Confirmed with Link: Sami Vatanen signs with Devils 1yr 2m

[Desert Devil]

Idk why but I have an affinity for Finns. Especially goalies and the Kipper catch. The more the merrier!

 

[glenwo2]

I won't stand for any Colin White slander.

What if you sat down instead?

Anyway, sorry to say but @Bleedred is right about Colin.

He was good for what he was back then but after the lockout, no so much.

 

[Bleedred]

Idk why but I have an affinity for Finns. Especially goalies and the Kipper catch. The more the merrier!

They have sweet accents.

 

[Bleedred]

What if you sat down instead?

Anyway, sorry to say but @Bleedred is right about Colin.

He was good for what he was back then but after the lockout, no so much.

This is because White’s TOI increased after the lockout. Actually, in 03-04, which was the year Stevens got injured halfway into the season and never returned again. He only had one season with 20 minutes of ice time before that and his minutes went up to almost 22 a night in 05-06 and almost 22.5 in 06-07.

They went down in 07-08, I’m guessing probably because of the eye injury and he was only at 19 in 08-09, which I remember as being a pretty decent season for him. They went back up above 20 in 09-10 and he was brutal that year. In 10-11 they went down, but he was completely cooked and he was a replacement level defenseman by then. Once his minutes went up later in the 03-04 he looked bad and was often the subject of internet ridicule and critique during the free fall later in that season.

He didn’t even play 15 a night with the Sharks in 11-12 and was an extreme liability by then and a meme over on their forum.


He was a solid bottom pairing guy, but he only cut it as a 20 minute defender (especially after Niedermayer left because that was his partner in his early years) because Marty was the GOAT.

In fact, Marty made a few of the mainstays from the old guard still look like “Good shutdown players” in the post-lockout years.


Pandolfo was no good at shutting guys down by about 2006-2007 and was pretty much a complete liability after that. Madden was still a good player by 07-08, but he was no longer elite or even all that good defensively, but both guys were still riding on those reputations until their exits. Their days as “Good shutdown forwards” were probably up by the Julien season. Maybe even the first year after the lockout.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Say what you want about Vats but there hasn’t been a Devils defenseman in the last decade who had a more dominant last half to a season than what Vats had in 2017-2018. He was one of the 3 reasons why we made the playoffs along with Hall and Kinkaid. People really don’t realize how damn good he was in that stretch. He was a treat to watch.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I won't turn this Sami thread into a Colin White thread, but just because he was a defenseman that was more from a by-gone era doesn't mean he wasn't a solid, steady presence for us for a decade even with an eye injury. He didn't need to be above the middle pairing and that was fine. Let's be real, we got lucky with the defense we iced for the latter half of that decade with Martin being our #1, Oduya being our #2 and Mottau being a mid pairing defender for his time here. No more Colin White slander, he's the man!

Say what you want about Vats but there hasn’t been a Devils defenseman in the last decade who had a more dominant last half to a season than what Vats had in 2017-2018. He was one of the 3 reasons why we made the playoffs along with Hall and Kinkaid. People really don’t realize how damn good he was in that stretch. He was a treat to watch.

It still pisses me off that he got concussed in Game 4 by Kucherov. Who knows how that game goes if he stays in. He was a difference maker for us down the stretch and in that series for sure.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Colin White was at his best when he was a heavily sheltered rookie/bottom pair guy who played like a psychopath and murdered everything that moved.

He was never anything more than a physical bottom pair character guy and playing him in anything above that role lead to predictable consequences.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Terrific signing.

If the Devils surprise and compete for a playoff spot, Vatanen should be a big reason why. If the Devils have a tough go and are in the lottery? Vatanen should get the Devils a pick at the deadline in the 3rd or 4th round. At $2 million, this is a win/win, all the way.

 

[Guttersniped]

One thing about the Subban cap hit, if your remember Cordell had reported that the Devils had a $75 mil internal cap. If so it is possible they could have or in the future have to pass on something due to his cap hit. I have no info and I know some posters do not like Cordell, but any player taking up 11% of cap is something an organization cares about.

IMO it is not all that important if the Devils protect Subban or Butcher. I doubt Seattle takes either and I believe 21-22 will be the last for both as Devils.

Cordell “reported”.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Cordell “reported”.

We playing the word game tonight?

 

[Guttersniped]

We playing the word game tonight?

I don’t disagree with your points about the players, I just don’t think you need Cordell’s guesswork to buttress your point. The value of those two will depend a lot on the kind of season they have. They aren’t going anywhere anytime soon as much as some want to immediately jettison Butcher.

Some are also concerned that there’s a logjam at defense involving players who haven’t played any pro hockey yet. Let’s wait until that’s actually a problem with pro level players. We have a bunch a kids and vets that we need for depth. It’s actually a comforting amount of depth.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Colin White was one of the worst skaters we’ve ever seen, yet somehow he played like 12 years in the NHL.

He couldn’t do shit with the puck and would regularly lose his man, but convinced everyone he was such a good defensive player because he blocked shots, got glued in his D-zone all night and never scored any points.

Colin White doesn't deserve the hate. He was a great 6th defenseman. He learned how to use his body, he learned how to use his stick, he learned how to position his body so he didn't get walked every time and he learned how to clear the front of the net of rebounds. These are three things that even our 'best' defensemen like Severson, Subban, and certainly Vatanen have no clue how to do.

The problem is that he ended up playing #1 minutes because four of our great Dmen were gone. Same thing with Andy Greene. He's a great 2nd pairing defenseman, but he ended up #1 LHD on terrible teams.

