Player Discussion Ryan Spooner VII

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Tell that to Johnny Hockey!

im sure if we take the 100 best players in the world under 180 pounds at least 20 might be successful in nhl

if we take the 100 best players in world over 180 pounds all 100 will be successful

size still matters... but a few smaller guys can succeed if they work hard enough

 

[Pia8988]

im sure if we take the 100 best players in the world under 180 pounds at least 20 might be successful in nhl

if we take the 100 best players in world over 180 pounds all 100 will be successful

size still matters... but a few smaller guys can succeed if they work hard enough

What a ******** statement. There are more than 20 players under 180 currently in the NHL and plenty more just over that.

 

[GoBs]

Classic in the making: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cpd7c6RhI0

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

If

What a ******** statement. There are more than 20 players under 180 currently in the NHL and plenty more just over that.

If i should have said 175 instead of 180 you got me I suppose. I'm not going to go through the entire nhl to count how many players under 180 are having meaningful nhl careers

I wonder if you made a list of the best 350 nhl players (half) how many are below 180 pounds?

Skilled small guys get a chance these days but how many make it?

F leury made it... st louis... krug is smallish and succeeding. I'm sure off the top of my head I could name 20 guys I'd welcome on my top 2 lines or top 4 dmen...

I'm debating if I'd find more than 20... certainly no goalies...

Guys without size better hope they have amazing talent

 

[Pia8988]

Krug is 186, but short
Kane is 177
Pastrnak is 181
Marchand is 181
Tyler Johnson 183 but 5'8
Gaudreau is 157
Spooner is 184
Clayton Keller is 168
Goligoski is 185
Versteeg is 176
Aho is 172
Tereavainen is 178

That's just a few teams and NHL.com weights which are probably even being generous on some and only going down to Chicago in rosters. The argument that 20 out of 100 of the top 'small' players are successful maybe is such a bad thing. But yeah, lower the weight more until you find an number that actually fits.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Krug is 186, but short
Kane is 177
Pastrnak is 181
Marchand is 181
Tyler Johnson 183 but 5'8
Gaudreau is 157
Spooner is 184
Clayton Keller is 168
Goligoski is 185
Versteeg is 176
Aho is 172
Tereavainen is 178

That's just a few teams and NHL.com weights which are probably even being generous on some and only going down to Chicago in rosters. The argument that 20 out of 100 of the top 'small' players are successful maybe is such a bad thing. But yeah, lower the weight more until you find an number that actually fits.

6 of your 12 examples are over 180... arent they? and if i lower my initial statement to 175 that elliminates 3 more of your examples

you found 3 guys going down to chicago... thats what 7 teams? if you go down 5 times further might you find 15 examples? or 30?

i am ok with my initial statement that very few guys under 180 make it

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

6 of your 12 examples are over 180... arent they?

I've been hard on your stuff lately, AOF... But this isn't really an argument, is it?

Is it seriously being debated that smaller players have a more difficult path to success in the NHL? Of course they do. How silly.

 

[Pia8988]

I've been hard on your stuff lately, AOF... But this isn't really an argument, is it?

Is it seriously being debated that smaller players have a more difficult path to success in the NHL? Of course they do. How silly.

That wasn't his argument. His statement that maybe 20 of the best under 180 players in the entire world would have successful careers. Not that smaller players in general have a harder time. They certainly do.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

That wasn't his argument. His statement that maybe 20 of the best under 180 players in the entire world would have successful careers. Not that smaller players in general have a harder time. They certainly do.

He was responding to a conversation concerning Czarnik about their size potentially hindering their NHL viability. Perhaps his example wasn't quite sharp, but his argument remains valid.

Smaller guys require something truly exceptional in their respective games to stick... Whereas a big body (and not much else) like Jimmy Hayes can see a lot of ice at an NHL level.

A brief list of smallish skaters doesn't quite count as substance in this particularly foolish debate.

 

[vjcsmoke]

Can we get anything of value in trade for Ryan Spooner? If so, pull the trigger! I'd be happy with getting a 2nd round pick back at this point. If two 2nd rounders, I'll drive him to the airport myself!

