RW Eeli Tolvanen Milwaukee Admirals, AHL (2017, 30th, NSH) Part II

[IAM]

How so?

Well Miro is D and Eeli is LW? It's hard to compare them to each other. What comes into the value is how well they can fill their spot in the team. I see bright future for both of them.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Nah. At the end of both careers, Tolvanen will be better than Laine

To each his own. However, I would rather have Laine exclusively play on the PP for my team than have Tolvanen. I honestly doubt Tolvanen will have a single 40 goal season in his career and Laine will probably hit that mark nearly every full season he plays. I understand having hype around a prospect, but Laine has the potential to be one of the best goal scorers of all time and is already a top 3 goal scorer in the NHL! I am a Laine fan-boy so maybe I'm basised, but from what I've heard, people expect Tolvanen to be like a 60 point guy. Do you think he'll be better than that projection?

 

[jalperi]

To each his own. However, I would rather have Laine exclusively play on the PP for my team than have Tolvanen. I honestly doubt Tolvanen will have a single 40 goal season in his career and Laine will probably hit that mark nearly every full season he plays. I understand having hype around a prospect, but Laine has the potential to be one of the best goal scorers of all time and is already a top 3 goal scorer in the NHL! I am a Laine fan-boy so maybe I'm basised, but from what I've heard, people expect Tolvanen to be like a 60 point guy. Do you think he'll be better than that projection?

I think Tolvanen will score 40 or + on 3 to 6 season, but Laine is be better.

 

[42]

I think Tolvanen will score 40 or + on 3 to 6 season, but Laine is be better.

I seriously doubt that.

Last year, there were 3 40+ goal scorers.
In 2015, there were 4.
In 2014, there were 3.
In 2013, there were 3.

and so on. Only the best of the best can score 40+ and Tolvanen isn't even close to in the same breath as the likes of Ovechkin, Kane, Matthews, Kucherov, Stamkos, which are some of the very few who have scored 40+.

 

[BB88]

I think Tolvanen will score 40 or + on 3 to 6 season, but Laine is be better.

That's really, really, really difficult. Just because Laine was able to do it doesn't make it easy.

Well Miro is D and Eeli is LW? It's hard to compare them to each other. What comes into the value is how well they can fill their spot in the team. I see bright future for both of them.

That's fair, I was afraid you were going to say Heiskanen Liiga season hasn't been that impressive.

 

[Albatros]

Though Heiskanen is the kind of player that can excel in any team, a not-very-poor man's Lidström.

 

[Ippenator]

I seriously doubt that.

Last year, there were 3 40+ goal scorers.
In 2015, there were 4.
In 2014, there were 3.
In 2013, there were 3.

and so on. Only the best of the best can score 40+ and Tolvanen isn't even close to in the same breath as the likes of Ovechkin, Kane, Matthews, Kucherov, Stamkos, which are some of the very few who have scored 40+.

I think you are quite much underestimating Tolvanen. He has an amazing shot really (it seriously is not very much worse than Laine’s, not as hard, but still surprisingly close otherwise), but in addition to that he has also extremely high hockey IQ, very good hands and passing skills and he is even a very good skater. Also he is pretty strong for his size and can do surprisingly well in board battles against clearly bigger players than himself.

I have not seen a more offensively gifted Finnish talent since Selänne times, with the exception of Laine and Aho. And he really is not even that much behind Laine or Aho. Just keep on watching him play and you will see...

 

[Ippenator]

I seriously doubt that.

Last year, there were 3 40+ goal scorers.
In 2015, there were 4.
In 2014, there were 3.
In 2013, there were 3.

and so on. Only the best of the best can score 40+ and Tolvanen isn't even close to in the same breath as the likes of Ovechkin, Kane, Matthews, Kucherov, Stamkos, which are some of the very few who have scored 40+.

Don’t you btw realize that Tolvanen is still only 18 years old, and will be still developing a lot. And now that he is only 18 you should compare him to those players that you mentioned when they were 18 and not to what they are right now as physically peaked and very experienced superstars. Compare to the 18 year old Kucherov for example and Tolvanen is pretty clearly the more impressive player.