During his time as a defensemen, the idea was to keep the puck out of the net - Not necessarily put up 80points - and for that, he was fine right up until the last 3 or 4 years of his career when he had no business being on the ice, and lobbing that damn puck up ice off of the boards every play was disgusting.

 

[Bleedred]

Colin White doesn't deserve the hate. He was a great 6th defenseman. He learned how to use his body, he learned how to use his stick, he learned how to position his body so he didn't get walked every time and he learned how to clear the front of the net of rebounds. These are three things that even our 'best' defensemen like Severson, Subban, and certainly Vatanen have no clue how to do.

The problem is that he ended up playing #1 minutes because four of our great Dmen were gone. Same thing with Andy Greene. He's a great 2nd pairing defenseman, but he ended up #1 LHD on terrible teams.

During his time as a defensemen, the idea was to keep the puck out of the net - Not necessarily put up 80points - and for that, he was fine right up until the last 3 or 4 years of his career when he had no business being on the ice, and lobbing that damn puck up ice off of the boards every play was disgusting.

Funny enough that you seem to be making the same points as me in the second sentence of your post, as well as the last sentence of your post.

I said he wasn’t a bad bottom pairing defenseman. And I also said the last several years of his career (I’m gonna say from about 09-12) he just wasn’t an NHL caliber player anymore. He might have been able to cut it as a very sheltered guy in those years (not in 2011-2012 though, he was a bottom pairing guy then and just completely disastrous), but he really had not even fumes left in the tank by the time he played his last game here.

 

[broman]

FWIW, Vatanen still stuck in Finland waiting for the visa to come through, with no clue of when he will be cleared to go. Joys of starting over after multi-year employment. All in Finnish on national broadcaster Yle’s site:
Karanteeni- ja viisumiongelmat pitävät suomalaispelaajia kaukalon ulkopuolella NHL:ssä – Sami Vatanen epätietoisena oman kautensa alkamisesta: "Ei mitään hajua"

 

[billingtons ghost]

Funny enough that you seem to be making the same points as me in the second sentence of your post, as well as the last sentence of your post.

I said he wasn’t a bad bottom pairing defenseman. And I also said the last several years of his career (I’m gonna say from about 09-12) he just wasn’t an NHL caliber player anymore. He might have been able to cut it as a very sheltered guy in those years (not in 2011-2012 though, he was a bottom pairing guy then and just completely disastrous), but he really had not even fumes left in the tank by the time he played his last game here.

It's not funny - we're pretty close in agreement when it comes to the end of his career - and I never think your opinions are too far off the mark - just a little harsh when it comes to looking at the whole picture over the long haul and to players doing everything they are capable of doing... but who's abilities are limited.

It's kindof a ceiling versus floor thing. I tend to root for the guys with low-ceilings that are at 100% effort all of the time as opposed to the guys who have high ceilings but are at 20%.... even if that 50%> the other guys 100%. I'd prefer 100% of a plug over 20% of a superstar.

It's an expectation thing.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

He's not really 2 way guy. He's not all that good defensively

He's an above average two way defenseman with a very good outlet pass and good shot from point....His biggest problem is he gets hurt and has suffered multiple concussions.

 

[Hisch13r]

He's an above average two way defenseman with a very good outlet pass and good shot from point....His biggest problem is he gets hurt and has suffered multiple concussions.

He's average. He's pretty good offensively and pretty bad defensively. He's a decent middle pair guy

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I read today on a fantrax update on Vatanen that The emergence of Ty Smith could make it tough for Vatanen to secure playing time and could be a healthy scratch from time to time.
I thought Vatanen was a top 4 dman. and a RD while Smith is a LD. how would Smith get in his way.
Wouldn't Vatanen slot in over Tennyson and Butcher?

 

[britdevil]

I read today on a fantrax update on Vatanen that The emergence of Ty Smith could make it tough for Vatanen to secure playing time and could be a healthy scratch from time to time.
I thought Vatanen was a top 4 dman. and a RD while Smith is a LD. how would Smith get in his way.
Wouldn't Vatanen slot in over Tennyson and Butcher?

Vatanen comes in for Tennyson.

Murray - Subban
Kulikov - Severson
Smith - Vatanen

 

[JimEIV]

It's just weird to harp on any player being bad at the end of their career...Uhm, that is how it works or it wouldn't have been the end of their career.

 

[glenwo2]

Vats is better than Butcher and Tennyson combined.

The notion that he would be healthy scratched is absurd.

EDIT : An argument could be made that he's better than PK, too.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Vats is better than Butcher and Tennyson combined.

The notion that he would be healthy scratched is absurd.

EDIT : An argument could be made that he's better than PK, too.

An argument? Vats is better than PK. Vats was our most steady defender since he got here, maybe sans Greene. He's definitely better than PK at this point and I feel like he's being undersold right now.

 

[glenwo2]

An argument? Vats is better than PK. Vats was our most steady defender since he got here, maybe sans Greene. He's definitely better than PK at this point and I feel like he's being undersold right now.

I'm not underselling Vats.

I'm just thinking to myself "Hmm...if I said that Vats was better than Subban, will I get some finger-wagging by certain posters here? I don't have time for that crap so I'll just use the "argument" thing, then slowly step away"

EDIT : case in point (see below post)

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

An argument? Vats is better than PK. Vats was our most steady defender since he got here, maybe sans Greene. He's definitely better than PK at this point and I feel like he's being undersold right now.

I think Sami is very overrated. He’s an average player. I like him and he’s an enormous upgrade over Tennyson, but he isn’t much better than PK.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

He's 29. Let's slow down on the end-of-career stuff. Also, unlike many other NHLers, he actually wants to play in New Jersey. I thought he was very solid both defensively and offensively in 17/18.