RW Jake Virtanen (2014, 6th, VAN) III

[Michael Farkas]

You really can't fix the no hockey sense thing, especially so so late in the overall development arc (i.e. not just pro hockey arc)...at best, you hope he gets a couple of Evander Kane/Chris Stewart flash in the pan seasons where he can just do his streak-and-score nonsense...he's not going to "earn" his way up a lineup card in any significant any time soon...

You draft these zero hockey sense guys and you get this 99.9% of the time. It's the most important trait, hardest to read but you can't just ignore it for physical prowess...

 

[BDizzle*]

Whether he's a top prospect or not seems quite insignificant in the matter if you ask me. After all, his game is more than just scoring goals. Which is why he have the potential to make it as at least a bottom 6 forward in the NHL.

And it's also 2 assists in 7 AHL-games this season. Not quite as bad as you made it out to be.

What did he bring to the 3rd or 4th line in Vancouver this season? It seems like he either has no desire to play or simply just isn't good enough. It has been confirmed injury is not a cause.

I can understand he may be "mature for his age", but has he even played physical this year? In the 5 games I watched, I never noticed him once. I would expect a top prospect playing 4th line minutes to make every second count and throw a hit, or start a scrap. But nope, nothing. Why do you think he can be an effective bottom 6 player?

In terms of his lack of production in the AHL, that should be even more of a concern. I just don't see him making any impact. I know I don't watch him religiously, but in all the games I have watched over the years (including Junior and WJHC), which is about 30 in total, I have never once been impressed.

 

[Eternalize]

What did he bring to the 3rd or 4th line in Vancouver this season? It seems like he either has no desire to play or simply just isn't good enough. It has been confirmed injury is not a cause.

I can understand he may be "mature for his age", but has he even played physical this year? In the 5 games I watched, I never noticed him once. I would expect a top prospect playing 4th line minutes to make every second count and throw a hit, or start a scrap. But nope, nothing. Why do you think he can be an effective bottom 6 player?

In terms of his lack of production in the AHL, that should be even more of a concern. I just don't see him making any impact. I know I don't watch him religiously, but in all the games I have watched over the years (including Junior and WJHC), which is about 30 in total, I have never once been impressed.

The guy is 20 years old. Again, TWENTY. He was drafted 2 years ago. Why would it be fair to write him off already? Hmm? And as i said, he's physically dominant when he WANTS to be. I said that i think that he's been struggling this year, that's hardly any news for anyone. As i said, he have the tools to be an effective bottom 6 player. That's undeniable. Big, strong, great skater. Have thrown some pretty crazy hits. Used to have a great shot. As long as you play the game the right way, and have the tools, you should be a bottom 6 player. I don't know how you can look at Virtanen and say that there's NO WAY that he will be a bottom6 player in the NHL. Based solely on a bad start to the year and a not so impressive post-draft year. All this is coming from a guy who was never a big fan of the Virtanen-pick (me).

 

[Aceboogie]

Yeah i agree that it's not the best situation for him, and he has obviously been struggling. Still, i think a lot of people have to wait and see before they start to label him as a bust. The season just begun, and this would have been his 1st season as a pro if he didn't crack the NHL-roster last year (which he shouldn't have done IMO).

I think people are just seeing a habit of him underperforming. So its not just 1 bad season its now 3 years in a row. Plus to exacerbate that- Canucks management is worst thing for him

So some people can see JV as actually being a poor prospect who had one really hot year in his draft year (maybe absurd shooting %) and then returned to normal and this is him. I wonder where he was ranked going in the START of his draft year. He went from 16 goals to 45 and that shot him up to 6th overall and in top 10 rankings- but could have been just a really lucky year. Even then he only had 71 points in 71 games with a shockingly low 26 assists

Others can see him as a top 10 pick with big upside due to tools whos just working it out and developing. Who knows- hes a young prospect. But people calling him a potential bust or questioning upside as more than a depth player do have a case. But noone can say hes a definite bust

 

[BDizzle*]

