Value of: Scott Laughton rental

[Tripod]

I don't think re-signing Laughton is completely out of the realm of possibility. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they did. If you are referencing JT Compher, he does ZERO for the Flyers.

Yes,,,that's who I was referencing.

If we have Jake or JVR taken in the ED AND made another trade to consolidate assets, them I could see them re-signing him.

It's just right now, we have 10 guys who should be in the top p next year so adding Laughton at 3.5 million doesn't make sense. But we could see a much different roster next year so who knows.

But yeah, JTC offers the Flyers nothing.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I can’t see how Laughton does NOT get a 1st or blue chip prospect tbh. He’s Coleman part 2 and every GM has basically come out and said they want a Coleman

Coleman wasn't a rental

 

[Gurglesons]

Coleman wasn't a rental

Which is why I said a 1st or a blue chip prospect, considering Coleman got both.

 

[BKarchitect]

Coleman wasn't a rental

Exactly. Not sure why he and Goodrow keep being brought up as benchmarks. Similar players perhaps but Tampa got an extra year of both Coleman and Goodrow for a combined $2.75 million. The extra years at a dirt cheap cost for such effective role players played an enormous part in the value that was obtained via a trade, especially as it pertains to Cup competing teams who are up against the cap in a flat cap world. Tampa paid for the security of having two elite third liners for another year each at under 3 million combined.

 

[BKarchitect]

Which is why I said a 1st or a blue chip prospect, considering Coleman got both.

IMO Laughton is not as good as Coleman. Coleman is elite defensively and a much greater scoring threat with his wheels.

 

[Gurglesons]

IMO Laughton is not as good as Coleman. Coleman is elite defensively and a much greater scoring threat with his wheels.

Which is why he isn't returning the bounty that Coleman did.

He's still the archetype of Coleman / Goodrow that every GM is talking about wanting to add. C/W that plays physically and can put up points. Not to mention he's cheap as hell and has some size.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Which is why I said a 1st or a blue chip prospect, considering Coleman got both.

I don't think he gets either, MAYBE a conditional 1st

 

[BKarchitect]

Which is why he isn't returning the bounty that Coleman did.

He's still the archetype of Coleman / Goodrow that every GM is talking about wanting to add. C/W that plays physically and can put up points. Not to mention he's cheap as hell and has some size.

Not untrue but the contract thing is huge in this day, even more so than it was last year when Tampa made those deals. I’d also argue $2.3 million is a fine deal money wise but not cheap as hell especially compared to the aforementioned deals and Laughton will undoubtedly want more on his next contract.

If Coleman got a late first and a B+/A- prospect then you ding Laughton a bit for not being quite as good and then more for the contract and you end up with a 2nd and solid but not great prospect - that feels right.

You could be totally right of course at the end of the day and I agree he’s a nice add for a lot of teams but to me that’s a reasonable expectation.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not untrue but the contract thing is huge in this day, even more so than it was last year when Tampa made those deals.

If Coleman got a late first and a B+/A- prospect then you ding Laughton a bit for not being quite as good and then more for the contract and you end up with a 2nd and solid but not great prospect - that feels right.

You could be totally right of course at the end of the day but to me that’s a reasonable expectation.

I think that the thing with contracts is him being a UFA may add to his value given the ED. You sell him on the market and then you can sign him without protecting him..

 

[Tripod]

Again...let's hope Elliott F is right:

“There are a lot of teams out there, if you told them that Scott Laughton was available for a playoff run, they’re throwing themselves at a guy like him.”

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Start with marner retained and then you’re talking with coots

this is sarcasm correct?

I think Marner is the better player, but only in terms of points. Couts is far better defensively than any center that Toronto has. Plus, he is the line driver for whatever line he is on. Marner plays with Matthews. Couts doesn't play with another elite player/goal scorer of that caliber. Then there's salary to consider.

