Confirmed with Link: Ryan Mcleod Re-Signed $2.1 million AAV x 2 Years, Avoids Arbitration Hearing

[Bryanbryoil]

Its interesting how the NHL contracts used to (almost exclusively) be about what you have accomplished as an NHL player.

Now it seems to be more about perceived potential....what you could accomplish as an NHL player..

A lot of people pin that on Kevin Lowe and the Dustin Penner offer sheet. Paying more for potential on a RFA vs. UFA's.

 

[tiger_80]

If he's a legit 3C he's a bargain. If he's a 4C then he's a little bit of a cap liability but should be an elite 4C IMO.

He's better than a 4th liner. But probably not a good 3rd liner just yet.

A lot of people pin that on Kevin Lowe and the Dustin Penner offer sheet. Paying more for potential on a RFA vs. UFA's.

Probably more the reality of the cap. When you only have so much money to spend, it makes sense to invest into somebody who can improve as opposed to paying premium for a star player in the twilight of his career.

 

[Mr Positive]

---

He's better than a 4th liner. But probably not a good 3rd liner just yet.

It's a smart bet imo that McLeod would make another developmental step. If so, that would be a massive asset to have for a playoff run. Buying a deadline mercenary is a crapshoot, and wouldn't have McLeod's youthful energy. The best teams usually have affordable young depth players that hit their potential.

And, if McLeod does badly we could always go shopping for a Bjugstad type again.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

He's better than a 4th liner. But probably not a good 3rd liner just yet.


Probably more the reality of the cap. When you only have so much money to spend, it makes sense to invest into somebody who can improve as opposed to paying premium for a star player in the twilight of his career.

Maybe, but until then most guys got squeezed pretty hard on their 2nd contracts.

 

[grego]

I would like to see the NHL flip to where younger guys pre 30 paid closer to value and the older players at current worth too.

It will make a trade for an old vet much easier

 

[North Cole]

Lmao people would rather pay Kostin 2M than McLeod 2.1? Deranged.

 

[macbowes]

This is obviously a good deal. Look at the list of active 19-24 year old C's over 6' tall, because those are McLeods comparables. The idea that McLeod is overpaid is positively absurd, and is an opinion that indicates ignorance. He would get this deal from all 32 teams, no questions asked. Trading McLeod was never an option, and would return zero value, because that's how trades involving middle-6 players work. There are no viable veteran alternatives at 3C, either via trade or FA, and anyone with access to capfriendly can tell you that.

 

[duul]

Lmao people would rather pay Kostin 2M than McLeod 2.1? Deranged.

Definitely. They had nearly identical points, same age, with one being capable of potentially moving up the lineup, bringing physicality and a playoff demeanour -- while the other is a 4C. Kostin could realistically play anywhere on our left side, McLeod is nothing more than a 4C.

When two players produce the same amount of points we should start to look at things like playoff production, physicality, intangibles. Kostin is a guy who will fight and hit and talk shit. McLeod is a wallflower who wilts, hiding along the outsides of the rink.

Kostin played far less minutes, put up the same points, and provides far more intangibles to a group, while thriving in playoff hockey. It's not close.

This is obviously a good deal. Look at the list of active 19-24 year old C's over 6' tall, because those are McLeods comparables. The idea that McLeod is overpaid is positively absurd, and is an opinion that indicates ignorance. He would get this deal from all 32 teams, no questions asked. Trading McLeod was never an option, and would return zero value, because that's how trades involving middle-6 players work. There are no viable veteran alternatives at 3C, either via trade or FA, and anyone with access to capfriendly can tell you that.

I love how you can go from saying he isn't overpaid to saying he has no value in the span of two sentences.

 

[macbowes]

Definitely. They had nearly identical points, same age, with one being capable of potentially moving up the lineup, bringing physicality and a playoff demeanour -- while the other is a 4C. Kostin could realistically play anywhere on our left side, McLeod is nothing more than a 4C.

When two players produce the same amount of points we should start to look at things like playoff production, physicality, intangibles. Kostin is a guy who will fight and hit and talk shit. McLeod is a wallflower who wilts, hiding along the outsides of the rink.

Kostin played far less minutes, put up the same points, and provides far more intangibles to a group, while thriving in playoff hockey. It's not close.


I love how you can go from saying he isn't overpaid to saying he has no value in the span of two sentences.