The guy is 20 years old. Again, TWENTY. He was drafted 2 years ago. Why would it be fair to write him off already? Hmm? And as i said, he's physically dominant when he WANTS to be. I said that i think that he's been struggling this year, that's hardly any news for anyone. As i said, he have the tools to be an effective bottom 6 player. That's undeniable. Big, strong, great skater. Have thrown some pretty crazy hits. Used to have a great shot. As long as you play the game the right way, and have the tools, you should be a bottom 6 player. I don't know how you can look at Virtanen and say that there's NO WAY that he will be a bottom6 player in the NHL. Based solely on a bad start to the year and a not so impressive post-draft year. All this is coming from a guy who was never a big fan of the Virtanen-pick (me).

Sorry if I upset you and your views, but I just don't think Virtanen is a good player or prospect anymore. On most teams I anticipate he would probably be around their 4th or 5th best prospect. I didn't say there is "NO WAY" he will be a bottom 6 player, I said I just don't see it. He has never done anything thus far in all my viewings to leave me impressed. Obviously he could have a major epiphany and turn his game and attitude around, but at this moment in time he is trending in the wrong direction. I also don't think his defensive IQ is good enough for a bottom 6 role, but I know defense is something that can be taught. All in all, perhaps he can turn out to be an NHLer one day, but for the foreseeable future I just don't see it. In my opinion his best bet for success is to have a change of scenery, as I don't see the situation improving in Vancouver.

By the way, I do think if he manages to be a solid contributory bottom 6 player, that would be a pretty amazing thing considering where he stands at the moment. His NHL totals are quite underwhelming for a 6OA player with 14 in 65 games played. His AHL stats aren't anything better. I don't see the heart of intensity that many Vancouver fans suggest he has, or his "intangibles". He can hardly play on the 4th line of one of the worst NHL teams and was often scratched. He may bounce around and stick around the league due to draft pedigree, but I would be very surprised if he ever became anything other than a bottom 6 placeholder.

Don't mean to offend you or anything, but try Reading Comprehension 101. All of my points are clearly indicated as MY opinion.

 

[Eternalize]

Sorry if I upset you and your views, but I just don't think Virtanen is a good player or prospect anymore. On most teams I anticipate he would probably be around their 4th or 5th best prospect. I didn't say there is "NO WAY" he will be a bottom 6 player, I said I just don't see it. He has never done anything thus far in all my viewings to leave me impressed. Obviously he could have a major epiphany and turn his game and attitude around, but at this moment in time he is trending in the wrong direction. I also don't think his defensive IQ is good enough for a bottom 6 role, but I know defense is something that can be taught. All in all, perhaps he can turn out to be an NHLer one day, but for the foreseeable future I just don't see it. In my opinion his best bet for success is to have a change of scenery, as I don't see the situation improving in Vancouver.

By the way, I do think if he manages to be a solid contributory bottom 6 player, that would be a pretty amazing thing considering where he stands at the moment. His NHL totals are quite underwhelming for a 6OA player with 14 in 65 games played. His AHL stats aren't anything better. I don't see the heart of intensity that many Vancouver fans suggest he has, or his "intangibles". He can hardly play on the 4th line of one of the worst NHL teams and was often scratched. He may bounce around and stick around the league due to draft pedigree, but I would be very surprised if he ever became anything other than a bottom 6 placeholder.

Don't mean to offend you or anything, but try Reading Comprehension 101. All of my points are clearly indicated as MY opinion.

You like many others overlook the fact that the guy was selected 6th overall. It seems like a lot of people expect those guys to end up being absolute superstars, even though there's several cases of highly drafted players who busted FOR REAL (not ending up being a fulltime NHLer at all). If Virtanen was drafted in the teens, i think most people would think that he's a pretty good prospect with potential. He's a pretty unique prospect. But now since he was drafted 6th overall, people expect him to set the whole NHL on fire, especially when guys like Nylander and Ehlers who were taken behind him are producing.

I wouldn't say that Virtanen was great last year, or even good. But considering how bad the Canucks were last year especially offensively, 7 goals and 13 points in 55 games is decent IMO considering that he wasn't ready. Those numbers would have been more concerning if they belonged to Ehlers or Nylander, because those guys are pure offense, and if they don't make it as top6 players, they aren't making the NHL.