 

[CherryToke]

That was a great goal but why did the opposing team just let him skate around for like 20 seconds? And the goalie was way out of position on the wrap around.

because it's the KHL?

 

[42]

Don’t you btw realize that Tolvanen is still only 18 years old, and will be still developing a lot. And now that he is only 18 you should compare him to those players that you mentioned when they were 18 and not to what they are right now as physically peaked and very experienced superstars. Compare to the 18 year old Kucherov for example and Tolvanen is pretty clearly the more impressive player.

And you're assuming his development will continue on a linear trajectory and that he'll be able to adapt to NHL hockey and he'll be able to push himself into the upper echelon of NHL talent? Based on what, one KHL season? I would bet a large amount of money against Tolvanen ever scoring 40 goals in an NHL season. I think even his biggest fans right now should be cautiously optimistic for 30.

 

[42]

because it's the KHL?

Yeah, that goal likely does not happen in NHL.

 

[Ippenator]

And you're assuming his development will continue on a linear trajectory and that he'll be able to adapt to NHL hockey and he'll be able to push himself into the upper echelon of NHL talent? Based on what, one KHL season? I would bet a large amount of money against Tolvanen ever scoring 40 goals in an NHL season. I think even his biggest fans right now should be cautiously optimistic for 30.

You will be wrong. Just watch and see...

 

[Ippenator]

And you're assuming his development will continue on a linear trajectory and that he'll be able to adapt to NHL hockey and he'll be able to push himself into the upper echelon of NHL talent? Based on what, one KHL season? I would bet a large amount of money against Tolvanen ever scoring 40 goals in an NHL season. I think even his biggest fans right now should be cautiously optimistic for 30.

Not constantly linear, but in two or three years he will absolutely for sure be a much better and physically more developed player than he is now. And with the amazing talent that he has, it will be a very lethal combination even in the NHL.

 

[42]

You will be wrong. Just watch and see...

I've watched him. Highly unlikely he sniffs 40 goals. He might score 30 a couple of seasons, if he adapts well to NHL.

 

[Ippenator]

I've watched him. Highly unlikely he sniffs 40 goals. He might score 30 a couple of seasons, if he adapts well to NHL.

I guess you were one of those whom doubted that Laine would do as well in the NHL as he has done already.

 

[Ippenator]

I've watched him. Highly unlikely he sniffs 40 goals. He might score 30 a couple of seasons, if he adapts well to NHL.

What games did you se him play? And how many games approximately?

 

[42]

What games did you se him play? And how many games approximately?

WJs, Olympics plus highlights of many of his points in KHL. From what I've seen, I think he will transition nicely to NHL and see him as a 30-30 player in his prime. I haven't seen anything in his game to indicate he will score 40 in NHL, i.e. become one of the very elite NHL goal scorers.

 

[Ippenator]

WJs, Olympics plus highlights of many of his points in KHL. From what I've seen, I think he will transition nicely to NHL and see him as a 30-30 player in his prime. I haven't seen anything in his game to indicate he will score 40 in NHL, i.e. become one of the very elite NHL goal scorers.

And how did you predict Laine to do in the NHL? Honestly?

 

[paragon]

There's a zero percent chance he will score 40 goals in the NHL. It's just so rare these days. Add that to the fact that he will be playing for a franchise that has never had anyone score more than 33 goals. It's just not gonna happen.

And btw I'm a Finn and I hope the best for Tolvanen. I'm just not delusional enough to make those claims when it's not even 100% sure he can make it in the NHL. Plenty of people were proclaiming that Puljujärvi will score 90 points with McDavid and look at him now. For the record I believe Tolvanen will be an impact player in the NHL.

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

In my opinion Tolvanen is a fairly safe bet to become a regular ~30 goal scorer. 40 is possible if he gets the right linemates and has a great year. He is not a Laine-level scorer, but his shot and ability to find space for it make him a serious threat.

 

[blindpass]

I'm looking forward to pages and pages of more idle speculation... /s

 

[42]

I guess you were one of those whom doubted that Laine would do as well in the NHL as he has done already.

