Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Tell me where it hurts you and I'll tell you who to call

[Ryder71]

You know Bonino is as good or better than half of that list, right? I don't get how you'd be happy with Lindberg but not Cullen.

2016 version was yes, 2017? Maybe Eakin and Lindberg.

 

[Ogrezilla]

2016 version was yes, 2017? Maybe Eakin and Lindberg.

Maybe Eakin and Lindberg? Is Lindberg even better than Sheahan?

And again, what are you comfortable giving up for the higher end guys?

 

[Ryder71]

Maybe Eakin and Lindberg? Is Lindberg even better than Sheahan?

And again, what are you comfortable giving up for these guys?

I think Lindberg would do well here. Particulary if Kessel was the playmaker on his line. When Shultz gets healthy I think Cole for Lindberg plus one of the Vegas depth defenders is a fair deal. Although and again I'd prefer we aim higher.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think Lindberg would do well here. Particulary if Kessel was the playmaker on his line. When Shultz gets healthy I think Cole for Lindberg plus one of the Vegas depth defenders is a fair deal. Although and again I'd prefer we aim higher.

That's just very strange to me right after saying you want to aim higher. I really think Lindberg could end up being our 4C in that scenario. And a worse 4C than Cullen would be.

Either way, I don't see adding Cullen being prohibitive to any of the guys you'd be looking to add. That's really my whole point.

 

[Ryder71]

That's just very strange to me right after saying you want to aim higher. I really think Lindberg could end up being our 4C in that scenario. And a worse 4C than Cullen would be.

Either way, I don't see adding Cullen being prohibitive to any of the guys you'd be looking to add. That's really my whole point.

I just see Cullen as a ''comfortable'' add, and my fear is that JR may not feel he needs to add a 3c. And to my point about Lindberg, he'd be the last of that group I'd want. But I'd prefer him over Cullen, he's younger and cost controlled for another year beyond this year. And he has shown flashes of good goal scoring ability. I think Kessel would just help him add even more goals and at a faster pace.

TBH I think we'll end up with Eakin, but we'll see. He's good in most areas but I wish he had a bit better offensive acumen.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I just see Cullen as a ''comfortable'' add, and my fear is that JR may not feel he needs to add a 3c. And to my point about Lindberg, he'd be the last of that group I'd want. But I'd prefer him over Cullen, he's younger and cost controlled for another year beyond this year. And he has shown flashes of good goal scoring ability. I think Kessel would just help him add even more goals and at a faster pace.

TBH I think we'll end up with Eakin, but we'll see. He's good in most areas but I wish he had a bit better offensive acumen.

I wouldn't want to add anyone where we are relying on Kessel to be why they provide offense. Kessel on Geno's wing should be plan A. And I certainly wouldn't want it to be for their potential goal scoring with Kessel as their playmaker.

 

[Riptide]

And if we can't do better than Cullen at this point (or before the deadline) we're not winning anyhow. There are plenty of other more viable options and even more in coming weeks.

Maybe, maybe not. But if it's an option, we'd be stupid not to do it.

Don't you think we should aim higher and for a long term solution at 3c? If we go that route then we wouldn't need to entertain the notion of bringing Cullen back.

Nothing precludes us from doing both. Cullen takes up minimal cap space and won't cost much to acquire. But if we have an injury I'd much rather have Cullen and Sheahan here to fill in, then have to use Rowney and Sheahan - and this is coming from someone who really likes how Sheahan has played.

As for the part about him having "made his choice" or whatever, he wanted to play in Minny for family reasons, as that's where his kids will be in school full time and all that jazz. I don't like it, but I get it. But if things are not going all that well in St Paul, it's not like he has to stick it out - it's a 2 hr flight from Minny to PIT. Wait until closer to the TD so Minny can see where they're at and then see if getting him is an option. At that point if it is, pull the trigger and let him come back for one final run. Best case scenario he'd be here for 3.5 months. That's hardly the end of the world for a family man at the end of his career. I get why he made the decision he did, but 3.5 months is not the same as a full season - not even close. And the fans, players, coaches and management would all welcome him back with open arms - and rightly so.

 

[Ryder71]

I wouldn't want to add anyone where we are relying on Kessel to be why they provide offense. Kessel on Geno's wing should be plan A.

Not if you want three scoring lines. I think in order to compete with teams that have an abundance of depth you can't be so top heavy. For example, say somehow we got Bozak. Not likely but you never know.

And these are your top three lines

Jake-Geno-Rust

Sheary-Sid-Horny

Hagelin-Bozak-Phil

To me that's a very deep and talented top nine. That's sort of what I'm envisioning as the blue print. Something of that ilk.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Not if you want three scoring lines. I think in order to compete with teams that have an abundance of depth you can't be so top heavy. For example, say somehow we got Bozak. Not likely but you never know.

