs to determine who is the driver of that line. It was Giroux all year and that's really not much of a debate. The two of them certainly feed off of each other and Giroux certainly doesn't break 100 points without Couturier but Couts doesn't break 60 without Giroux.

 

[Sentinel]

I hope it's Anze.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

How'd Barkov do these playoffs?

Hows Barkov's MCL after practice?

 

[ziggyfan]

Kopitar!

 

[Fatty McLardy]

its gonna be between Kopitar and Couterier imo, Bergeron missed too many games.

 

[Sasso09]

He is arguing that couturier is a better overall player than Barkov. It’s a completely laughable take

It's not laughable at all....

It's extremely close. I give the edge to Barkov overall by the slimmest of margins.

Defensively, not close.

 

[Sasso09]

Sasso should have been a finalist, he's extremely defensive

Actually pretty funny

 

[Jray42]

let me help you a bit. this is hyperbole




as for your post, I don't really disagree with you. Go back through my history in this thread and others. I've never said a bad thing about Couturier. I have repeatedly said he is a good player.

As for your comment about voters, it's well established that players on small market teams struggle to win awards. Your guy got the nod this year, but that doesn't mean he was better, it just means he got more votes. There are plenty of stats that support Barkov as the better defensive player (and yes, there are stats that support Couturier as well).

If you want to argue Couturier is the better defensive player, go for it. I respectfully disagree but won't blame a flyers fan for wanting their guy. We already had a poll that Sasso guaranteed Couturier would win handily that showed people on HF prefer Barkov when it comes to just defense. (yes I readily admit that HF polls hold very little weight in arguments, but when someone guarantees something will happen and the opposite does, it probably shows that one side of the argument is a bit off base.

But yeah, when flyers fans are going to jump in and argue that only homer florida fans are going to take barkov over couturier without any qualifiers, yeah, I'm going to call that a laughable take. One player has been great defensively for his entire career and been an excellent overall player for 3 years, the other has been great defensively for his entire career but didn't have a noteworthy offensive game until this year. Couturier had a breakout year, but even then, couldn't put up more points than Barkov. Prior to that, Couturier hadn't broken 40 points. So to call the Panthers fans the homers ITT is a bit much.

I haven't looked at this thread in quite a while, but I can appreciate this post. Sorry some Flyers fans are using AINEC and laughing at anyone talking Barkov up, I mean it is pretty close. I'd give Couturier the defensive edge (Barkov isn't far) but when it comes to overall game, give me Barkov.

From what I remember before there are a few Florida posters as well (you know who you are, there's one in particular I'm thinking of) that make the same terrible statements about Couts not even being close to Barkov, so it goes both ways I guess.

 

[Sasso09]

I would have no problem with Kopitar or Bergeron. But Couturier up there is just wrong. He gets abused defensively and turns the puck over too often for my liking. Barkov is almost perfect defensively. I’ve seen him commit one turnover in the defensive zone in 5 years. He’s also always hounding and getting back before everyone. It’s a snub.

[mod]

Barkov had 69 give aways..... Couturier had 37. He damn near doubled him in turnovers. Why make these ridiculous statements without doing a simple Google search bro?

And as far as "abused defensively" no one in the league this year had better defensive stats, not Bergeron, no one.

 

[FinlandPanther]

[mod]

Barkov had 69 give aways..... Couturier had 37. He damn near doubled him in turnovers. Why make these ridiculous statements without doing a simple Google search bro?

And as far as "abused defensively" no one in the league this year had better defensive stats, not Bergeron, no one.

Because he’s the go to player. Man you really need to learn more hockey bro. I’m not going to respond to you anymore because I can’t deal with how ignorant you are. Yet he still got destroyed by Tavares and such.

 

[tytech]

Because he’s the go to player. Man you really need to learn more hockey bro. I’m not going to respond to you anymore because I can’t deal with how ignorant you are. Yet he still got destroyed by Tavares and such.

What are you talking about????
First, you say "Couts gets abused defensively and turns the puck over too often for my liking. Barkov is almost perfect defensively. I’ve seen him commit one turnover in the defensive zone in 5 years".
Then you get called out for it by someone simply telling you that "Barkov had 69 giveaways..... Couturier had 37".
So, you then say it's because Barkov's the "go to player". Really? That's the best you can do to defend your ridiculous original statement. lol. You then have the audacity to say that you can't deal with their ignorance.
Then to say someone needs to learn hockey but make reference to one play where Tavares and Couts went at it and Tavares got the puck to an open man in the slot. I mean, that was hockey. Couts played great defence there and Tavares played great offense. Anyone who knows hockey, wouldn't use that one example as a failure for Couts. That was a great battle. The problem wasn't Couts. The problem at the end was Gostisbehere losing his coverage.

