Salary Cap: Seabrook / Sharp

[Kelevra]

Hey Guys,

Non Chicago fan here. I have read a lot of rumours that Chicago will be looking to shed cap space in the summer with either of these guys. Just wanted to know your take on it and how true these rumours actually are. If there is any truth to them, what do you guys think would be a fair return for either of them?

Thanks

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[b1e9a8r5s]

It's not really a rumor, more a reality of the situation they will be in next year. I expect Sharp and Bickell to be moved, but Seabrook kept. As to what Sharp might cost? A 2nd and a prospect? Prospect and cheap 3rd line forward? I'm interested to see what they'll get for him given his struggles this year.

 

[Kelevra]

It's not really a rumor, more a reality of the situation they will be in next year. I expect Sharp and Bickell to be moved, but Seabrook kept. As to what Sharp might cost? A 2nd and a prospect? Prospect and cheap 3rd line forward? I'm interested to see what they'll get for him given his struggles this year.

What if Bickel can't be moved? He likely has negative value. Can you guys make the cap work with only moving sharp?

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

What if Bickel can't be moved? He likely has negative value. Can you guys make the cap work with only moving sharp?

Negative value?
Doubtful.
Did Bolland have negative value?

If Bickell steps up again in the playoffs he'll be coveted.

 

[Taze em]

Negative value?
Doubtful.
Did Bolland have negative value?

If Bickell steps up again in the playoffs he'll be coveted.

I can't believe I haven't thought of Bolland as a Bickell comp. that is perfect comparison for Bickell, IMO.

 

[JaegerDice]

At least one of them will be gone. Sharp will be in the off-season almost certainly.

As far as return, Blackhawks will likely be looking to restock some picks for this year's draft. So a 1st in the late 20s or a 2nd in the 10s. Roster player swaps probably wouldn't work with the cap space.

Seabrook is UFA in a year or so, I think they resign him. He's not the player he once was, but even if Hammer (our current #3 defensemen, who's actually our current 2nd best defensemen) officially assumes his spot on the top pair, he's good enough to anchor a strong 2nd pair. I think they'll move out pieces if necessary to keep him, even if that means guys like Shaw, or Kruger, who the like a lot.

What if Bickel can't be moved? He likely has negative value. Can you guys make the cap work with only moving sharp?

The Blackhawks got a 3rd round pick for Brandon Bollig. They'll get at least that for Bickell, likely more if he has another strong playoff run.

Worst case scenario, they ship him out for a 5th and 'future considerations' as a salary dump to a team that needs size, needs to hit the floor, etc.

 

[Bubba88]

No Hawks Player has negativ value. Not one. Last was Olesz/Montador.

Sharp is gone in the offseason. Seabrook stays for sure

 

[Nothingman*]

I still think Seabrook is an option to go if things happen like Sharp says he is not waiving his NMC. And Seabs will get a couple million raise on the open market if he hits it and Hawks will not be able to match that. Also, it depends on the cap, raises to players, etc. I don't want him to go but he just might have to in order to fit under the cap. And he would easily fetch the most value for the team compared to the others. So it is not out of the realm of possibility. And I do not want him gone just being realistic about what might have to happen.

 

[Taze em]

Sharp doesn't have a NMC

 

[Nothingman*]

Sharp has a NMC and modified NTC.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I still think Seabrook is an option to go if things happen like Sharp says he is not waiving his NMC. And Seabs will get a couple million raise on the open market if he hits it and Hawks will not be able to match that. Also, it depends on the cap, raises to players, etc. I don't want him to go but he just might have to in order to fit under the cap. And he would easily fetch the most value for the team compared to the others. So it is not out of the realm of possibility. And I do not want him gone just being realistic about what might have to happen.

I believe Sharp has to produce a list of 10 teams he will go to, or maybe it's 10 teams he won't go to, but he can't completely block a trade.

 

[Sarava]

I would imagine Sharp would wave for most places, especially after the crap he went through about a month ago. That said, his play has picked up quite a bit recently and hopefully it's restoring his trade value a bit with it.

 

[Nothingman*]

I would imagine Sharp would wave for most places, especially after the crap he went through about a month ago. That said, his play has picked up quite a bit recently and hopefully it's restoring his trade value a bit with it.

That is what I am thinking. And I am not blaming for it either.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I don't think either of these guys will be traded.

My money is on a combination of Bickell, Versteeg, Kruger, Rundblad, and potentially Crawford, but I doubt the latter.