And these are your top three lines

Jake-Geno-Rust

Sheary-Sid-Horny

Hagelin-Bozak-Phil

To me that's a very deep and talented top nine. That's sort of what I'm envisioning as the blue print. Something of that ilk.

Bozak at 3C is a HUGE difference than throwing Kessel with Lindberg hoping he can turn him into a good offensive player. That is an entirely different blueprint than having Lindberg.

 

[Ryder71]

Nothing precludes us from doing both. Cullen takes up minimal cap space and won't cost much to acquire. But if we have an injury I'd much rather have Cullen and Sheahan here to fill in, then have to use Rowney and Sheahan - and this is coming from someone who really likes how Sheahan has played.

And what asset are you giving up for Cullen if we decided to get him back?

 

[Ryder71]

Bozak at 3C is a HUGE difference than throwing Kessel with Lindberg hoping he can turn him into a good offensive player.

Or Eakin, or Bjugstad. As I mentioned, Lindberg is at the bottom of that list. That said I like his upside.

 

[Riptide]

I think 3c is far more important to this team than a LW. If we are forced to beef up LW, we can move Rust there and bring up Sprong. In fact that's likely the plan at some point. Well, unless a wing is traded. But to the original point 3c Is the be all end all relative to other needs.

Zero guarantee that that is an acceptable solution. It might work, but until we see Sprong play some NHL games, its' a gamble.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Or Eakin, or Bjugstad. As I mentioned, Lindberg is at the bottom of that list. That said I like his upside.

I'd be happy with either of those guys, but neither really fits your aim higher than Bonino plan. And there's a good chance Kessel is more useful with Geno than with either of them the same as Bones last year.

 

[Riptide]

I think we have a huge divide in how we see Cullen. If he's close to where he was last year, he'd be my 3C over Sheahan.

Cullen can't play 3C full time. We saw it last year that he'd run out of gas in games when asked to play that role on a regular basis. Yes he did great in the playoffs at the end there, but you're talking about a couple of games, not weeks on end.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Cullen can't play 3C full time. We saw it last year that he'd run out of gas in games when asked to play that role on a regular basis. Yes he did great in the playoffs at the end there, but you're talking about a couple of games, not weeks on end.

to be clear, I don't actually want either to be 3C. I'm just saying that Cullen is very good.

 

[Ryder71]

I'd be happy with either of those guys, but neither really fits your aim higher than Bonino plan. And there's a good chance Kessel is more useful with Geno than with either of them the same as Bones last year.

I think Bjugstad is getting a bum rap. I think he's a lot more than what FLA lets him do. He gets less than 15 mins of ice time a night. He's good away from the puck, has a nice release, moves well for his size, great on faceoffs, and leads his team with a + 10 in takeaways. If I had my pick he'd be at the top of that list of players. Him or Haula but he's not likely available.

Zero guarantee that that is an acceptable solution. It might work, but until we see Sprong play some NHL games, its' a gamble.

I'd rather do that and secure a good 3c though in favor of having to go out and get a LW. 3C is clearly the position in which to try and upgrade.

 

[Riptide]

And what asset are you giving up for Cullen if we decided get him back?

If Minny is out of the playoffs looking in, come the TD, I doubt he costs a 4th.

to be clear, I don't actually want either to be 3C. I'm just saying that Cullen is very good.

He is... but he's even older this year then last year, and him playing that role last year was an issue. A couple games here and there, not a big deal, but his game went down hill pretty quickly when asked to do it on a regular basis. And this isn't me saying something in hindsight, I said the same thing at the time it was happening (Feb maybe?).

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think Bjugstad is getting a bum rap. I think he's a lot more than what FLA lets him do. He gets less than 15 mins of ice time a night. He's good away from the puck, has a nice release, moves well for his size, great on faceoffs, and leads his team with a + 10 in takeaways. If I had my pick he'd be at the top of that list of players. Him or Haula but he's not likely available.

I agree he's good. He'd be towards the top of my list too. But Malkin and Kessel are really good together. My plan A would still be to see how our 3rd line can do without Kessel.

He is... but he's even older this year then last year, and him playing that role last year was an issue. A couple games here and there, not a big deal, but his game went down hill pretty quickly when asked to do it on a regular basis. And this isn't me saying something in hindsight, I said the same thing at the time it was happening (Feb maybe?).

Like I said, I don't actually want him playing 3C.