 

[BadBruins]

6 of your 12 examples are over 180... arent they? and if i lower my initial statement to 175 that elliminates 3 more of your examples

you found 3 guys going down to chicago... thats what 7 teams? if you go down 5 times further might you find 15 examples? or 30?

i am ok with my initial statement that very few guys under 180 make it

180 lbs and under:

Johnny Gaudreau
Jared Spurgeon
Brayden Point
Artemi Panarin
Kris Russell
Paul Byron
Mitch Marner
Sebastian Aho
Nikolaj Ehlers
Jonathan Marchessault
Conor Sheary
Patrick Kane
Nikita Kucherov
Teuvo Teravainen
Mats Zuccarello
Nic Petan
Toby Enstrom
Ryan Ellis
Brandon Tanev
Mike Hoffman
Viktor Arvidsson
Shayne Gostisbehere
Jake Guentzel
Jean-Gabriel Pageau

That's a pretty impressive list IMO. Though I generally agree. There are close to 50 NHL regulars sitting at or under 180 lbs. Not many role players.

 

[Baddkarma]

I thought Czarnik was absolutely awful last year.

This, I hope his two-way deal its a one way ticket to the baby Bs. If Czarnik plays more than 5-10 games due to injuries the Bruins are screwed!

 

[Dr Quincy]

If i should have said 175 instead of 180 you got me I suppose. I'm not going to go through the entire nhl to count how many players under 180 are having meaningful nhl careers

I wonder if you made a list of the best 350 nhl players (half) how many are below 180 pounds?

Skilled small guys get a chance these days but how many make it?

F leury made it... st louis... krug is smallish and succeeding. I'm sure off the top of my head I could name 20 guys I'd welcome on my top 2 lines or top 4 dmen...

I'm debating if I'd find more than 20... certainly no goalies...

Guys without size better hope they have amazing talent

There's a major flaw in your argument. It is that you are comparing "the best" <180lbs guys with "the best" >180lbs guys. But that's not really the choice. The "best" big guys will have jobs for sure. But there are a bunch of big guys that aren't skilled in the league. Would you rather Jimmy Hayes or Sebastian Aho? Ryan Ellis or Duncan Siemens?

Easy choice sure, because we know how they turned out. But there are a growing number of scouts, stats guys and prospect watchers who are pimping the smaller skill guy over the big guys who haven't scored a lot but "boy if they ever find that skill they'll be great" guys.

In a perfect world your team would be the biggest, fastest, strongest, most skilled, hardest working, toughest guys in the world. But there are only so many of those guys. It comes down to do you want to take a chance on a guy who might have immense skill but less than ideal size or a guy with ideal size but less skill.

In today's game, it's becoming clearer that the former are the better gamble.

 

[twominute]

Can we get anything of value in trade for Ryan Spooner? If so, pull the trigger! I'd be happy with getting a 2nd round pick back at this point. If two 2nd rounders, I'll drive him to the airport myself!

I would think a team that struggles on the PP would give a 2nd for him.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

I would think a team that struggles on the PP would give a 2nd for him.

Funny, the Bruins used to be one of those teams.

Spooner definitely isn't the only reason the PP has been successful, but he was part of it.

Curious to see what direction this team goes... because I have no idea what they are doing besides just waiting for their prospects to develop.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

There's a major flaw in your argument. It is that you are comparing "the best" <180lbs guys with "the best" >180lbs guys. But that's not really the choice. The "best" big guys will have jobs for sure. But there are a bunch of big guys that aren't skilled in the league. Would you rather Jimmy Hayes or Sebastian Aho? Ryan Ellis or Duncan Siemens?

Easy choice sure, because we know how they turned out. But there are a growing number of scouts, stats guys and prospect watchers who are pimping the smaller skill guy over the big guys who haven't scored a lot but "boy if they ever find that skill they'll be great" guys.

In a perfect world your team would be the biggest, fastest, strongest, most skilled, hardest working, toughest guys in the world. But there are only so many of those guys. It comes down to do you want to take a chance on a guy who might have immense skill but less than ideal size or a guy with ideal size but less skill.

In today's game, it's becoming clearer that the former are the better gamble.

im not saying big guys make the nhl all the time... more saying big guys get a biased easier time to make it

kids like joe hullbig and tyler biggs get drafted way too early because they are huge... kids like the debricit kid ( sp) shock fans when they fall

where was johnny hockey drafted?
why was martin st louis a waiver claim?

im making no personal judgement on smaller players other than to say they better be immensly talented if they want to have a meaningful nhl career

in fact... on a personal level... i would say the top 100 players under 175 probably skate better and have better cooridnation than the best over 175 players

its just... size does matter in the nhl for the people making decesions

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Can we get anything of value in trade for Ryan Spooner? If so, pull the trigger! I'd be happy with getting a 2nd round pick back at this point. If two 2nd rounders, I'll drive him to the airport myself!

would you give up a 2nd for him if hes making 3 mill?

i think on an elc he might be worth a second to the right team but the nhl is about contracts. theres not alot of teams willing to have a 15 goal 40 point pp specialist winger making 3 mill as part of their team

he needs to become a better defensive player... establish himself as a 50 point legitimate center... and then 3 mill will be a bargain contract and he could be worth a first ++

i feel ill to my stomach but the way im reading the tea leaves the past 30 days, there was no market for spooner and he will be here getting another chance to improve this season

 

[BruinLVGA]

It would be interesting to see how many centers that put up mid 40s points + are 25 yo (or thereabouts. Say 22/27) + are on the first year of a new contract extension that pays $3m or less, are in the league. For curiosity.