 

[BDizzle*]

You like many others overlook the fact that the guy was selected 6th overall. It seems like a lot of people expect those guys to end up being absolute superstars, even though there's several cases of highly drafted players who busted FOR REAL (not ending up being a fulltime NHLer at all). If Virtanen was drafted in the teens, i think most people would think that he's a pretty good prospect with potential. He's a pretty unique prospect. But now since he was drafted 6th overall, people expect him to set the whole NHL on fire, especially when guys like Nylander and Ehlers who were taken behind him are producing.

I wouldn't say that Virtanen was great last year, or even good. But considering how bad the Canucks were last year especially offensively, 7 goals and 13 points in 55 games is decent IMO considering that he wasn't ready. Those numbers would have been more concerning if they belonged to Ehlers or Nylander, because those guys are pure offense, and if they don't make it as top6 players, they aren't making the NHL.

As much as I respect your post and your well constructed thoughts, it has less to do with being a 6 OA pick than it does in regards to his overall performance since being drafted. His draft + 1 year definitely disappointed and some could argue even regressed. Since being drafted, he has continued to underwhelm me. He seems to be trending in the wrong direction. This can happen to many prospects regardless of where they are drafted, but it is more concerning for those top draft picks as you do expect a higher level of impact. Regardless of where he was drafted, in all of my 30ish viewings I have never been left that impressed. All players who make the NHL need to develop from junior, and more so for those who have a longer road to climb (ie. later draft pick). Jake probably has a larger leash than most prospects due to his draft status, but even if he was a 4th rounder; my thoughts would be the same due to his underwhelming development since draft day.

I am not saying he is incapable of rebounding, but I just don't see it. He is a young player who is struggling and has to do some soul searching to find his way. I just don't feel like he has a good enough head on his shoulders to come to that realization. Obviously I don't know the kid personally, but I think his ego plays into a negative effect (local top-10 draft pick being praised since an early age etc etc). I feel like he has entitlement issues and expects to be given top minutes without working for it. Many Vancouver fans agreed at the time Virtanen wasn't the pick to be made at 6 OA, and it is a wide spread rumour that even the scouts didn't want him; but rather management did based on the storyline of selecting a local-kid with "intangibles".

I hope I am wrong, I really do as I never want to see a player bust. But for as many prospects that turn it around years after being drafted, there appears to be a higher number of them that don't . And based on my viewings, I don't see him turning it around anytime soon; unless as suggested, a trade occurs and he can blossom in a different environment.

 

[93LEAFS]

You like many others overlook the fact that the guy was selected 6th overall. It seems like a lot of people expect those guys to end up being absolute superstars, even though there's several cases of highly drafted players who busted FOR REAL (not ending up being a fulltime NHLer at all). If Virtanen was drafted in the teens, i think most people would think that he's a pretty good prospect with potential. He's a pretty unique prospect. But now since he was drafted 6th overall, people expect him to set the whole NHL on fire, especially when guys like Nylander and Ehlers who were taken behind him are producing.

I wouldn't say that Virtanen was great last year, or even good. But considering how bad the Canucks were last year especially offensively, 7 goals and 13 points in 55 games is decent IMO considering that he wasn't ready. Those numbers would have been more concerning if they belonged to Ehlers or Nylander, because those guys are pure offense, and if they don't make it as top6 players, they aren't making the NHL.

You don't draft kids to be 3rd line grinders or 4th line energy players 6th overall. And outside of extreme exceptions, most 6 overall picks tend to carve out decent careers. Of the 6th overall picks in the 2010's, the only one who is tracking worse than Virtanen is Brett Connolly (who can easily be deemed a bust at this point, especially from a Tampa perspective). Monahan and Lindholm are legitimate top line players, Zibanejad is a legitimate top 6 player, and Tkachuk and Zacha look more impressive at the moment despite being younger.

