Russia and Germany oppose NHL offer

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Eisbaerenfan, Jan 12, 2007.

  1. Eisbaerenfan

    Eisbaerenfan Registered User

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    The NHL has offered a new contract to the IIHF with details about a financial compensation in case of player transfers from the european leagues to the NHL. The offer is a blanket sum of $15 Mio which the IIHF is to distrubitute among the 7 top leagues in Europe.

    According to the old contract the NHL had to pay $200000 for every player plus $150000 if the player doesn't play at least 30 NHL games in the respective coming season.

    In 05/06 the NHL had to pay a total of $10.4 Mio for 39 players from Europe that got transfered. This season there have already been over 60 players (not counting Russian players who opposed the old agreement as well).

    The DEL and the RSL are opposing the new offer because now the NHL can sign an unlimited amount of players for the same amount of money. So it's more likely that the Elite European leagues lose more and more players. It's also more likely that more players will not play NHL and instead get sent to the AHL where the level of play is probably lower than in at least 6 european elite leagues.
     
  2. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Master Debater

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    Why does Germany oppose the offer? It's not like they are losing tons of German players to the NHL. There are only seven German players in the NHL (Ehrhoff, Goc, Hecht, Kolzig, Sturm, Schubert and Seidenberg). The DEL doesn't really produce much in NHL talent, so what type of compensation do they really expect to get from the NHL?
     
  3. VladNYC*

    VladNYC* Guest

    GOOD! WE need more countries to do this.
     
  4. Eisbaerenfan

    Eisbaerenfan Registered User

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    I guess the DEL clubs fear that the NHL would sign players with less talent than those you mentioned just because there's the slightest possibility that they might make it. It doesn't matter as much for the NHL teams anymore if they make it to the NHL or play AHL or ECHL for the rest of their lives because it's the same amount of money they pay anyhow. The clubs are just afraid of losing their players.
     
  5. Arastiroth

    Arastiroth Registered User

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    That is an absolutely brutal offer by the NHL, imo. I'm shocked Russian and Germany are the only ones opposing it. Although, perhaps, they are the only ones to voice their opposition already? I can't see a set sum for each year working regardless. European clubs won't feel comfortable with the freedom it will give NHL teams to poach their players, and rightfully so.

    I'm not sure why the NHL is even bringing this into the picture. They really have a fairly good scenario for signing foreign players right now. I can't imagine that a lot of the European countries are happy with the current deal, even if they did accept it. If those countries start feeling like the NHL is trying to screw them over any more, the NHL may find out the Russians aren't the only ones who can be stubborn.
     
  6. Fugu

    Fugu Guest

    Let's look at this from the flip side, because at the moment there is an assumption that the NHL has to pay European clubs or no players come over. What if there were no player transfer agreement? Doesn't that mean that any European player [without a contract?] could choose to sign anywhere he gets an offer? What prevents any player from signing wherever he pleases?

    I know the Europeans like to bring up FIFA but that organization has a lot more pull since all the countries and teams want to be included in international play, and since so many teams are comprised of international players. FIFA is an umbrella organization. There is no equivalent in hockey. And there's a heck of a lot more money in soccer [football] than in pro hockey.
     
  7. Eisbaerenfan

    Eisbaerenfan Registered User

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    The agreement (old and proposed new) grants the NHL the right to sign players even if they are still under contract in Europe I think.
     
  8. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    No but they would lose more non-German players. Their league is loaded with players who are not German, more than any other European League.
     
  9. jkrdevil

    jkrdevil UnRegistered User

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    Do you think the NHL made this offer to try to get Russia to agree to the current deal since it is better than the offer?
     
  10. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley Elasmobranchology-go

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    I don't know about other teams, but the Sharks have Patzold (Kazakhstani, but played in DEL) and Greiss playing in the AHL.

    So there's a few more.

    Greiss is the only Shark player that has transferred post-lockout.

    So, that's four total from/through Germany in the Sharks organization.
     
  11. Pens1566

    Pens1566 Registered User

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    Evgeni Malkin says "Hi" from Pittsburgh. :sarcasm:


    Seriously, if they don't sign some sort of compensation agreement the players will just leave for nothing. Not saying it's right, just saying ....
     
  12. Eisbaerenfan

    Eisbaerenfan Registered User

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    Just to be precise here. He's a "Spätaussiedler" so he's german.
     
  13. Eisbaerenfan

    Eisbaerenfan Registered User

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    If it was like that why would the NHL want an agreement at all? that would be money thrown out the window.
     
  14. steepler

    steepler Registered User

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    Well I imagine the NHL does want to support European hockey and their player development to a certain degree, they just don't want to pay millions for a single player or something like that.