Absolutely no way the Flyers would entertain Marner at the expense of Couturier. Defensively, it's a step back. Offensively, it's a step up. But he wouldn't be as productive with Kevin Hayes as out 1C. Another reason not to consider it, Kevin Hayes would become our 1C. Plus, Couturier makes 4.75 million to 10.9 million for Marner. Even though we are going to need to pay Couts, it isn't going to be anywhere near 10 million.

Wow Marner is literally the engine that drives any line he plays on. Hayes would have his best season if he played with Marner.

So far above? I think Marner is a great player, but he’s not more valuable than couturier. The irony is a team who can’t get out of the first round bc they keep losing to a team with a selke god still think flash and lights is more valuable. I’d much rather the flyers go in on Eichel and have Couts as well then sell of Couts as that would be a cup winning team.

Plus Marner makes far more than Couts does now and may make more than Couts after this contract still.

There are two centers I can think of that I would trade Couts for. No wingers that’s for sure.

cmon now, Marner is so much better than any sane GM would make that trade instantly

 

[BKarchitect]

It will be curious to see how the market plays out for rentals like Laughton and Kulikov who bring things lots of competitive teams need but are short term solutions with a flat cap and expansion draft coming up. I really have no idea and I think it’s going to be a really interesting deadline. Nothing would shock me.

 

[Tripod]

I think that the thing with contracts is him being a UFA may add to his value given the ED. You sell him on the market and then you can sign him without protecting him..

And we know the Flyers can retain 50%...so it could be 1.15 million. Every team would fit that in for their playoff run.

2nd line production...but doesn't "need" to play in the top 6
C or winger
Pker
hits, good skater, plays with intensity
1.15 million
don't have to protect him for ED

Lots of positives

 

[Gatorbait19]

I know I have said this before, but JTC just has no place on the Flyers.

Giroux Couts Konecny
JVR Hayes Voracek
Lindblom Patrick Farabee

....then have Frost in waiting next year if we lose a F in the ED. Just no top 9 spot for JTC. It's the same reason why despite Laughton's numbers and only being 26 in his prime, we just don't have a spot for him at 3+ million next year.

Definitely agree, but I don’t think the Avs could make it work without someone taking JTC. It’s also why I’d be willing to include both the 1st and Timmins, which alone would be an overpayment for 40 games of Laughton before he walks this summer.

Maybe we could find a 3rd team to take JTC (CHI, DET, etc), which is where I think that extra pick from PHI’s side would be needed.

 

[BKarchitect]

And we know the Flyers can retain 50%...so it could be 1.15 million. Every team would fit that in for their playoff run.

2nd line production...but doesn't "need" to play in the top 6
C or winger
Pker
hits, good skater, plays with intensity
1.15 million
don't have to protect him for ED

Lots of positives

Still think “second liner” when you look past pure point totals and start looking at possession, shot generation and PDO is being awfully generous. His PDO the last two years is 104.1 and 103.7. He shot over 17% last year. He’s not unskilled so I’m not saying he’s incapable of short stretches of elevated play but he’s not a second liner by most extended metrics.

Better as a winger than a center. Fine at face offs but definitely not a strength.

Good forechecker, PKer, defensively but not elite.

None of this is to take away that he’s a solid versatile player who will be sought after. But I mean you can spin things a little on the optimistic side or on the “I’m not paying you a first or blue chip prospect” side.

 

[Gurglesons]

Still think “second liner” when you look past pure point totals and start looking at possession, shot generation and PDO is being awfully generous. His PDO the last two years is 104.1 and 103.7. He shot over 17% last year.

Better as a winger than a center. Fine at face offs but definitely not a strength.

Good forechecker, PKer, defensively but not elite.

None of this is to take away that he’s a solid versatile player who will be sought after. But I mean you can spin things a little on the optimistic side or on the “I’m not paying you a first or blue chip prospect” side.

I think you could argue the same thing about Coleman being a 2nd liner too.

 

[BKarchitect]

I think you could argue the same thing about Coleman being a 2nd liner too.