Nope. I always saw the star potential in Laine but so did everyone else. There was a reason he was in the discussion for 1OA. Laine was as a prospect at equivalent age to Tolvanen much better than Tolvanen. And of course Laine made the NHL right away immediately becoming a star. Laine >> Tolvanen.

 

[ezcreepin]

And how did you predict Laine to do in the NHL? Honestly?

If Tolvanen was supposed to be a player who would score 40+ goals, I think he would've went higher in the draft. I think everyone would have put money on Laine scoring at a high clip, last year and this year, because that's what he was touted to do - score goals. No one is saying Tolvanen will be a bad player, but he won't be nearly as effective at scoring as Ovechkin, Laine, Tarasenko, or Kucherov. I think realistically he'll be like a Arvidsson producer, which is still very good for the Preds.

 

[Ippenator]

If Tolvanen was supposed to be a player who would score 40+ goals, I think he would've went higher in the draft. I think everyone would have put money on Laine scoring at a high clip, last year and this year, because that's what he was touted to do - score goals. No one is saying Tolvanen will be a bad player, but he won't be nearly as effective at scoring as Ovechkin, Laine, Tarasenko, or Kucherov. I think realistically he'll be like a Arvidsson producer, which is still very good for the Preds.

And how do you think it went with players like Benn, Zetterberg, Datsyuk etc.? The truth is that the scouts are always lost with some players. In the last draft one of these players was Tolvanen. Tolvanen has already a so much better shot than Arvidsson, that I can very easily see him scoring better than Arvidsson in the future, as Tolvanen has also excellent hockey IQ, great hands and is also a very good skater. Just absolutely no reason to think why he wouldn’t be a clearly better goalscorer than Arvidsson. And this is still not a knock at Arvidsson, whom has been very impressive for sure. But he just doesn’t have the amazing shot that Tolvanen has, and he is also not a natural goalscorer like Tolvanen is.

I do agree that Laine is going to be still better by some margin, but the margin will not be as big as some of you seem to think. I can really see that some of you don’t clearly have an idea of how good a player Tolvanen is already as an 18 year old. He can still develop a lot too, so I definitely do believe that he will score over 40 goals in his prime. He just is clearly that special talent in my opinion. You don’t have any knowledge for sure that it can’t happen, so maybe you also just watch and see how it will go, instead of claiming for sure already how many goals a super talented player like Tolvanen can’t achieve in his best NHL seasons.

 

[Ippenator]

There's a zero percent chance he will score 40 goals in the NHL. It's just so rare these days. Add that to the fact that he will be playing for a franchise that has never had anyone score more than 33 goals. It's just not gonna happen.

And btw I'm a Finn and I hope the best for Tolvanen. I'm just not delusional enough to make those claims when it's not even 100% sure he can make it in the NHL. Plenty of people were proclaiming that Puljujärvi will score 90 points with McDavid and look at him now. For the record I believe Tolvanen will be an impact player in the NHL.

I at last expected it to be as difficult for Pulju as it has been for him so far. Tolvanen is a much more talented player than Pulju in fact. I have seen that already a very long time. I believe that if Pulju will get somehow still a real grip on playing in the NHL he might at best be a 50-60 point player. But I wouldn’t expect much more than that. I had these kind of estimations on his potential already before I had seen him play in the NHL. Tolvanen has a so much better shot and so much better hockey IQ, that he should be always the clearly better player between those two.

Scouts fail with some players, because most of them don’t understand how to evaluate hockey IQ, which is in fact the most important attribute for defining how great each players will become. Why I have been so high on Laine, Aho and Tolvanen is because of exactly their super high hockey IQ. Not even Laine or Tolvanen’s shot is as important as the super high hockey IQ that they have got. This is why I’m exactly so confident that Tolvanen will be something truly exceptional. His stats in KHL as an 18 year old also prove that he has been a clearly better player at this age than Tarasenko or Kucherov. And we know what those guys have become. Of course it is not sure that Tolvanen would ever be in their class, but it’s also not sure that he couldn’t become that good.

I feel in fact like I’m going through the exactly same debates that I had here already about Laine and Aho and how good they would really be in the NHL. And so far I can say that I have been so right about both of them. I’m pretty sure that the same will happen with Tolvanen.