Fair value contracts often have no trade value, especially for bottom 6/3rd pair talent. The contracts that have trade value are the ones where the player is worth more than their cap hit. We see it clearly every year in free agency, where rentals are traded for 1st's+, sign a new deal at market value, and then are instantly worth nothing. The player didn't become worse, they just got paid what they were worth and are no longer a sought after asset.

 

[North Cole]

Definitely. They had nearly identical points, same age, with one being capable of potentially moving up the lineup, bringing physicality and a playoff demeanour -- while the other is a 4C. Kostin could realistically play anywhere on our left side, McLeod is nothing more than a 4C.

When two players produce the same amount of points we should start to look at things like playoff production, physicality, intangibles. Kostin is a guy who will fight and hit and talk shit. McLeod is a wallflower who wilts, hiding along the outsides of the rink.

Kostin played far less minutes, put up the same points, and provides far more intangibles to a group, while thriving in playoff hockey. It's not close.


I love how you can go from saying he isn't overpaid to saying he has no value in the span of two sentences.

He played far less minutes because his situational utility is much less. This kostin mythos is reaching forsberg levels of fantasy.

"Kostin could realistically play anywhere on our left side"... considering we've had complete junk on our wings for multiple years in a row, I'm going to go with, no, he couldn't.

Playoff production in an irrelevant sample size and "intangibles" don't do much for me. They don't trump one guy getting 2x the minutes and more situations. Rest is just random character arguments which is your opinion. My opinion is that Kostin likes to take stupid penalties and we get enough of that from kane.

 

[tiger_80]

Fair value contracts often have no trade value, especially for bottom 6/3rd pair talent. The contracts that have trade value are the ones where the player is worth more than their cap hit. We see it clearly every year in free agency, where rentals are traded for 1st's+, sign a new deal at market value, and then are instantly worth nothing. The player didn't become worse, they just got paid what they were worth and are no longer a sought after asset.

Depends on the player. A topline forward or a top pairing d-men are worth a lot even in the cap world, just because they are rarely available (See Karlsson). Guys like Ceci, Kulak, Foegele are useful NHLers, but you will not get much for them--maybe a late round pick or a lesser priced player.

 

[duul]

He played far less minutes because his situational utility is much less. This kostin mythos is reaching forsberg levels of fantasy.

"Kostin could realistically play anywhere on our left side"... considering we've had complete junk on our wings for multiple years in a row, I'm going to go with, no, he couldn't.

Playoff production in an irrelevant sample size and "intangibles" don't do much for me. They don't trump one guy getting 2x the minutes and more situations. Rest is just random character arguments which is your opinion. My opinion is that Kostin likes to take stupid penalties and we get enough of that from kane.

If Kostin got half the minutes McLeod did, then he put up 2x the points per 60 than McLeod did. Do you see how this works? One plays centre on a team that we have forced RNH to play wing on and is playing above his station because the coach raised him from a young pup. The other is brand new to the organization and finding his footing in the NHL. After this coming season I suppose we will see the truth about Kostin.

Kane
RNH
Foegele

Why would Woodcroft put an unknown player ahead of Kane or RNH? He outproduced Foegele. Kostin would have slotted in just fine in the top 6 but we had a 104 point LW in RNH and our prized Evander Kane ahead of him.

 

[Spawn]

Why would Woodcroft put an unknown player ahead of Kane or RNH? He outproduced Foegele. Kostin would have slotted in just fine in the top 6 but we had a 104 point LW in RNH and our prized Evander Kane ahead of him.

He had a better playoffs than Foegele. He did not outproduce Foegele in the regular season. Not by any metric. Foegele produced more overall. Produced more per game. Produced more per/60 at 5v5.

 

[duul]

He had a better playoffs than Foegele. He did not outproduce Foegele in the regular season. Not by any metric. Foegele produced more overall. Produced more per game. Produced more per/60 at 5v5.

Yea man we are talking playoffs here. If you want to talk regular season it was pretty close, with Kostin dominating in points per 60.

 

[Spawn]

Yea man we are talking playoffs here. If you want to talk regular season it was pretty close, with Kostin dominating in points per 60.

Foegele 2.09 points/60 at 5v5
Kostin 2.02 points/60 at 5v5

 

[duul]

Foegele 2.09 points/60 at 5v5
Kostin 2.02 points/60 at 5v5

Kostin was third on the entire team in goals per 60 at evens, lmao. He was bound to break out with more minutes.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

We're not going to play the blatant disinformation game here Spawn. Weren't you a mod at one point? Converse in good faith.

Kostin was third on the entire team in goals per 60 at evens, lmao. He was bound to break out with more minutes.