Sure, Coleman is not a great playmaker and generates offense with speed and enough hands to bury some goals. But the difference for me is I see Coleman as an elite defensive player and PKer whereas I see Laughton as simply good. Just my opinion.

 

[Tripod]

Still think “second liner” when you look past pure point totals and start looking at possession, shot generation and PDO is being awfully generous. His PDO the last two years is 104.1 and 103.7. He shot over 17% last year.

Better as a winger than a center. Fine at face offs but definitely not a strength.

Good forechecker, PKer, defensively but not elite.

None of this is to take away that he’s a solid versatile player who will be sought after. But I mean you can spin things a little on the optimistic side or on the “I’m not paying you a first or blue chip prospect” side.

as Appleyard posted earlier, Laughton has produced as a 2nd liner at ES the past 247 games. So we don't need to go to smaller sample sizes which also show this.

I have said I expect a 2nd+....with that + being the determining factor on who gets him. But I also would not rule out a 1st on a team that thinks they could try an sign him and be fine with a 3-3.5 million dollar deal in their middle 6.

 

[BKarchitect]

as Appleyard posted earlier, Laughton has produced as a 2nd liner at ES the past 247 games. So we don't need to go to smaller sample sizes which also show this.

I have said I expect a 2nd+....with that + being the determining factor on who gets him. But I also would not rule out a 1st on a team that thinks they could try an sign him and be fine with a 3-3.5 million dollar deal in their middle 6.

Fair enough...I like the player but not enough to give up a 1st or a 2nd and really good prospect. I hope my team stays out of a bidding war if that's what it ends up taking...maybe if he had another year @ $2.3 million and there was no expansion draft coming up.

But I'm just some guy posting on the internet...you could very well be right about what it's going to take.

 

[Blaine8797]

this is sarcasm correct?

Wow Marner is literally the engine that drives any line he plays on. Hayes would have his best season if he played with Marner.


cmon now, Marner is so much better than any sane GM would make that trade instantly

You’ve got a case of homeritis my friend

 

[Tripod]

Fair enough...I like the player but not enough to give up a 1st or a 2nd and really good prospect. I hope my team stays out of a bidding war if that's what it ends up taking...maybe if he had another year @ $2.3 million and there was no expansion draft coming up.

But I'm just some guy posting on the internet...you could very well be right about what it's going to take.

Well like I also said...Elliott Friedman is stating it too.

hope he is right

 

[Mal Reynolds]

this is sarcasm correct?

Wow Marner is literally the engine that drives any line he plays on. Hayes would have his best season if he played with Marner.


cmon now, Marner is so much better than any sane GM would make that trade instantly

Make no mistake, Marner is great, but Couturier is one of the best two way centers in the game ~ elite defensively and damn good offensively. He also plays the more valuable position. The only real downside I see is his sweetheart contract (another reason he's so blooming valuable) is nearing its end. I reckon he'd be one of the last Flyers players to move, and they're well within their rights to ask for Marner in return.

(I understand you balking at that price though... I just don't think you're right to act like it's so wildly lopsided in favor of the Flyers)

 

[Gurglesons]

Make no mistake, Marner is great, but Couturier is one of the best two way centers in the game ~ elite defensively and damn good offensively. He also plays the more valuable position. The only real downside I see is his sweetheart contract (another reason he's so blooming valuable) is nearing its end. I reckon he'd be one of the last Flyers players to move, and they're well within their rights to ask for Marner in return.

(I understand you balking at that price though... I just don't think you're right to act like it's so wildly lopsided in favor of the Flyers)

Marner is arguably the best offensive winger in the game and is a very good defensive player.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

Marner is arguably the best offensive winger in the game and is a very good defensive player.

No real argument there.... I'm just trying to emphasize how valuable Couturier is

 

[Gurglesons]

No real argument there.... I'm just trying to emphasize how valuable Couturier is

I didn't even follow the trade discussion. Is someone saying that they want to do Couts for Marner?