Salary Cap: Salary Cap: 2015 - insert witty title here

[drpepper]

Reasons as far as player specific you would have to ask them, im not involved in those meetings.

I really don't know why they think Bennett can play LW. I really have no idea.

Liking RHS on the RW and LHS on the LW isn't stupid. Like I said it might not be optimal in this specific context but its not buffoonish.

This isn't a general scenario; this is a specific context with a specific player who has played multiple games as a RW on a specific team that is sorely lacking in LWs and skilled LWs in particular.

Except its not a problem. Its a preseason game that is being used for evaluation like a preseason game should. If Sprong makes the team one of Bennett or Perron is moving back to LW and chairs will be shuffled accordingly.

The answer is obvious. Why change anything else until you have to? As of this morning Perron and Bennett are RWs, if you want to take a look at Sprong at 3 line RW the simplest choices are either insert Sprong and sit Perron or insert Sprong and bump Perron down and sit Bennett.

Preseason games aren't only about evaluation. Coaches' thought processes and decisions in preseason games don't exist in some kind of vacuum that ceases to exist when preseason is over.

Perron is a LW. Bennett is a RW. Only one of them should be involved in getting Sprong in the line-up.

 

[Asuna]

No I mean it's obvious that the coaching staff doesn't really like Perron or Bennett. So that's why they get demoted for Sprong over Kunitz or Duper. Or hell, even Plots. I mean I've been impressed with him, but why did he get every game next to Malkin?

Because he's Russian. Duh.

 

[drpepper]

No I mean it's obvious that the coaching staff doesn't really like Perron or Bennett. So that's why they get demoted for Sprong over Kunitz or Duper. Or hell, even Plots. I mean I've been impressed with him, but why did he get every game next to Malkin?

I really want to see Plotnikov with Kessel at some point this season.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The thing with Sprong on the 3RW is, you don't need to screw over Perron to achieve that. If you will not, under any circumstances, make the correct decision to play him in the top-6 at LW, fine. It's wrong, and you're ****ing stupid, but whatever. Perron - Bonino - Sprong should be your third line.

Plotnikov is a lock for top-6 LW. Looks like he'll be with Geno for language/comfort reasons, but I don't think he'd be out of place with Sid+Kessel either. The fact that this team believes Kunitz is a better option in the top-6 than, well, literally anyone, is ****ing absurd.

Perron - Crosby - Kessel
Plotnikov/Bennett - Malkin - Hornqvist
Bennett/Plotnikov - Bonino - Sprong

That's your correct top-9 situation. It puts guys in their proper place/role, it gives Sprong his due as a top-9 guy, our LWers are LWers. And most of all, it buries guys like Kunitz and (to a lesser extent) Dupuis, who do not belong in the top-6. Period.

It'll never happen, but that's the correct lineup in terms of effectiveness, position, and guys who earned their spots in camp/pre-season.

 

[brewski420]

No I mean it's obvious that the coaching staff doesn't really like Perron or Bennett. So that's why they get demoted for Sprong over Kunitz or Duper. Or hell, even Plots. I mean I've been impressed with him, but why did he get every game next to Malkin?

I agree with you, it's just not obvious to me why the coaching staff does not really like Bennett or Perron. I think its more of the veteran love this organization has for some players and I don't think it is necessarily coaching or even JR. It's been going on too long.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

You are just avoiding my questions and the logic behind the move to keep saying the same thing. I guess we will agree to disagree on the implications of the lines today.

Im not avoiding anything. My entire position is that the only reason anyone was move is purely to look at Sprong. Agree or Disagree?

Why the moved Perron down is SOLEY based on the fact that as of right now he is the 3rd line RW and that's the spot that Sprong will get his look. There is no reason to switch any other spots such as moving Perron back to LW until a final decision is made on Sprong. Why move a bunch of chairs when its simpler to just shift the current RWs down a spot rather that shift the whole bottom 6 around until its absolutely necessary.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The thing with Sprong on the 3RW is, you don't need to screw over Perron to achieve that. If you will not, under any circumstances, make the correct decision to play him in the top-6 at LW, fine. It's wrong, and you're ****ing stupid, but whatever. Perron - Bonino - Sprong should be your third line.

Plotnikov is a lock for top-6 LW. Looks like he'll be with Geno for language/comfort reasons, but I don't think he'd be out of place with Sid+Kessel either. The fact that this team believes Kunitz is a better option in the top-6 than, well, literally anyone, is ****ing absurd.

Perron - Crosby - Kessel
Plotnikov/Bennett - Malkin - Hornqvist
Bennett/Plotnikov - Bonino - Sprong

That's your correct top-9 situation. It puts guys in their proper place/role, it gives Sprong his due as a top-9 guy, our LWers are LWers. And most of all, it buries guys like Kunitz and (to a lesser extent) Dupuis, who do not belong in the top-6. Period.

It'll never happen, but that's the correct lineup in terms of effectiveness, position, and guys who earned their spots in camp/pre-season.

How dare you insult Duper and Kuni like that. Those are 1st line wingers who are the core and backbone of this team, you treat them with some respect. Just for that.

