Speculation: Ryan Johansen "Softly in play"

[CBJWerenski8]

Don't think Hartnell would be in any johansen deal. That's way too much salary moving around. However I do think we could deal Hartnell for a pretty penny if we retained some salary, if we don't we may only get a small return.

 

[blahblah]

However, Hartnell can bring in enough in his own deal without being a throw in/salary dump in a Johansen deal. I'd reserve that role for someone that would be a lot harder to move...say, Clarkson...

You think a team is willing to eat Clarkson to get Johansen? The number of teams willing to do that is probably on one hand, more like one or two fingers if that. One of the issues with getting a cap team to eat Clarkson is that he's not on LTIR, ala Horton. There might be a couple of floor teams willing to to get Johansen and get Clarkson, but then what are going to get for Johansen? Salary will come back in the form of another waste of a roster spot.

Hartnell is productive, but there are also a limited number of teams with the cap and the want to eat 3 more years of his 4.75 cap hit.

If you want to retool and free up cap space, Hartnell could very well end up as a salary dump.

The reason is Nashville keeps coming up is because if you look at the teams they look like great partners. They could use Johansen, we could use defense, and Nashville has cap space.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If you want to retool and free up cap space, Hartnell could very well end up as a salary dump.

The reason is Nashville keeps coming up is because if you look at the teams they look like great partners. They could use Johansen, we could use defense, and Nashville has cap space.

But not much to offer of value in return that makes Hartnell a cap dump. I get the idea that he could be paired with Johansen, but the logical returns (Wilson, Smith) don't really offer much in the way of savings. And if you shoot lower, you're not getting value for Hartnell. Is just shedding the salary enough reason?

 

[SuperGenius]

You think a team is willing to eat Clarkson to get Johansen? The number of teams willing to do that is probably on one hand, more like one or two fingers if that. One of the issues with getting a cap team to eat Clarkson is that he's not on LTIR, ala Horton. There might be a couple of floor teams willing to to get Johansen and get Clarkson, but then what are going to get for Johansen? Salary will come back in the form of another waste of a roster spot.

Hartnell is productive, but there are also a limited number of teams with the cap and the want to eat 3 more years of his 4.75 cap hit.

If you want to retool and free up cap space, Hartnell could very well end up as a salary dump.

The reason is Nashville keeps coming up is because if you look at the teams they look like great partners. They could use Johansen, we could use defense, and Nashville has cap space.

I don't really think that it's workable, but if the rumor has any basis in fact, it's something I'd try to sell. I'm mentioning it more in the context of the report of Joey + high salary veteran rumor being discussed. Hartnell and Clarkson's salaries aren't that different - CBJ might even eat some if appropriate (not that they've done that often).

 

[blahblah]

But not much to offer of value in return that makes Hartnell a cap dump.

What? Did you just define a salary dump? The point of a salary dump is to not receive much salary back and the return is pretty low. I'm not following you. If you "dump" Hartnell you aren't expecting much in return.

If you got Wilson back it's not a salary dump and that is a good return, so I don't know what they complaint would be.

I'm not even sure you dump Hartnell to Nashville in the team to be honest. Johansen's next contract is going to be higher than say, Jones. Heck, Johansen might be Jones and Wilson together, as an example.

I read that thread that Viqsi posted and while civil, there wasn't much of value in there last night. I doubt that has changed. If you had posted the Saad team on the forums before it occurred you would have been laughed at.

I'm not sure if Nashville is interested or if the rumor mongers just realize it's a logical landing spot and so they are running with it.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

What? Did you just define a salary dump? The point of a salary dump is to not receive much salary back and the return is pretty low. I'm not following you. If you "dump" Hartnell you aren't expecting much in return.

You're right. It's probably because I just don't like it.

 

[CBJx614]

The way I look at it.

Adding Hartnell to a deal will add SOME value to the deal

Adding Clarkson will just TAKEaway value from the deal.

 

[blahblah]

Hartnell and Clarkson's salaries aren't that different - CBJ might even eat some if appropriate (not that they've done that often).

If the CBJ ate half of Clarkson's salary that still may not work. I'm not sure if a team can eat bonus's. The team that acquires him might still be responsible for the entire bonus. If you can eat half of Clarkson's bonus's as well that may work and I would do it in a heart beat. No questions asked. I would do it for a 7th round pick in return.

On a side note, the salaries might be similar but there is a one huge difference. Hartnell is productive. You can't put them in the same category. Not to say Hartnell would be in high demand or not, but his value is infinitely higher than Clarkson's. Clarkson would be a non-starter for almost every team.

 

[blahblah]

The way I look at it.

Adding Hartnell to a deal will add SOME value to the deal

Adding Clarkson will just TAKEaway value from the deal.

Pretty simple isn't it? The handling of Horton is the biggest mistake of this front office and it's going to hurt us for years to come. They compounded not insuring Horton's contract with a panic move. They should have taken Richards as, at least, you could have bought him out.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Here's the difference - Clarkson will be a huge liability in any trade. Hartnell could be viewed as an asset (at least this year).

So if base trade was Ry Jo for Jones, then suddenly the CBJ comes back and tries to throw in Clarkson, then the Preds would ask for a lot more - something like Ry Jo, 1st round pick + Clarkson for Jones plus likely a salary dump back.

I would suspect you could trade Hartnell for much more by himself. Don't know if he will get a 1st round pick but likely a high end prospect who we could control for a few seasons.

 

[blahblah]

1st round pick

Opposing GM's know that this years 1st is a complete non-starter. Even following years would be lottery protected. If they ask they really aren't serious about a deal.

