Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread: "Monkey Wrench"

[MessierII]

There have been some high profile cases of players demanding a trade lately, Debrusk and Tarasenko, and the team did not do it. Perhaps they tried, but they can always tell the player that they didn't agree with the return, and the best thing you can do is play great and boost your value. If Anaheim thinks they can retool instead of rebuild, they might just force Gibson to stay. At least, I'd think they might wait until the summer. You never know. Maybe they can finish the season strong, made a couple adds in the summer, and be competitive again. There's so much unknown right now.

Yeah maybe either way I see it as an offseason move.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

If the Leafs end up swinging a deal for one of the big fish like Lindholm or Giordano, I wouldn't mind bringing in McDavid's buddy, Dermott, for the third pairing.

I think he'd be a smarter pickup than Soucy.

All I remember about dermott is that ridiculously stupid giveaway he made in overtime of game 6 last playoffs.

 

[ujju2]

So we’re pretenders then. Oh well, I’ve come around to accepting the fact that we’ll be the underdogs going into the playoffs again. Time for us to upset and surprise a contender, should be a fun ride if we can pull it off.

We're obviously not cup favourites, but I think there's a solid chance we're the favourites to win our 1st round matchup (whether it's the Kings or whoever). The. problem is our goaltending is so unpredictable it's hard to say what we are.

 

[Yuke]

I disagree. We have a stocked cupboard of assets that aren't NHL assets. The trade would be something like Skinner, Holloway, and draft picks. Although we would have to make room, so perhaps Koskinen or Smith going the other way, and maybe Archibald and Kassian.

So 2 firsts and our future goalie. Plus someone with $$ contract to even it out.
I'd be pisssed and Holland rightfully wouldn't do it. He is making a franchise team not a quick flash. Kane will not be here next year unless he signs real cheap, isn't that where Holloway comes in?
With Koskinen gone next year and you traded Skinner, Smith becomes backup.

 

[McDoused]

Lagesson and a 4th for Dermott?

Saved the leafs some cap and gives them a pick.

 

[McDoused]

I disagree. We have a stocked cupboard of assets that aren't NHL assets. The trade would be something like Skinner, Holloway, and draft picks. Although we would have to make room, so perhaps Koskinen or Smith going the other way, and maybe Archibald and Kassian.

Anaheim fans seemed to be okay with a 1st, Holloway and Skinner for Gibson. Obviously I agree that we might need a cap dump on top of it to balance things out.

It would suck to lose Holloway and Skinner to a lesser extent but you have to give something to get something. We would essentially add an elite goaltender on the roster without losing a roster player.

 

[unicornBLOOD]

it's pretty clear that a major goaltending upgrade isn't gonna happen. A top 4, defensive defensemen would be the nest best thing. I'd be all over that. I like our forwards, maybe a 3rd/4th liner who is good on the PK, if we can get one cheap. So, while I don't see us a big name hunter. Holland could make a few moves that could help improve this team.

 

[McDoused]

So 2 firsts and our future goalie. Plus someone with $$ contract to even it out.
I'd be pisssed and Holland rightfully wouldn't do it. He is making a franchise team not a quick flash. Kane will not be here next year unless he signs real cheap, isn't that where Holloway comes in?
With Koskinen gone next year and you traded Skinner, Smith becomes backup.

It's a chessboard. Sometimes you have to moves the pieces around to acquire what you need. Adding an elite goaltender is worth it and you try to plug the backup goalie and LW during the offseason or next deadline.

 

[belair]

There have been some high profile cases of players demanding a trade lately, Debrusk and Tarasenko, and the team did not do it. Perhaps they tried, but they can always tell the player that they didn't agree with the return, and the best thing you can do is play great and boost your value. If Anaheim thinks they can retool instead of rebuild, they might just force Gibson to stay. At least, I'd think they might wait until the summer. You never know. Maybe they can finish the season strong, made a couple adds in the summer, and be competitive again. There's so much unknown right now.

There have been a number of cases like that this year. Strome, Domi, Kubalik, Georgiev, Korpisalo and Dermott have all actively been shopped this season with very little interest.

I know it looks like a seller's market, but some of these guys are probably moving for late picks.