Outside of the hockey IQ questions, there seems to be enough smoke around personality issues that you would have to think something is up. He appears to of shown up out of shape to camp again and it seems players on his own team questioned his commitment at the end of last year.

Sadly for Canuck fans, he seems tracking to be this generation's Chad Kilger rather than a legitimate top 6 power forward. Obviously, the Canucks have not put him in a position to succeed, so it is hard to attribute the varying degrees of responsibility for his lack of development. Yes, you can also question the Dal Colle pick ahead of him and Hadyn Fleury directly after, but the key thing is, there was a lot of talent drafted very close to Virtanen who you would clearly take over him less than 3 years later.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Lol are you for real? The guy turned 20 just a couple of months ago. He was drafted 2 years ago. And now he's a bust? You sound like your typical leafs fan during the WJC last year, probably have some hard feelings towards him yet, how embarassing. He's a great skater, physically very mature for his age and dominant physically when he wants to. The least he could do is to just "learn" to play the system and dump and chase. If he does that, he should be a 3rd liner long term. Literally no reason for him to not make the NHL, that's one of the reasons why he was picked as high as 6th overall. He was considered a "safe" pick that was going to make the NHL.

The Canucks get what they deserve for picking a "safe" player at 6 with players like Ehlers and Nylander still on the board.

I also don't know what is safe about drafting players who rely on raw athleticism to dominate junior hockey and have at best average IQ.

 

[Michael Farkas]

It's the polar opposite of safe.

 

[Eternalize]

You don't draft kids to be 3rd line grinders or 4th line energy players 6th overall. And outside of extreme exceptions, most 6 overall picks tend to carve out decent careers. Of the 6th overall picks in the 2010's, the only one who is tracking worse than Virtanen is Brett Connolly (who can easily be deemed a bust at this point, especially from a Tampa perspective). Monahan and Lindholm are legitimate top line players, Zibanejad is a legitimate top 6 player, and Tkachuk and Zacha look more impressive at the moment despite being younger.

Outside of the hockey IQ questions, there seems to be enough smoke around personality issues that you would have to think something is up. He appears to of shown up out of shape to camp again and it seems players on his own team questioned his commitment at the end of last year.

Sadly for Canuck fans, he seems tracking to be this generation's Chad Kilger rather than a legitimate top 6 power forward. Obviously, the Canucks have not put him in a position to succeed, so it is hard to attribute the varying degrees of responsibility for his lack of development. Yes, you can also question the Dal Colle pick ahead of him and Hadyn Fleury directly after, but the key thing is, there was a lot of talent drafted very close to Virtanen who you would clearly take over him less than 3 years later.

As i said, it's not like i wanted Virtanen at 6th overall either. But it's not exactly his fault that management screw up and decided to pick him at that spot. I also said that although underwhelming if he ended up being a good 3rd liner, that would be "ok". Ofc it would look bad if you compare him to the guys picked after him (in a realistic range) if they end up being top6ers, but again there have been picks that ended up being less.

I'm very aware of the players that have been picked 6th overall the last few years, but further than those you mentioned, you're going to see more players that didn't end up being anything at all. And not just speaking of players selected specifically 6th overall. A lot of players selected top10 didn't end up being much.

The Canucks get what they deserve for picking a "safe" player at 6 with players like Ehlers and Nylander still on the board.

I also don't know what is safe about drafting players who rely on raw athleticism to dominate junior hockey and have at best average IQ.

Pretty sure you know what it means when a player is considered a safe pick. And as i have said mulitiple times, i wasn't a fan of the pick.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Pretty sure you know what it means when a player is considered a safe pick. And as i have said mulitiple times, i wasn't a fan of the pick.

Explain it to me then? What is safe about picking low IQ players who rely on athleticism?

 

[Eternalize]

Explain it to me then? What is safe about picking low IQ players who rely on athleticism?

First off you're blowing the whole "low IQ" out of proportion. In his draft year, he was a good offensive player that scored 40 goals. If you compare Virtanens hockey IQ with Ehlers and Nylanders IQ, he obviously wasn't on the same level in that regard. And his hockey IQ might not have been his greatest strength. But he wasn't outright stupid like you make it sound.