    Also it helps that this type of an agreement lets the NHL to sign players under contract, which simplifies a lot of issues, no lawsuit and such to deal with. But make no mistake about it, deal or no deal top European players who want to be in the NHL will be there regardless, with an IIHF-NHL transfer agreement compensation will be paid, without it nothing will be paid.

    Players will also adjust if a long time goes without an agreement, they will not sign long term deals with their European team and leave for nothing at the end of contracts, so even the point about players leaving with valid contract might be moot after a while and there will not be even any legal recourse.

    Russia could be different in this case, as they might have more leverage to force young players to accept long term contract, but i don't really see this as a possibility for many other European countries as circumstances and laws are different than in Russia.
     
  15. Jazz

    Jazz Registered User

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    I agree with you on both counts.

    The Czechs have already stated that they are not happy with the offer, but won't oppose since 'something is better than nothing'.

    This is another reason why the NHL Marketing department has to get off their butts and do something substantial to increase the demand of their sport in the US (nationally) to get some significant TV money. With this, they can properly subsidize European development.

    If not, things will start to dry up over there, and anything bad for hockey anywhere is inevitably bad for the NHL.
     
  16. Petey21

    Petey21 Registered User

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    This is the part I like the least about this. A contract is a contract. Bettman should know that, considering his background as a lawyer.

    Is there any link about this proposed agreement?
     
  17. Jussi

    Jussi Registered User

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    The biggest rumbling in Finland and Sweden have usually been more about the the signing deadline rather than the money. Our clubs would prefer to have it as early in the off-season as possible which the NHL has opposed. It's easier to fins replacementsa for the players in May-June than August.
     
  18. steepler

    steepler Registered User

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    This is really the only point to the hole agreement from the NHL's perspective, other than the subsidizing part. If contracts can't be broken players without contracts will be able to come for free anyways so what use is there for the agreement for the NHL and what exactly would they be paying 15 million for. It would eccentially just become a subsidy, but why would the NHL make itself contractually obligated to such an amount if there is really no benefit.

    If the NHL wants to subsidize Europe that can be done, but there is really no need to have a contract about it, they could just give whatever they wanted to. The breaking a contract part is the base for this agreement, without it I don't see there being any reason for it.
     
  19. puck57

    puck57 Registered User

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    I was more or less thinking the same thing. This whole thing just seems like a fancy way to help European leagues. Except maybe for the Russsians, who have the most players I really don't see why the other countries really benefit that much or lose that much for that matter. I mean, the players could just come over to NA when they get 18 if they don't sign contracts in their own countries and play for junior and lower leagues over on this side of the ocean unless I am missing something.
     
  20. jkrdevil

    jkrdevil UnRegistered User

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    EDIT Wrong Thread.
     
  21. Blind Gardien

    Blind Gardien nexus of the crisis

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    I was under the impression from the last article that was bandied about (from the Czechs I believe) that the limit for transfers was actually going to be REDUCED from the current level (down to 45 was it?) so that the $15M for a lower maximum number of transfers might actually work out to a (slightly) better deal ($333k per transfer, if the max was reached, say).

    But if instead it's "unlimited", well, I would have thought everybody would automatically oppose that.

    I also wonder about the politics of having the IIHF distribute the whole $15M to the member countries. No idea how that sits, but it would seem to have better potential to be more transparent and equitable if the payments went directly to the leagues... or teams?... the players transfer from. :dunno:
     
  22. Eisbaerenfan

    Eisbaerenfan Registered User

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    It's funny but I didn't find any english source on the matter.
     
  23. Eisbaerenfan

    Eisbaerenfan Registered User

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    Yes but the NHL needs somebody to negotiate with and I don't think they want to negotiate with each league individually because then for example Switzerland gets a better deal than Germany and the whole process starts all over again.
     
  24. Petey21

    Petey21 Registered User

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    But why is it always on the NHL's conditions? What's in it for the European teams who lose their key players who are under contract, and whom the teams have everything planned around? Imagine the Penguins losing Crosby or the Rangers losing Jagr, and getting a couple hundred thousand dollars back and nothing else. How would they be replaced? It's not just about the money, but replacing a couple key players just before the season begins isn't easy.

    Maybe they should have some kind of trade system, where the NHL teams have to send some players to Europe to help replace the players who are leaving their teams even though they're under contract? The European leagues are independent from the NHL and their purpose is not to supply the NHL with players, such as the farm league teams.

    Sometimes it feels like Bettman and the NHL think "Well guys, we might not give you anything back really except for peanuts, but your contribution to hockey in North America is very valuable and we thank you so much for supplying us with players, so thank you. You'll get a little bit of money and especially the honors for doing so, so thanks again."
     
  25. Muscle Bob

    Muscle Bob Registered User

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    Wow ! My favourite topic is back ! Hi everybody :)
    :bb:
    Lets begin...
     

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