If they can't trade Bickell, then Sharp comes into play. Or if the players don't use the escalator, then it's obvious Sharp is in play.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I can't believe Bolland has never been brought up as a Bickell comparison. It's an eerily similar situation

 

[hawksfan50]

I think a lot depends on whether BUFFALO gets McDavid...Hawks may pull off a Kane +Crawford +Sharp for McDavid and one of the other two Buffalo firsts in the late 20s and other later picks ...a real blockbuster..But I do not think the Hawks do that for EICHEL if Buffalo loses the lottery and drops to 2nd overall.. If the Hawks cannot pull that off or something big like that for McDavid and solve the 2C problem for the next15+ years (and the only team
who might do that is Buffalo because of the hometown Kane connection plus other playing Now assets ) then it is probably both Sharp and Seabrook going...
I do favor Seabrook going anyway because he really has slowed up in his skating and reaction times already...I do not think he earned his $5.9 million per this year and I would be loathe to raise that to keep him extended after next year anyway...IF and I said If he has as high a trade value of at least a first and a second ...you get that NOW ..not after a further decline on his play next year where he might fall off a cliff ...He could of course drop weight this summer and go on a conditioning program to get speed and agility back ...but if he does not...what does he bring...not a top goal scoring dman..not great on the PP. ..and slower than he ever was and doing nothing to rectify it..So too many red flags to keep him and cost more on your cap ...Best if Hawks win another Cup this year because values increase for that and he would be a 3 time winner...but the eyeball test of his game is that he is not worth a cap cost of nearly $6 mil the way he played this year and nothing says he will get back his speed and agility (which was never great to begin with) to the degree he had it in his younger NHL days...So if he has value ...get value back now before it dissipates further as his effectiveness declines further ..

As to Sharp...he too fell off a cliff this year..At 34 starting next season he too could be a diminishing production asset ...Still some teams looking for a vet scorer with at least 2 Cups who may have 3-4 years of good production remaining in him ....might bet he has a bounce-back year next season especially with a change of scenery.. I think he could still bring back a first rounder in the late teens to late 20s from the right trading partner if he fits their situation ...but his salary and cap hit also limits the options for trade partners seeking such a player...
.Obviously Buffalo will look to re-stock and get over the floor even if they keep McDavid or EICHEL...Arizona has to spend to ensure they get over the floor ...so you have clubs who could take on such cap ...but they have to see such assets we trade to them as helping them and not just doing us a cap relief favor. ...else we do not get as much back...The best scenario would be Hawks win the Cup again and the values of Sharp Seabrook and Crawford all rise ...OR that one big hockey deal where the old Kane to Buffalo dream (for both) is realized..Not that I want to deal Kane ...but at least for 3 years we would get a cheap McDavid ..But if he is the generational franchise Centre all think he is then you do it..Easier to get a good skilled winger than a top Centre. BUFFALO could think that way also but still the hometown hero who was leading the NHL in scoring when he got injured is something for Buffalo to chew on in some bigger kind of package deal.

 

[Nothingman*]

I don't think either of these guys will be traded.

My money is on a combination of Bickell, Versteeg, Kruger, Rundblad, and potentially Crawford, but I doubt the latter.

If they can't trade Bickell, then Sharp comes into play. Or if the players don't use the escalator, then it's obvious Sharp is in play.

Rundblad is a wash because his replacement will make as much. Kruger is a tiny amount. Versteeg gains 1MM and Bickell 4MM. So in total you get basically the same as Sharp. Which would be nice to get rid of someday weight and bring in some fresh legs and youth to retool. Sharp would be easier singly to move and perhaps others are moved as well.

Also remember Oduya walks and Rozy does too which gains us $3MM+ or so.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Rundblad is a wash because his replacement will make as much. Kruger is a tiny amount. Versteeg gains 1MM and Bickell 4MM. So in total you get basically the same as Sharp. Which would be nice to get rid of someday weight and bring in some fresh legs and youth to retool. Sharp would be easier singly to move and perhaps others are moved as well.

Also remember Oduya walks and Rozy does too which gains us $3MM+ or so.

Kruger could command around 3mil, or at least 2.5mil. Replace him with Danault and that's a 1.75-2.25mil savings. Versteeg can be replaced by a 900k contract, that's 1.3mil. And Bickell hopefully saves about 3mil.

Saad - Toews - Hossa
Sharp - Teravainen - Kane
VET - Shaw - McNeill
Nordstrom - Danault - VET
Hartman/or/VET

Seabrook Keith
Hjalmarsson TVR
VET Paliotta/Johns

Crawford
Darling

-sign VETs for a total of 4-5mil between the 3 or 4 of them.
sign Saad for 4.5

Your just under a salary cap of 71.5mil.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I don't think either of these guys will be traded.

My money is on a combination of Bickell, Versteeg, Kruger, Rundblad, and potentially Crawford, but I doubt the latter.

If they can't trade Bickell, then Sharp comes into play. Or if the players don't use the escalator, then it's obvious Sharp is in play.