Him "relying" on athleticism is the reason why he was considered a safe pick. Nylander and Ehlers aren't going to crack your bottom 6 if they weren't good enough to be in your top6. And as i have said earlier, i don't see how Virtanen wouldn't crack a bottom6 in the future.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

First off you're blowing the whole "low IQ" out of proportion. In his draft year, he was a good offensive player that scored 40 goals. If you compare Virtanens hockey IQ with Ehlers and Nylanders IQ, he obviously wasn't on the same level in that regard. And his hockey IQ might not have been his greatest strength. But he wasn't outright stupid like you make it sound.

Nobody said he was outright stupid, just that he had low IQ for a highly ranked prospect. And scoring 40 goals has no bearing on that.

Him "relying" on athleticism is the reason why he was considered a safe pick. Nylander and Ehlers aren't going to crack your bottom 6 if they weren't good enough to be in your top6. And as i have said earlier, i don't see how Virtanen wouldn't crack a bottom6 in the future.

Why on earth would guys like Nylander and Ehlers not be able to crack a bottom 6? This isn't the dead puck era where you have to be big and physical to play in a bottom 6 role. That's caveman thinking. I would take smart, speedy skilled players in my bottom 6 all day. That's called depth, it's what just won the Pens the cup.

Virtanen at 6 was an awful, awful pick. Passing on smart, skilled players for athletic lower IQ players is the exact opposite of safe. It's stupid.

As for Virtanen becoming a bottom 6 NHLer, he's got a long way to go, considering he can't even break into the bottom 6 on the Canucks.

 

[Eternalize]

Nobody said he was outright stupid, just that he had low IQ for a highly ranked prospect. And scoring 40 goals has no bearing on that.



Why on earth would guys like Nylander and Ehlers not be able to crack a bottom 6? This isn't the dead puck era where you have to be big and physical to play in a bottom 6 role. That's caveman thinking. I would take smart, speedy skilled players in my bottom 6 all day. That's called depth, it's what just won the Pens the cup.

Virtanen at 6 was an awful, awful pick. Passing on smart, skilled players for athletic lower IQ players is the exact opposite of safe. It's stupid.

As for Virtanen becoming a bottom 6 NHLer, he's got a long way to go, considering he can't even break into the bottom 6 on the Canucks.

How does scoring 45 goals have no bearing on that?? Yeah he probably scored all 45 goals by just crashing the net after an end to end rush. Didn't score one single goal by being in the right place.

Because i consider them pure offensive players. Not everyone is fitted to play anywhere in the line-up. Yes they CAN play in a bottom6 role, but they're not going to thrive there. That's my opinion and i'm not sure how that's "caveman thinking" to you just because you disagree. Would rather call it logical. Neither Ehlers or Nylander plays a bottom6 type of game. It doesn't have anything to do with their size if you believe that. 1 or 2 exceptions doesn't change that.

There's a bunch of very skilled players over in Europe, why aren't they in the NHL over those grinders in the bottom6 if they are so much better?

Virtanen was considered a power forward, and those are the hardest player type to judge. Because like it or not, power forwards will rely on their athleticism, that's what makes them a power forward. Sounds pretty stupid to me to basically claim that athleticism doesn't hold any significant importance.

 

[Szechwan]

Boy you guys really don't like this kid huh? Odd to see everyone so fixated, even if he does bust I'm not sure why there's so much focus on him specifically.
It happens. Many top picks don't work out.

 

[Dr Black]

I've personally never seen a prospect this badly criticized "by other fans" really. I don't get this, it's like they want to make us feel bad about a wasted pick maybe? when in the past, many top 10 picks don't work out, Nikita Filatov 6th overall, Bret Connolly 6thoverall, Rico Fata 5th overall, Daniek Tkachuk, Alex Burmistrov 10th, Nail Yakupov 1st overall. Scott Glenni (8th overall) zach Hamil (8th overall)

Personally, I hope does well. If not, there's nothing we can do, just like the other players I just mentioned, sometimes it just doesn't work out for whatever reason. It's like beating a dead horse right now, and this is currently Vancouver's problem, no one elses.

