Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | I like to do just like the rest, I like my sugar sweet

[Empoleon8771]

I just don't think Hagelin's got any real value, certainly not more to other teams than he does here (speed, LW, defensive game, PKer). If we're moving pieces to fix the roster, I think we can afford to lose Sheary's production (which is all he brings) more easily than we can Hagelin's attributes.

I don't think you can decide what players to trade based on who has more value, that's the thing I disagree with. Sheary has more value, but he's also cheaper, better, younger, signed longer, plays better with the elite players on the team...yeah, you get the point. I'd swap Hagelin for another struggling winger with another team, in the same mold as the Perron for Hagelin trade. For Sheary, I'd want a top end 3C, plus I wouldn't make that trade until Sprong proves he's NHL ready. Neither of them should be untouchable, but I would much rather trade Hagelin before Sheary.

Someone brought it up on the trade boards, I think Hagelin and a high pick/prospect for Rieder is a decent idea for a deal. Rieder is having a really rough start to this year with Arizona. It's the same basis as the Perron and Clendening for Hagelin deal, but with a better prospect than Clendening being added because Rieder is a good bit more valuable than Hagelin.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I just don't think Hagelin's got any real value, certainly not more to other teams than he does here (speed, LW, defensive game, PKer). If we're moving pieces to fix the roster, I think we can afford to lose Sheary's production (which is all he brings) more easily than we can Hagelin's attributes.

I’m happy Hagelin this year because of his other attributes are still needed and as you said we’d get no value (or cap relief) in any trade. We do have to try and move him in the off season though.

“Get a better 3C and at least 1 better 4th line winger (hopefully 2) then threepeat.”

I hope JR has that quote written on his white board.

 

[Shady Machine]

Was it Hagelin-Rowney-Rust last game? Cause they looked great.

If that can be your 4th line, they are in business. In theory, you can pass on a 3rd line center if you get a 3rd line left wing upgrade and Sprong is ready.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I have a thought that it's Pittsburgh signing him. It would make a lot of sense, even with Murray healthy, it would be really nice to have a fringe NHL/AHL goalie in the system and would be even nicer to not have to trade assets for one of them.

 

[SEALBound]

Imagine our D with Karlsson...pipe dream I know.

??-Karlsson (12M)
??-??
??-??

I dunno how the cap would work, would have to lose Letang with no retention and probably Kessel aswell.

Letang+ for Karlsson is something I could support

He would fit perfectly on HF. He's a guy who loves when a fire starts so he can pour gasoline on it. Sometimes he tries to pour gasoline on a hot day just to idiotically start a fire. That's his whole gimmick.

I used to call auditors "seagulls". They come in, squawk a whole bunch, eat your food, shit everywhere, then leave. That seems to describe him pretty well, and by association, a decent number of people here too.

It's not even really true either, he signed a ton of guys in season over the last few years. I think all of Murray, Fleury, Maatta, Rust, Wilson and Kuhnhackl have gotten in season extensions under Rutherford.

Rust, Wilson, and Kuhn were young RFAs signed to what $680k each? Murray and Fleury were no brainers and signed to reasonable contracts (at that time). I give you credit for bringing those guys up but I will push back a little saying Hornqvist isn't exactly the same type of situation.

Was it Hagelin-Rowney-Rust last game? Cause they looked great.

I was fairly pleased with them. I also liked Jake-Sheahan-Phil. Thought both lines helps pick up slack with Geno out. Groups efforts.

Sheary-Sid-Horny
Jake-Sheahan-Phil
Hags-Rowns-Rust
ZAR-Malkin-Sprong

Ahhhhh...perfection.

Exactly, so his posturing of "Oh it'd be uncharacteristic of me" is horse ****. So it really irks me that he has done all of that, which we all know, and then Horny is still sitting there with no contract.

Performance...fit...development of others...cap ceiling next year...Horny's contract demands...

Lots of stuff to still consider. For clarification though, I want him signed.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If that can be your 4th line, they we are in business. In theory, you can pass on a 3rd line center if you get a 3rd line left wing upgrade and Sprong is ready.

Yeah, exactly what I was saying. If you put that line together, it's more than effective enough to make sure you use that big trade chip in Cole to land a better scoring depth winger for the 3rd line, which then allows you a spot to bring up a kid from WBS.

From what I can gather, Sprong is blocked because he's being lazy with his game away from the puck and his fate is tied to Donatello saying he's ready, which JR is waiting on. So until then, you have a water bug in DiPauli ready to inject energy into the line-up for a few games (which is fine, call them up for a few games then some others etc). Even ZAR after his dental issues would be fun to see up.