Kunitz-Crosby-Kessel
Dupuis-Malkin-Hornqvist
Sprong-Bonino-Plotnikov
Bennett-Cullen-Perron

Scuderi-Letang
Maatta-Lovejoy
Pouliot-Gonchar

 

[brewski420]

There is no reason to switch any other spots such as moving Perron back to LW until a final decision is made on Sprong. Why move a bunch of chairs when its simpler to just shift the current RWs down a spot rather that shift the whole bottom 6 around until its absolutely necessary.

Isn't that what preseason is for, to move people around to see what works? Perron gets two periods on LW and them goes back to L3 RW? Seems like the deck chairs were put down on 1 & 2 and they are not to be touched.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Hey MJ,

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why can the Pens never hire a coach who simply does the most logical thing? This is two coaches in a row now where the guy takes the pieces available to him and comes up with the dumbest things possible to do with them.

When EA's NHL16's auto-manager can come up with a better lineup than our last two coaches, you have to wonder what this organization looks for in its hiring process.

 

[Penguinsyay]

They have? Where's the evidence? Why does Bennett need a rest but Dupuis doesn't?

Hmm, basic observation skills? I guess they didn't come out as say it out right, but all the signs are there. Farnham hasn't gotten much of a look since he didn't get to play since the season opener, so they are giving him another game to show his stuff before likely cutting him.

For what its worth, Mackey just tweeted that they were giving BB a rest. People take rests during pre-season games, it is a thing that players do. BB has been playing great, I'm not sure why you'd assume his spot is in question because of a pre-season substitution for another guy who deserves a look but hasn't had a chance to play. Why they are resting him and not Dupuis, I can't say. Duper probably could use the play time more since he's been out so long.

EDIT: I am in no way defending the line up decisions as a whole. Just the fact that BB is OBVIOUSLY sitting this one out for the purposes of allowing Farnham to play in another pre-season game for showcasing purposes.

I think everyone has their rage goggles on right now so they are QQing about even the smallest things. Farnham was definitely in the running for that last position, at least when the pre-season started, so he is going to get a chance to play.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

hey mj and fo,

ftfy

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Those lines are...special. An old Kunitz and a KHL grinder making 900k round out our top 6, while a proven top 6 NHL LW, in his prime years and reportedly in great shape, is deployed as our 4th line RW.

Never in a million years did I think I'd type these words, but, I miss Dan Bylsma.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Hmm, basic observation skills? I guess they didn't come out as say it out right, but all the signs are there. Farnham hasn't gotten much of a look since he didn't get to play since the season opener, so they are giving him another game to show his stuff before likely cutting him.

For what its worth, Mackey just tweeted that they were giving BB a rest. People take rests during pre-season games, it is a thing that players do. BB has been playing great, I'm not sure why you'd assume his spot is in question because of a pre-season substitution for another guy who deserves a look but hasn't had a chance to play. Why they are resting him and not Dupuis, I can't say. Duper probably could use the play time more since he's been out so long.

EDIT: I am in no way defending the line up decisions as a whole. Just the fact that BB is OBVIOUSLY sitting this one out for the purposes of allowing Farnham to play in another pre-season game for showcasing purposes.

I think everyone has their rage goggles on right now so they are QQing about even the smallest things. Farnham was definitely in the running for that last position, at least when the pre-season started, so he is going to get a chance to play.

If these signs are so obvious, then you should be able to name some.

 

[drpepper]

Those lines are...special. An old Kunitz and a KHL grinder making 900k round out our top 6, while a proven top 6 NHL LW, in his prime years and reportedly in great shape, is deployed as our 4th line RW.

Never in a million years did I think I'd type these words, but, I miss Dan Bylsma.

Remember Iginla.

You don't want Bylsma back either.

 

[Shady Machine]

Im not avoiding anything. My entire position is that the only reason anyone was move is purely to look at Sprong. Agree or Disagree?

Why the moved Perron down is SOLEY based on the fact that as of right now he is the 3rd line RW and that's the spot that Sprong will get his look. There is no reason to switch any other spots such as moving Perron back to LW until a final decision is made on Sprong. Why move a bunch of chairs when its simpler to just shift the current RWs down a spot rather that shift the whole bottom 6 around until its absolutely necessary.

Why is Perron the 3rd line RW over Dupuis (a guy that has played right wing with Crosby for years)?

The 3rd line, assuming the current top 6, should be:

Perron-Bonino-Dupuis

In THAT scenario, Duper should be moved down.

So Perron is being played out of place and then gets screwed over to try out Sprong.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Those lines are...special. An old Kunitz and a KHL grinder making 900k round out our top 6, while a proven top 6 NHL LW, in his prime years and reportedly in great shape, is deployed as our 4th line RW.

Never in a million years did I think I'd type these words, but, I miss Dan Bylsma.

You shouldn't miss him, he's still here. Wearing a ridiculous toupee and a Mike Johnston mask behind the bench.

 

[IcedCapp]

firing MJ is like cutting off your foot due to diabetes and then going to golden corral 7 days a week

 

[Asuna]

hey what's wrong with golden corral

 

[Empoleon8771]

Remember Iginla.