1 5 NY Islanders Michael Dal Colle L Oshawa Generals [OHL]
1 6 Vancouver Jake Virtanen R Calgary Hitmen [WHL] 65 7 7 14 47 2016-17
1 7 Carolina Haydn Fleury

.... its not like Michael Dal Colle or Haydrn Fleury is turning heads right now too....... you guys want to comment on (missing on out Nylander, those were the other 3 teams that passed up on Nylander/Ehlers.

That is the ONLY consolation here for Canuck fans. Micheal Del Colle and Haydn Fluery look like busts as well.

He is still young. It is still too early to push the panic buttons. Still, this isn't looking good at this point.

I hope I'm proven wrong on this, but it looks like Canuck fans may be swallowing that black pill sooner rather than later in terms of Virtanen.

 

[Aceboogie]

Nobody said he was outright stupid, just that he had low IQ for a highly ranked prospect. And scoring 40 goals has no bearing on that.

I think IQ is overblown and misunderstood on hf. Scoring 45 goals should show that play has hockey IQ. ockey IQ comes in many different forms and knowing where/when to shoot or where to be to score is one.

I dont believe guys like Perry/Carter/Stamkos/Hall etc have this elite play making hockey sense that Giroux/Crosby/Backstrom have. But they are still elite level scorers with great tools and they had the hockey sense when it came to scoring

 

[Aceboogie]

Boy you guys really don't like this kid huh? Odd to see everyone so fixated, even if he does bust I'm not sure why there's so much focus on him specifically.
It happens. Many top picks don't work out.

Top 10 pick of a Canadian team. Especially in a year that saw 4 Canadian teams pick top 10, 3 going right after eachother. Every mispick gets amplified times 10 in that circumstance

However you are right he is tracking like a number of other former top 10 picks. Here are some other let downs/ busts in top 10

2010: Connolly, Gudbranson,:Burmistrov, McIlrath, Nino (let down given position of draft)
2011: Strome, Seimens, Murphy, Bartschi (11,12,1,3 tho) > 2011 was actually a strong top 10
2012: Yak, Reinhart, Dumba, Pouliot
2013: Lindholm, Nichuskin
2014: MDC, Fluery

 

[Circulartheory]

Top 10 pick of a Canadian team. Especially in a year that saw 4 Canadian teams pick top 10, 3 going right after eachother. Every mispick gets amplified times 10 in that circumstance

However you are right he is tracking like a number of other former top 10 picks. Here are some other let downs/ busts in top 10

2010: Connolly, Gudbranson,:Burmistrov, McIlrath, Nino (let down given position of draft)
2011: Strome, Seimens, Murphy, Bartschi (11,12,1,3 tho) > 2011 was actually a strong top 10
2012: Yak, Reinhart, Dumba, Pouliot
2013: Lindholm, Nichuskin
2014: MDC, Fluery

Speaking as a Wild fan, really not sure how a 22-year old defenseman that plays 20 min/game as the 2nd pairing and 2nd unit powerplay on track for around ~25 points is anything but an upwards sign vs letdown...

 

[Icebreakers]

Top 10 pick of a Canadian team. Especially in a year that saw 4 Canadian teams pick top 10, 3 going right after eachother. Every mispick gets amplified times 10 in that circumstance

However you are right he is tracking like a number of other former top 10 picks. Here are some other let downs/ busts in top 10

2010: Connolly, Gudbranson,:Burmistrov, McIlrath, Nino (let down given position of draft)
2011: Strome, Seimens, Murphy, Bartschi (11,12,1,3 tho) > 2011 was actually a strong top 10
2012: Yak, Reinhart, Dumba, Pouliot
2013: Lindholm, Nichuskin
2014: MDC, Fluery

Baertschi was drafted 13th. Thats not even a mispick.

 

[King In The North]

Baertschi was drafted 13th. Thats not even a mispick.

He was more a victim of (a lot) of hype in his post-draft Winterhawks years

 

[Aceboogie]

Baertschi was drafted 13th. Thats not even a mispick.