But I have liked what i have seen out of Sheahan, people here are so down on him even when hes playing well because he's not who they wanted regardless of anything good or great he does, the moment he does anything mediocre or wrong, it's "OMG HE SUCKS SO MUCH!"

Such a drag.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The biggest "move" this team can benefit from right now is having guys like Sid and Letang find their A games, getting Geno healthy again, and shoring things up defensively from a systematic/play standpoint as opposed to a personnel one. I don't think this team, on paper, is far off from going on another deep run but the product on the ice is absolute garbage compared to what it should be, to be frank. That's not to say we can't make moves to make this roster better, I think there's always room for improvement and evolution and I would like JR to do something of significance to shake things up and wake up the room, but again, our biggest boost is going to come from guys we already have I think.

 

[Peat]

I'm ambivalent on Hagelin. I'm happy to keep him as long as the salary isn't an issue but if you could somehow swap him for a more useful player without paying a lot, I'd be down for that too.

 

[Will Hunting]

I have a thought that it's Pittsburgh signing him. It would make a lot of sense, even with Murray healthy, it would be really nice to have a fringe NHL/AHL goalie in the system and would be even nicer to not have to trade assets for one of them.

It´s the Rangers.. or to be exact, Hartford probably..

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I have a thought that it's Pittsburgh signing him. It would make a lot of sense, even with Murray healthy, it would be really nice to have a fringe NHL/AHL goalie in the system and would be even nicer to not have to trade assets for one of them.

I would have to agree. As much as I love Jarry, the kid can't sit around being a backup. He needs to play and that was management's plan all along when they signed Niemi
Peter wouldn't cost much and would be a decent option to back up Murray once he get's back

 

[Empoleon8771]

It´s the Rangers.. or to be exact, Hartford probably..

Source? Because I'm not seeing a legitimate source that is saying that.

I would have to agree. As much as I love Jarry, the kid can't sit around being a backup. He needs to play and that was management's plan all along when they signed Niemi
Peter wouldn't cost much and would be a decent option to back up Murray once he get's back

No, they should keep Jarry up. There is no legitimate reason that Jarry shouldn't be the backup and shouldn't be getting plenty of games in the NHL, he's a good goalie. Mazanec would be playing in the AHL in this case.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I would have to agree. As much as I love Jarry, the kid can't sit around being a backup. He needs to play and that was management's plan all along when they signed Niemi
Peter wouldn't cost much and would be a decent option to back up Murray once he get's back

Well they got their wish in that Jarry is "playing", it's just that they didn't think it'd be in the NHL.

That being said, I think they've accomplished that goal of him not rotting this year albeit in a roundabout way. I think Jarry is fine with MM's backup going forward. Definitely agree with them adding an AHL netminder though

 

[Shady Machine]

I just don't think Hagelin's got any real value, certainly not more to other teams than he does here (speed, LW, defensive game, PKer). If we're moving pieces to fix the roster, I think we can afford to lose Sheary's production (which is all he brings) more easily than we can Hagelin's attributes.

Who is going to replace Sheary's production? Increasing offensive production is JR's goal in any acquisition anyway. Are you going to find someone that produces more than Sheary in a trade with Sheary going the other way?

 

[Will Hunting]

Source? Because I'm not seeing a legitimate source that is saying that.



No, they should keep Jarry up. There is no legitimate reason that Jarry shouldn't be the backup and shouldn't be getting plenty of games in the NHL, he's a good goalie. Mazanec would be playing in the AHL in this case.

Mazanec se vrací zpátky do NHL! Míří za Pavelcem do NY Rangers - iSport.cz
It´s the Czech newspaper saying that.. Not 100% legitimate, but in this case I believe it.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Don't think Mazanec would do particularly well in the NHL. If we are to get a goalie to back up Murray so that we can let Jarry develop in the minors, Hutchinson is the most ideal choice IMO.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Who is going to replace Sheary's production? Increasing offensive production is JR's goal in any acquisition anyway. Are you going to find someone that produces more than Sheary in a trade with Sheary going the other way?

Well I kicked around the idea of Sheary+Cole for Kane in a sign and deal move. Kane's got more goals than Sheary's got points, and brings a lot more to the table to boot. I don't think that package gets it done for Kane, but I'd go pretty hard after that guy if he's as available as is being rumored. Sid waking up (which looks like it may be happening) would go a long way too. Same with Letang. Sheary's production this season hasn't exactly been off the charts--though I don't know if it's fair to judge him that harshly when essentially the entire team's been a huge disappointment.