You don't want Bylsma back either.

I'd like to see an argument for MJ over DB at this point.

firing MJ is like cutting off your foot due to diabetes and then going to golden corral 7 days a week

Wait what?

 

[drpepper]

firing MJ is like cutting off your foot due to diabetes and then going to golden corral 7 days a week

Firing the GM didn't seem to help much either.

I'd like to see an argument for MJ over DB at this point.

Many things are similar. Bylsma did the same thing in terms of playing certain players in the least advantageous and effective positions. Bylsma favored vets and grit in a similar way to Johnston. Neither have managed to keep down penalties or stop players from losing their ****. Neither appear particularly innovative or adaptable when it comes to lines or in-game player deployment.

System-wise, Johnston has a less stupid puck retrieval for defenders, and theoretically his transition/breakout is a good match for the Pens PMD as is his "activated defense" on offense. It remains to be seen if the transition/breakout & offense can translate well to the NHL. Johnston's defensive system isn't perfect but it may be more effective than Bylsma's.

Johnston seems more adaptable than Bylsma. Over the course of last season, Johnston made several systematic changes to counter injury issues and most importantly gain an advantage in the playoffs. Not all the changes paid off nor were they particularly creative, but the adaptiveness was promising.

Bylsma's systems were more robust than anything Johnston has used in that multiple players could be injured and the system still functioned (plug and play or next man up). For a team like the Pens with so many injuries, robustness is a good feature.

Bylsma's offense appears to have let Crosby & Malkin be more effective, but some of that may be familiarity. Johnston's offense appeared to neuter Crosby (I am not convinced Malkin was actually using a system) but that could be familiarity & injuries.

Bylsma had the team practice and succeed at shoot-outs suggesting that he had an idea about gaming the points system. Johnston's failure to work on shoot-outs could have cost the Pens the playoffs last season. Knowing how to manipulate the system is important.

Johnston's practices with the particular focus on skating drills seem like a very poor idea. Players last season couldn't keep up with intense games and practices.

I miss Jacques Martin's neutral zone & blueline defense from 2013-14 more than I miss anything about Bylsma. I like Jacques Martin's neutral zone & blueline defense more than I like anything Johnston has done.

 

[Shady Machine]

Hmm, basic observation skills? I guess they didn't come out as say it out right, but all the signs are there. Farnham hasn't gotten much of a look since he didn't get to play since the season opener, so they are giving him another game to show his stuff before likely cutting him.

For what its worth, Mackey just tweeted that they were giving BB a rest. People take rests during pre-season games, it is a thing that players do. BB has been playing great, I'm not sure why you'd assume his spot is in question because of a pre-season substitution for another guy who deserves a look but hasn't had a chance to play. Why they are resting him and not Dupuis, I can't say. Duper probably could use the play time more since he's been out so long.

EDIT: I am in no way defending the line up decisions as a whole. Just the fact that BB is OBVIOUSLY sitting this one out for the purposes of allowing Farnham to play in another pre-season game for showcasing purposes.

I think everyone has their rage goggles on right now so they are QQing about even the smallest things. Farnham was definitely in the running for that last position, at least when the pre-season started, so he is going to get a chance to play.

For what it's worth Mackey also said:

That would theoretically leave Perron and Bennett for fourth-line duty. That’s hardly ideal. Perhaps in a perfect world, the Penguins could entertain the idea of trading Perron, Bennett or both for a top-four defenseman.
I’ve been told that while the Penguins wouldn’t turn up their noses at the idea, it’s not something that has been actively pursued at this point.

And...

Don’t count out Bobby Farnham for the 12th forward spot.
Few have done anything to distinguish themselves enough to grab this role. Farnham has. Guys on the team love him. His energy is noticed and appreciated on the bench.

So reading between the lines there, one of Perron-Bennett on the 4th line and the other in the press box for Farnham isn't all that unlikely.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

ftfy

Good call.

You shouldn't miss him, he's still here. Wearing a ridiculous toupee and a Mike Johnston mask behind the bench.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Isn't that what preseason is for, to move people around to see what works? Perron gets two periods on LW and them goes back to L3 RW? Seems like the deck chairs were put down on 1 & 2 and they are not to be touched.

You can but unless Sprong makes the team the RWs and LWs are set. They can adjust accordingly if they decide to keep Sprong.

 

[billybudd]

Nah, his skating's been fine. You just despise Perron like I despise Kunitz. I get it. Only, my hatred has a basis behind it. Kunitz has been complete garbage for several seasons, whereas Perron was bad for a 20 game stretch during the worst slide in the team's past ~15 years. The difference is, Perron can be worked with to improve, and will be a good player for us for a long time. Kunitz is done.

It happens. I don't hold it against you, but Perron's been fine.

Your skating needs work, Perron was told. The message, though, hardly was necessary.

“I was probably average or below average with my skating,†Perron said. “I did not need to be told by anyone. Of course, we talked about it. But I knew going into the last month of the season what I wanted to work on over the summer.â€

I don't know what it is with this board in denying problems players openly admit they have. It's not better so far, by the way.