Let down. 13th overall is just outside top and he was hyped to no end. Virtanen was in universally top 10 rankings as well. Button was considered a nut for having him as a 2nd rounder. He was going top 10 and a ton of the stuff now is revisionist history

Ill criticize that pick based on the 2 players behind him available at the time, and also the development since draft by both him (doesnt seem like a motivate dplayer) and management. However the pick inside top 10 is justified

He could have easily been a Schiefle/H.Lindholm where people cricitized the pick inside top 10 but then they went on to be great player

RyJo pick was considered major reach at the time, he went on to be good

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How does scoring 45 goals have no bearing on that?? Yeah he probably scored all 45 goals by just crashing the net after an end to end rush. Didn't score one single goal by being in the right place.

Do you really think scoring goals in junior (a bunch off the rush) is necessarily indicative of hockey IQ?

Because i consider them pure offensive players. Not everyone is fitted to play anywhere in the line-up. Yes they CAN play in a bottom6 role, but they're not going to thrive there. That's my opinion and i'm not sure how that's "caveman thinking" to you just because you disagree. Would rather call it logical. Neither Ehlers or Nylander plays a bottom6 type of game. It doesn't have anything to do with their size if you believe that. 1 or 2 exceptions doesn't change that.

What about Phil Kessel? Is he a 'bottom 6' style player. What exactly is a bottom 6 role in today's NHL? Why can't pure offensive players play in a bottom 6 role? It's much easier to teach a guy to forecheck than it is to teach him how to create offense.

There's a bunch of very skilled players over in Europe, why aren't they in the NHL over those grinders in the bottom6 if they are so much better?

Well firstly, bottom 6 minutes in the NHL isn't all that enticing for guys to uproot their life and move to North America. Secondly, a lot of those skilled guys aren't tremendous skaters, which is a huge part of today's game.

Virtanen was considered a power forward, and those are the hardest player type to judge. Because like it or not, power forwards will rely on their athleticism, that's what makes them a power forward.

So you're saying that drafting power forwards involves more uncertainty because they are so hard to judge? Essentially agreeing with me that he was not a safe pick?

I wouldn't waste a 6th overall pick on a player that has lower ceiling and a good chance of busting.

Sounds pretty stupid to me to basically claim that athleticism doesn't hold any significant importance.

Where did I make that claim? Athleticism is extremely important, but does nothing for you if you can't think the game like a top 6 player.

Keep defending the logic behind the pick, but it was a terrible decision in pretty much every way.

 

[Eternalize]

Do you really think scoring goals in junior (a bunch off the rush) is necessarily indicative of hockey IQ?



What about Phil Kessel? Is he a 'bottom 6' style player. What exactly is a bottom 6 role in today's NHL? Why can't pure offensive players play in a bottom 6 role? It's much easier to teach a guy to forecheck than it is to teach him how to create offense.



Well firstly, bottom 6 minutes in the NHL isn't all that enticing for guys to uproot their life and move to North America. Secondly, a lot of those skilled guys aren't tremendous skaters, which is a huge part of today's game.



So you're saying that drafting power forwards involves more uncertainty because they are so hard to judge? Essentially agreeing with me that he was not a safe pick?

I wouldn't waste a 6th overall pick on a player that has lower ceiling and a good chance of busting.



Where did I make that claim? Athleticism is extremely important, but does nothing for you if you can't think the game like a top 6 player.

Keep defending the logic behind the pick, but it was a terrible decision in pretty much every way.

Well clearly you don't. No point in me trying to argue with you. You obviously doesn't need any sorts of smarts to score goals.

Sorry to say that the game isn't all about offense.

That's a lie and you know it. Seriously? You obviously doesn't have an answer for that one.

No because he was still considered a safe pick? He just wasn't as likely to reach his top potential as maybe some other guys. But he was still likely to make the NHL. If you have paid attention to any highly regarded power forward prospects over the years you'd know this.

Clearly you don't value athleticism all that much. If you read half of the posts that i've posted last page you'd know that i wasn't a fan of the pick, so no need to constantly make it sound like i was.