 

[Peat]

I have not mentioned Bonino in my time here and let me say the 2016 version would have been great, 2017? Meh. TBH I think we need better. We really need a high end or at minimum above average third line pivot. I don't view any of the players Sheahan,Cullen or Bonino from last year as such players. Sheahan or Cullen as 4c? Yeah, but neither can be our full time 3c if we're to have a serious playoff run.

There's a reason JR went for Duchene. He sees just how important this position is. A good quality 3c can make all the difference if the top two lines get stymied. I can't see Cullen or Sheahan doing that for an entire playoff run. I wouldn't want to risk it anyhow.

7 points from a Cup Winning 3C is probably around average. With the exception of Bonino in 2016, no Cup Winning 3C has scored more than 9 for a long time. Expecting a 3C to hit those heights regularly is an unfair expectation as is expecting a 3C to need to be that good.

And if we do want to emulate the HBK model, then arguably its all about chemistry with elite wingers and having enough wingers to be able to spare having Kessel down there, not the 3C to begin with.

 

[Night Shift]

If Vegas keeps winning I can't see Eakin,Haula or Lindberg available. Vegas is going to want to add for playoff push.

The thing that concerns me on Cullen is running out of gas by end of year because he is another year older now.

I'm intrigued by the Bjugstad idea. Florida more likely to sell than Vegas at TD

 

[Night Shift]

Kind of a long shot, but would Florida be willing to trade Trocheck? I'm sure it would cost Sprong, a #1 and we still have to add.. He is 24 and a Center and I think he can play wing to which he then can slide top 6. I'm sure he'd love to be back home too. He's also a long term solution and if we were to give up Sprong, Trocheck is someone that fits that I think.

 

[Riptide]

If Vegas keeps winning I can't see Eakin,Haula or Lindberg available. Vegas is going to want to add for playoff push.

The thing that concerns me on Cullen is running out of gas by end of year because he is another year older now.

I'm intrigued by the Bjugstad idea. Florida more likely to sell than Vegas at TD

One of these (LV Cs) is not like the others. Eakin and Lindberg are not at Haula's level - especially Lindberg. Not saying they're not good players, but we're talking about depth players - and these are guys who regularly get moved in this league if the team gets offered enough and/or they have an internal replacement for them.

As for LV, they're going to have to be a little creative this spring. IF they're near the POs, then they're going to want to try and succeed. However they also have a shitton of UFA's and they have to find a way to maximize the assets they bought from the expansion draft. That draft was their sole shot at setting up the franchise on a long term plan for success, and if they screw up how they deal with those assets, it will have a very long term impact to the team. The lower end guys obviously are not an issue, but guys like Neal, Perron and Marchessault, are not guys that they can afford to let walk for free. Each and every one of them will either need to be signed, or traded. And yet they are a huge part of the core of their offense accounting for 67 points between the 3 of them, with each hovering around a PPG.

What I'm expecting to see from LV (and this is if they're still pushing the POs come spring) is that they'll sell those that they cannot extend. However instead of just getting straight futures, they'll try to bring back a lesser NHL level player who can help them this season and potentially beyond, in addition to the futures they get - assuming the prospect they get isn't NHL ready. While not being as good as the player they're replacing if you're subtracting Neal, but can add a 15g/35pt winger to "replace him", that can kind of balance the short term needs with a long term vision. This could be a lesser FA or not - but the important part would be getting in a body to try and bridge the gap.

And I do not think that this will only apply to pending FAs. I think we will also see this with players who are further down on their depth chart who they can likely replace internally. Lindberg and to a lesser extent Eakin are great examples of this. For us, something around Eakin/Lindberg+ a FA D, for Cole (with extension)+futures is an example of how they can try and balance this. They get a long term player there and they get some futures. Do that a few times, and while they would obviously be trying to straddle the line between short/long term plans, depending on the potential returns and who we're talking about, it shouldn't kill their PO chances.

Yes it will degrade their immediate potential, but if Neal, Perron and March all walk for free, LV just f***ed themselves - and that's something they cannot afford to do.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Now, now, we all know JR has a rotary phone and considers it too modern.

When JR gets bad news, he slaps the carrier pigeon around.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Also, has anyone actually watched Cullen play in Minnesota this year? His stats don't look so hot, but I dunno, because I don't care enough to watch Minnesota play at 2 am.

 

[mpp9]

Kind of a long shot, but would Florida be willing to trade Trocheck? I'm sure it would cost Sprong, a #1 and we still have to add.. He is 24 and a Center and I think he can play wing to which he then can slide top 6. I'm sure he'd love to be back home too. He's also a long term solution and if we were to give up Sprong, Trocheck is someone that fits that I think.

I’d laugh in our faces. Trocheck is too good.