 

[amazingcrwns]

i feel ill to my stomach but the way im reading the tea leaves the past 30 days, there was no market for spooner and he will be here getting another chance to improve this season

I still think Spooner gets dealt before training camp. My uneducated guess is teams want to see what he gets in arbitration so they can properly assess his value and make an appropriate offer.

In other words $2.15 mil Spooner might be worth a late 2nd, but $3.25 mil Spooner only gets you a 4th and a 2 way contract defenseman.

 

[DitClapper]

How about something along the lines around Spooner for Jordan Subban?

 

[BruinDust]

I still think Spooner gets dealt before training camp. My uneducated guess is teams want to see what he gets in arbitration so they can properly assess his value and make an appropriate offer.

In other words $2.15 mil Spooner might be worth a late 2nd, but $3.25 mil Spooner only gets you a 4th and a 2 way contract defenseman.

How does either deal help make the 2017-18 Boston Bruins a better hockey team?

I don't like Spooner but that being said, he still brings something to the table (mostly on the PP) that helps the Bruins today.

If he brought nothing positive to the team, he wouldn't even be here.

Dealing Spooner for futures only makes sense if Sweeney has a another deal cooked up to use the cap space he currently has + the savings by moving Spooner, to bring back a better player.

 

[BruinDust]

How about something along the lines around Spooner for Jordan Subban?

So essentially giving Spooner away.

 

[amazingcrwns]

How does either deal help make the 2017-18 Boston Bruins a better hockey team?

I don't like Spooner but that being said, he still brings something to the table (mostly on the PP) that helps the Bruins today.

If he brought nothing positive to the team, he wouldn't even be here.

Dealing Spooner for futures only makes sense if Sweeney has a another deal cooked up to use the cap space he currently has + the savings by moving Spooner, to bring back a better player.

I was just using picks as an example to support my point. I believe a Spooner trade is more likely after the arbitration award further solidifies his trade value. What the return ends up being is anyone's guess.

If Spooner gets 3.25 mil in arbitration I'd rather trade him for picks, move Backes to 3C and bring Stafford back to fill in the wing position Backes would occupy if Spooner was still in the lineup. That's just me though, I don't see spooner here long term, I think JFK and Frederick are better long term solutions. Not for the 17/18 season, but probably starting in 18/19

 

[Over the volcano]

I was just using picks as an example to support my point. I believe a Spooner trade is more likely after the arbitration award further solidifies his trade value. What the return ends up being is anyone's guess.

If Spooner gets 3.25 mil in arbitration I'd rather trade him for picks, move Backes to 3C and bring Stafford back to fill in the wing position Backes would occupy if Spooner was still in the lineup. That's just me though, I don't see spooner here long term, I think JFK and Frederick are better long term solutions. Not for the 17/18 season, but probably starting in 18/19

Is there any word on what length the bruins will be asking for in arbitration (one or two years)?

 

[BruinDust]

I was just using picks as an example to support my point. I believe a Spooner trade is more likely after the arbitration award further solidifies his trade value. What the return ends up being is anyone's guess.

If Spooner gets 3.25 mil in arbitration I'd rather trade him for picks, move Backes to 3C and bring Stafford back to fill in the wing position Backes would occupy if Spooner was still in the lineup. That's just me though, I don't see spooner here long term, I think JFK and Frederick are better long term solutions. Not for the 17/18 season, but probably starting in 18/19

I agree on the premise that a Spooner deal is more likely post-arbitration, and like yourself don't see a long-term future for him in Boston and that moving forward JFK and Frederic will be better solutions (I don't want Spooner at center ice now).

But if they want to bring Stafford back they have the cap space to do so and retain Spooner.

Fact is, whether he gets 2.5 million or 3.5 million in arbitration, it's not a long-term commitment (likely 1 year, no more than 2), he's value isn't going to signifcantly decrease between now and next offseason, and he makes next year's team better, if for nothing more than his PP contributions alone.

If an arbitrator could award a 3-4-5 year deal, different story, but he can't. It's a short-term commitment whether it's 1 year or 2.