This is one of the best examples of being owned and you did it all to yourself. Absolutely laughable. If I could code, I'd have a meme on your posts alone and it would go viral.

 

[StoneHands]

What are you talking about????
First, you say "Couts gets abused defensively and turns the puck over too often for my liking. Barkov is almost perfect defensively. I’ve seen him commit one turnover in the defensive zone in 5 years".
Then you get called out for it by someone simply telling you that "Barkov had 69 giveaways..... Couturier had 37".
So, you then say it's because Barkov's the "go to player". Really? That's the best you can do to defend your ridiculous original statement. lol. You then have the audacity to say that you can't deal with their ignorance.
Then to say someone needs to learn hockey but make reference to one play where Tavares and Couts went at it and Tavares got the puck to an open man in the slot. I mean, that was hockey. Couts played great defence there and Tavares played great offense. Anyone who knows hockey, wouldn't use that one example as a failure for Couts. That was a great battle. The problem wasn't Couts. The problem at the end was Gostisbehere losing his coverage.

This is one of the best examples of being owned and you did it all to yourself. Absolutely laughable. If I could code, I'd have a meme on your posts alone and it would go viral.

I don't get the obsession with that Tavares play. It was a 3 on 3 I believe and Couts kept Tavares pinned in the corner for like 10-15 seconds until he finally found a wide open guy in the slot. Blaming Couturier would be like blaming a cornerback for losing his man when the QB had 10 seconds to run around in the backfield waiting for someone to get open. It's actually sad that people think Couts played that poorly. Is the only decent play there stripping Tavares of the puck and going the other way with it? If Tavares spun out of that corner and tookthe puck to the net and scored I would have agreed it's on Couts but I don't know how you can be mad at a forward for keeping his man outside in a low danger area of the zone.

 

[Beezeral]

[mod]

Barkov had 69 give aways..... Couturier had 37. He damn near doubled him in turnovers. Why make these ridiculous statements without doing a simple Google search bro?

And as far as "abused defensively" no one in the league this year had better defensive stats, not Bergeron, no one.

Weren’t you the one who said that turnover and takeaway stats were flawed because each arena counts them differently? Or does that argument only hold weight when we are talking about how Barkov had way more takeaways than couturier?

 

[tytech]

I don't get the obsession with that Tavares play. It was a 3 on 3 I believe and Couts kept Tavares pinned in the corner for like 10-15 seconds until he finally found a wide open guy in the slot. Blaming Couturier would be like blaming a cornerback for losing his man when the QB had 10 seconds to run around in the backfield waiting for someone to get open. It's actually sad that people think Couts played that poorly. Is the only decent play there stripping Tavares of the puck and going the other way with it? If Tavares spun out of that corner and tookthe puck to the net and scored I would have agreed it's on Couts but I don't know how you can be mad at a forward for keeping his man outside in a low danger area of the zone.

You need to re-read what I wrote. Couts played well defensively is what I am saying.

 

[StoneHands]

You need to re-read what I wrote. Couts played well defensively is what I am saying.

I know. I was agreeing.

 

[tytech]

Weren’t you the one who said that turnover and takeaway stats were flawed because each arena counts them differently? Or does that argument only hold weight when we are talking about how Barkov had way more takeaways than couturier?

No, that wasn't me. Takeaways are just as good a measure for the pro side as giveaways is for the con side in my opinion. I was strictly laughing at how asinine Findlandpanther was being from one post to the other.

 

[tytech]

I know. I was agreeing.

Ahhh, you said "but I don't know how you can be mad at a forward for keeping his man outside in a low danger area of the zone. "
I get it now but it was put on me. I don't want to be internet police but maybe say "but I don't know how someone can be mad at a forward for keeping his man outside in a low danger area of the zone".

 

[Jray42]

Because he’s the go to player. Man you really need to learn more hockey bro. I’m not going to respond to you anymore because I can’t deal with how ignorant you are. Yet he still got destroyed by Tavares and such.

Not defending Sasso in any way, but you saying this is like the pot calling the kettle black

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think Brayden Point finds himself on this list at some point before his career is over. Great 2 way center.

 

[ZzZz]

2/3 of the nominees weren't playing against opponents top lines, and Kopitar was playing against top lines about half of the time. Couturier has deserved a nomination for a while, but they choose to give it to him when he is in an offensive role for the first time in his career. Get the media away from the voting please.

 

[blinds]

2/3 of the nominees weren't playing against opponents top lines, and Kopitar was playing against top lines about half of the time. Couturier has deserved a nomination for a while, but they choose to give it to him when he is in an offensive role for the first time in his career. Get the media away from the voting please.

Yet he had the highest defensive zone start rate among Flyers forwards at 43% OZS.