Kruger isn't a savings. He doesn't have a contract for next year. Runblad wouldn't be a savings either. He has a cap hit .573 and anyone replacing him will probably make more than him (which is why I don't think he goes anywhere). So Bickell is 4 mil, Versteeg is 2.2 and the Hawks are around 64 mil (I miss capgeek). That's without any Saad/Kruger extensions. I think Saad gets 4-5.5 mil a year depending on the years. So probably 4 million of Bickell/Versteeg savings would go to Saad's raise and then you are still right up against it and would fill up 8-10 roster spots with kids. I think the Hawks would much rather be able to bring in a few cheap vets than completely fill out the bottom half of their roster with rookies. So that means another big contract has to go and I think Sharp is much more likely to go than Seabrook, Crawford. At this point, I'd be surprised if Sharp isn't moved.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

No way they trade Seabrook IMO. Unless they're getting a top 4 D back and something else that would make trading him worth it.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Kruger could command around 3mil, or at least 2.5mil. Replace him with Danault and that's a 1.75-2.25mil savings. Versteeg can be replaced by a 900k contract, that's 1.3mil. And Bickell hopefully saves about 3mil.

Saad - Toews - Hossa
Sharp - Teravainen - Kane
VET - Shaw - McNeill
Nordstrom - Danault - VET
Hartman/or/VET

Seabrook Keith
Hjalmarsson TVR
VET Paliotta/Johns

Crawford
Darling

-sign VETs for a total of 4-5mil between the 3 or 4 of them.
sign Saad for 4.5

Your just under a salary cap of 71.5mil.

What are you paying Saad in this scenario?

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Rundblad is a wash because his replacement will make as much. Kruger is a tiny amount. Versteeg gains 1MM and Bickell 4MM. So in total you get basically the same as Sharp. Which would be nice to get rid of someday weight and bring in some fresh legs and youth to retool. Sharp would be easier singly to move and perhaps others are moved as well.

Also remember Oduya walks and Rozy does too which gains us $3MM+ or so.

You are looking at it wrong. Whatever the Hawks current cap number (64? 66?) is doesn't include Rosy and Oduya or anyone else who isn't under contract. So that "savings" is already included in the current number. The Hawks are 7-10 mil under the cap with 8-10 open roster spaces. 4-6 million will go to Saad and then you are left with about 8 roster spots to fill with maybe 5 million.

 

[Nothingman*]

Kruger is making 1.3 this year not 2.6 and is an RFA with not a lot of bargaining position. He will probably be traded and we save 400k, not what is being stated above.

Here is what we have signed for next year:

Jonathan Toews C 26 7 $10,500,000 2023
Patrick Kane RW 26 7 $10,500,000 2023
Duncan Keith D 31 9 $5,538,462 2023
Marian Hossa RW 36 16 $5,275,000 2021
Corey Crawford G 30 7 $6,000,000 2020
Patrick Sharp LW 33 11 $5,900,000 2017
Brent Seabrook D 29 9 $5,800,000 2016
Niklas Hjalmarsson D 27 $4,100,000 2019
Kris Versteeg LW 28 7 $2,200,000 2016
Bryan Bickell LW 29 7 $4,000,000 2017
Andrew Shaw C 23 3 $2,000,000 2016
Teuvo Teravainen C 20 $925,000 2017
Brandon Saad LW 22 3 RFA 2015
Joakim Nordstrom C 23 RFA 2015
Marcus Kruger RFA
Trevor Van Riemsdyk D 23 $925,000 2016
David Rundblad D 24 3 $785,000 2015
Scott Darling G 26 $587,500 2017


That is 65MM without trading anyone and 7 spots to fill.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

What if Bickel can't be moved? He likely has negative value. Can you guys make the cap work with only moving sharp?

He will be moved for sure... Even if the Hawks have to take Chris Pronger or 2 cap dumps that can be assigned to the AHL Bickell will be gone.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Kruger is making 1.3 this year not 2.6 and is an RFA with not a lot of bargaining position. He will probably be traded and we save 400k, not what is being stated above.

Here is what we have signed for next year:

Jonathan Toews C 26 7 $10,500,000 2023
Patrick Kane RW 26 7 $10,500,000 2023
Duncan Keith D 31 9 $5,538,462 2023
Marian Hossa RW 36 16 $5,275,000 2021
Corey Crawford G 30 7 $6,000,000 2020
Patrick Sharp LW 33 11 $5,900,000 2017
Brent Seabrook D 29 9 $5,800,000 2016
Niklas Hjalmarsson D 27 $4,100,000 2019
Kris Versteeg LW 28 7 $2,200,000 2016
Bryan Bickell LW 29 7 $4,000,000 2017
Andrew Shaw C 23 3 $2,000,000 2016
Teuvo Teravainen C 20 $925,000 2017
Brandon Saad LW 22 3 RFA 2015
Joakim Nordstrom C 23 RFA 2015
Marcus Kruger RFA
Trevor Van Riemsdyk D 23 $925,000 2016
David Rundblad D 24 3 $785,000 2015
Scott Darling G 26 $587,500 2017


That is 65MM without trading anyone and 7 spots to fill.

Bickell and Sharp traded is 55M with 17 left to fill 7 spots and that is more than enough to resign Saad, Nordstrom, Kruger and Oduya, that will be 12 with 5 left to fill 3 roster spots. I'm sure the Hawks will let the kids battle for those roles, not to mention will sign some vet willing to take a discount to play here..