Laughing at the two blindfaith fools liking your post.

 

[Spawn]

No disinformation @duul

Your stats are ES/60 not 5v5/60. Maybe Kostin got a 4v4 point or an empty net point or something and its counting in your stats.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Kostin was third on the entire team in goals per 60 at evens, lmao. He was bound to break out with more minutes.

You said Kostin dominated points/60 in the regular season, which two people showed you otherwise, then you try and save face by moving to goals/60.

 

[duul]

You said Kostin dominated points/60 in the regular season, which two people showed you otherwise, then you try and save face by moving to goals/60.

I clearly have points per 60 at even strength highlighted, of which Kostin is 5th on the entire team. At worst he is an equal level player to Foegele. At worst. Considering intangibles, physicality, fighting, while putting up better points per 60 at EVEN STRENGTH, he is more valuable and significantly cheaper.

But we had to keep McDavid and Brown's friend from Erie around for some reason.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I clearly have points per 60 at even strength highlighted, of which Kostin is 5th on the entire team. At worst he is an equal level player to Foegele. At worst. Considering intangibles, physicality, fighting, while putting up better points per 60 at EVEN STRENGTH, he is more valuable and significantly cheaper.

But we had to keep McDavid and Brown's friend from Erie around for some reason.

Yea man we are talking playoffs here. If you want to talk regular season it was pretty close, with Kostin dominating in points per 60.

You stated Kostin was dominating in points per 60, go ahead and say you meant at es instead of 5v5 but either way there was no dominating, it was basically a wash with foegele even ahead at 5v5.

Besides if the best player in the world wants you to keep a guy around it’s probably a good idea to try and do that. I won’t be shocked when Foegle rewards his captain and managements faith with a career year this season.

Klim was physical and had some good sound bites but given the cap situation I don’t think it would be smart to take a multi year multi million gamble on a guy who’s had a good 50 game stretch while shooting 20%. It was a good pump and dump, found money that Holland turned into probably the most valuable asset currently, cap space.

 

[Soundwave]

Kostin is not here because Holland overpaid Nurse and Campbell and a bit to Foegele as well.

McLeod and Kostin are both players we should have been looking to keep. To be honest I thought we missed Anton Slepyshev after the 2017 playoffs where he contributed some goals and had a little grit, Kostin was a much better player than Slepyshev.

I think if given a shot with Connor or Leon, Kostin could score 25-27 goals ala Patrick Maroon.

 

[OilerTyler]

You said Kostin dominated points/60 in the regular season, which two people showed you otherwise, then you try and save face by moving to goals/60.

When talking about bottom six forwards who don't play a ton of minutes I wonder how much one call like this can effect a player's goals/60.

 

[duul]

You stated Kostin was dominating in points per 60, go ahead and say you meant at es instead of 5v5 but either way there was no dominating, it was basically a wash with foegele even ahead at 5v5.

Besides if the best player in the world wants you to keep a guy around it’s probably a good idea to try and do that. I won’t be shocked when Foegle rewards his captain and managements faith with a career year this season.

Klim was physical and had some good sound bites but given the cap situation I don’t think it would be smart to take a multi year multi million gamble on a guy who’s had a good 50 game stretch while shooting 20%. It was a good pump and dump, found money that Holland turned into probably the most valuable asset currently, cap space.

Yes, at even strength Kostin was 5th on the entire team for points per 60, which is exactly what I stated.

Foegele was well behind and costs significantly more while also providing none of the intangibles Kostin does. Kostin was just ramping up and with a bit more leeway at the start of a fresh season he would have bloomed in our middle 6, supplanting Foegele with ease.

I am willing to make avatar bets with people about Kostin's production this year. Who thinks Foegele outproduces him?

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Yes, at even strength Kostin was 5th on the entire team for points per 60, which is exactly what I stated.

Foegele was well behind and costs significantly more while also providing none of the intangibles Kostin does. Kostin was just ramping up and with a bit more leeway at the start of a fresh season he would have bloomed in our middle 6, supplanting Foegele with ease.

I am willing to make avatar bets with people about Kostin's production this year. Who thinks Foegele outproduces him?

I’ll take that bet.

Foegele will outpace Kostin in points per 60 at 5v5 (or ES)

The Dominance you seem to think Kostin displayed boils down to 1-2 pts over the year with the amount these guys play.

I’ll take Foegele in a contract year over Kostin who is highly unlikely to replicate his 20% shooting, especially going from the highest scoring team in the league to the 24th highest scoring team.

You’re gonna love your avatar.