I'm just not really sold on Sheary. His play away from the puck is miserable and I don't think his production out-weighs that, and I have been really disappointed in him come playoff time.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Performance...fit...development of others...cap ceiling next year...Horny's contract demands...

Lots of stuff to still consider. For clarification though, I want him signed.

Horny falls around 5-6m/yr range, which is doable, you sign that contract and then sort out the rest in the off season when it will kick in. Performance? The guy is doing what he's doing and what he's always been doing - Putting up consistent 45-50pt, being a playoff monster, wreaking havoc everywhere on the ice, etc.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Why do we want Mazanec? The guy sucks in Slovan. He wasn't much to write home about in the AHL or NHL either.

 

[SEALBound]

Horny falls around 5-6m/yr range, which is doable, you sign that contract and then sort out the rest in the off season when it will kick in. Performance? The guy is doing what he's doing and what he's always been doing - Putting up consistent 45-50pt, being a playoff monster, wreaking havoc everywhere on the ice, etc.

I would do it at $5mil. Boy at 5.5-6mil...I get a little hesitant.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Well I kicked around the idea of Sheary+Cole for Kane in a sign and deal move. Kane's got more goals than Sheary's got points, and brings a lot more to the table to boot. I don't think that package gets it done for Kane, but I'd go pretty hard after that guy if he's as available as is being rumored. Sid waking up (which looks like it may be happening) would go a long way too. Same with Letang.

I'm just not really sold on Sheary. His play away from the puck is miserable and I don't think his production out-weighs that, and I have been really disappointed in him come playoff time.

Sheary’s play away from the puck can be masked if he plays with a Rust or Hornqvist type on the other side. With Guentzel, Kessel or a Sprong type he wouldn’t work as well.

He works for right now though.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Hornqvist's next deal is a really weird situation, man. On one hand, he's one of the best in the world at what he does (chaos around the net, goals in tight) and an absolute warrior who brings an energy that I really do think the team feeds off of. On the other hand, dollars and term are real significant factors. Nobody in the league takes close to the amount of abuse Hornqvist does on a shift-by-shift basis--uncalled abuse, too, so it's not something that's going to slow down or stop. His body is eventually going to wear down and he's not exactly the most skilled or quickest skater as is. Does he have a permanent spot alongside Sid, despite weird rumors of their clashes and evidence to support that in the way of Sully keeping them apart for lengths of time at important junctures? Can we afford to pay him the raise he's likely to command (probably around $6M or so, give or take $500k) for as many years as he'll be looking for (likely his final big deal, I'm sure he'll be asking for 5 or 6 years).

I love the dude. He's easily one of my favorite Penguins, but I'm not sure I just hand him a blank check.

 

[SEALBound]

Sheary’s play away from the puck can be masked if he plays with a Rust or Hornqvist type on the other side. With Guentzel, Kessel or a Sprong type he wouldn’t work as well.

He works for right now though.

Agreed. I'm always less than impressed with the defensive side of Jake-Sid-Sheary.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Like the movie Draft Day when Kevin Kostner has the note in his pocket “Pick Vontae Mack no matter what”, JR should have the note “Sign Patric Hornqvist no matter what” in his pocket

 

[Riptide]

I just don't think Hagelin's got any real value, certainly not more to other teams than he does here (speed, LW, defensive game, PKer). If we're moving pieces to fix the roster, I think we can afford to lose Sheary's production (which is all he brings) more easily than we can Hagelin's attributes.

He doesn't... but that still doesn't mean I'd move Sheary first. Sheary is one of the few skilled wingers we have, and someone who's vital to our roster if we really want a 3 line attack that can actually do something.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'm not really advocating that we rush out and sell Sheary to the first team interested, just to be clear. I just think he's less of an important piece than most, and think his value as an asset could end up proving more important than his place on the roster. Again, if we could package Sheary+Cole for a significant return, I'd be really interested. If we can get Kane, who Buffalo seems to be extremely keen on moving based on the reports that they're willing to retain a ton of salary, I think that's a dude that is just about perfect for this team. Young enough to be a part of the core, fast, good with and without the puck, adds muscle without simply being a plug, etc. I'm not sure that package interests Buffalo, and we'd absolutely have to get a sign-and-deal situation, but I'd take that every day of the week.