 

[CBJx614]

Here's the difference - Clarkson will be a huge liability in any trade. Hartnell could be viewed as an asset (at least this year).

So if base trade was Ry Jo for Jones, then suddenly the CBJ comes back and tries to throw in Clarkson, then the Preds would ask for a lot more - something like Ry Jo, 1st round pick + Clarkson for Jones plus likely a salary dump back.

I would suspect you could trade Hartnell for much more by himself. Don't know if he will get a 1st round pick but likely a high end prospect who we could control for a few seasons.

Maybe not a first, but they might want a 2nd or 3rd. Or possibly a equally valued prospect or roster player.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I don't see Hartnell as a real high risk of dropping off a cliff in his performance for a few years. He's got 3 years left on his deal and the last year is only $3 million cash ($4.75m AAV).

Hartnell is not overly dependent on speed to perform well. While losing a half step is possible over the next few years, his half step is nothing compared to a speedster. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect 50 points from him for the next 2 years after this. If he declines in the last year of his deal, it's almost in the "so what" category. Most any player over 35 will probably not be a top performer in the last year of his contract.

I think he'll be a very valuable commodity come deadline time, although I hope he remains a CBJ. If Jarmo accepts anything less than a low first rounder for him, then he will have gotten fleeced.

 

[EDM]

If we are dumping vet salary, Tyutin is the salary to dump. If we get the prime d-man for RyJo, Tyutin has no further use here.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

If we are dumping vet salary, Tyutin is the salary to dump. If we get the prime d-man for RyJo, Tyutin has no further use here.

Nor anywhere else

Howson revisionists will forget about Toots

 

[pete goegan]

I don't see Hartnell as a real high risk of dropping off a cliff in his performance for a few years. He's got 3 years left on his deal and the last year is only $3 million cash ($4.75m AAV).

Hartnell is not overly dependent on speed to perform well. While losing a half step is possible over the next few years, his half step is nothing compared to a speedster. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect 50 points from him for the next 2 years after this. If he declines in the last year of his deal, it's almost in the "so what" category. Most any player over 35 will probably not be a top performer in the last year of his contract.

I think he'll be a very valuable commodity come deadline time, although I hope he remains a CBJ. If Jarmo accepts anything less than a low first rounder for him, then he will have gotten fleeced.

We agree again!

 

[JacketsDavid]

I don't see Hartnell as a real high risk of dropping off a cliff in his performance for a few years. He's got 3 years left on his deal and the last year is only $3 million cash ($4.75m AAV).

Hartnell is not overly dependent on speed to perform well. While losing a half step is possible over the next few years, his half step is nothing compared to a speedster. I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect 50 points from him for the next 2 years after this. If he declines in the last year of his deal, it's almost in the "so what" category. Most any player over 35 will probably not be a top performer in the last year of his contract.

I think he'll be a very valuable commodity come deadline time, although I hope he remains a CBJ. If Jarmo accepts anything less than a low first rounder for him, then he will have gotten fleeced.

I agree with what you said, but:

We are not close to contending. Even with a top 3 pick next season, Bob gets his groin fixed, Ry Jo decides he better show up for his contract year, etc. We're not going to jump from among the worst to a contender.

Hartnell can bring us something valuable (this season) - honestly we can talk about how good of a player he is, but fact is the team is a mess with him, we'll not be competing any time soon why not trade him?

If Hartnell was the leader of the team, and if the team responded to him and he was performing then I would have a hard time moving him, but given the circumstances I think you have to shop him.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

If you can get a good return for Hartnell, they should trade him. Next year probably isn't going to be a major turnaround

We need assets for the future to continue building this thing. The contending talk was too premature

 

[EDM]

Wow we have written off next year already !!!! Life of a Jacket fan I guess.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Wow we have written off next year already !!!! Life of a Jacket fan I guess.

I think expectations are...tempered.

 

[CBJfan4evr]

If the CBJ ate half of Clarkson's salary that still may not work. I'm not sure if a team can eat bonus's. The team that acquires him might still be responsible for the entire bonus. If you can eat half of Clarkson's bonus's as well that may work and I would do it in a heart beat. No questions asked. I would do it for a 7th round pick in return.

On a side note, the salaries might be similar but there is a one huge difference. Hartnell is productive. You can't put them in the same category. Not to say Hartnell would be in high demand or not, but his value is infinitely higher than Clarkson's. Clarkson would be a non-starter for almost every team.

If the CBJ ate half of Clarkson's salary that still may not work. I'm not sure if a team can eat bonus's. The team that acquires him might still be responsible for the entire bonus. If you can eat half of Clarkson's bonus's as well that may work and I would do it in a heart beat. No questions asked. I would do it for a 7th round pick in return. Yes please... Is it to early for next year's Christmas present?

 

[cslebn]

I was almost wondering with the idea of Joey and Hartnell to Nashville if that wouldn't mean someone like Weber coming back. Weber's cap hit is around 8M.

I would never expect that, but if I'm a GM building a younger team and I believe in the other guys (Josi, Jones, Eckholm, Ellis, etc) adding Joey and Hartnell, who could be productive for a couple more years, might be worth trading the face of franchise to gain depth and youth. I doubt Poile agrees.

 

[Jackets16]

Why in the world would we want Shea? I wouldn't even trade Clarkson for him.

 

[cslebn]

I was just thinking from a cap neutral stand point.

Hartnell has way too much value (and cost) to be used for Jones.

Pretty sure anyone would trade Clarkson for Weber.

 

[Viqsi]

Why in the world would we want Shea? I wouldn't even trade Clarkson for him.

what is this i dont even