 

[Mr Positive]

Blackwood has been on the IR since late January. Looking into it, he had offseason heel surgery and is out with a heel injury right now. I'm not sure if he injured the repaired one or if it's the other one. I'd stay away from him for the time being. He doesn't help the team any being on the IR.

that makes him a risk but an interesting one. When he was on his game, he was looking like a real starter. If he's on the IR, he at least gives back the cap space. He's the exact kind of goalie that would be good to try out. It's one of those things that's no ideal, but when you neglect the position for this long you have to take interesting risks.

Sportsnet has his return from IR as coming right away btw. So day-to-day, maybe a couple weeks. But imo GMs would want to stay away because of the uncertainty.

 

[belair]

Dermott and Barrie had good metrics in the brief period they played together as well.

 

[McTedi]

It's a chessboard. Sometimes you have to moves the pieces around to acquire what you need. Adding an elite goaltender is worth it and you try to plug the backup goalie and LW during the offseason or next deadline.

It's a chessboard. Sometimes you have to moves the pieces around to acquire what you need. Adding an elite goaltender is worth it and you try to plug the backup goalie and LW during the offseason or next deadline.

You would have to be 100% sold on Gibson to pay that price. He has a sizable cap hit with term. In theory he could be missing piece but is he an actual elite goalie? His stats are somewhat average. I wonder if the Oilers could make do with a good tandem like Georgiev and Skinner, and maybe a starter emerges. Beef up the blueline and who knows. Cheaper without giving up too many futures.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Dermott and Barrie had good metrics in the brief period they played together as well.

Why do we want a 7/8 d from a team that’s not known for good defence?

 

[Mr Positive]

Anaheim fans seemed to be okay with a 1st, Holloway and Skinner for Gibson. Obviously I agree that we might need a cap dump on top of it to balance things out.

It would suck to lose Holloway and Skinner to a lesser extent but you have to give something to get something. We would essentially add an elite goaltender on the roster without losing a roster player.

I totally agree with this principle. I also think we are in perhaps the best position to make this offer. I've heard that a team like Toronto would like Gibson but they don't have a prospect as good as Holloway, and don't have a goalie prospect as good as Skinner. Also, there are teams with better prospects than Holloway who would want Gibson, but in most cases they are rebuilding teams who would prefer their prospect.

But, we are horribly positioned to trade for him from a geography perspective. Star players get traded cross-conference. It's not a 100% rule, but they would sacrifice some value in order to move him far, far away. Gibson would be a reminder of their failures in recent years.

 

[Mez]

Why do we want a 7/8 d from a team that’s not known for good defence?

excellent question

 

[belair]

Why do we want a 7/8 d from a team that’s not known for good defence?

Soucy is a bottom pairing defenseman on a worse team defensively.

Dermott is being discussed because the cost of guys like Soucy and Middleton are in the 2nd round plus territory. Dermott is a player Toronto has to move if they want to make a play on the deadline market.

It's time to dissect the games of bottom pairing defensemen. Which ones could thrive with better opportunity? Because in all likelihood, they're going to play with either Barrie or Bouchard.

 

[McDoused]

You would have to be 100% sold on Gibson to pay that price. He has a sizable cap hit with term. In theory he could be missing piece but is he an actual elite goalie? His stats are somewhat average. I wonder if the Oilers could make do with a good tandem like Georgiev and Skinner, and maybe a starter emerges. Beef up the blueline and who knows. Cheaper without giving up too many futures.

Gibson is a proven starter. I would rather pony up and gamble on Gibson than trying to rotate an unproven guy like Georgiev. We need stability in net and Gibson gives us that.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Soucy is a bottom pairing defenseman on a worse team defensively.

Dermott is being discussed because the cost of guys like Soucy and Middleton are in the 2nd round plus territory. Dermott is a player Toronto has to move if they want to make a play on the deadline market.

It's time to dissect the games of bottom pairing defensemen. Which ones could thrive with better opportunity? Because in all likelihood, they're going to play with either Barrie or Bouchard.

Dermott isn’t any better than what we have though? Do you actually see him as better than Lagesson or Russell? He is also signed for one more year and then RFA so he will be more costly than a rental. He also is a 6/7 d that’s going to cost us in that 2nd range. If we are doing that I would rather a defender like Soucy who is a 5

 

[McDoused]

Soucy is a bottom pairing defenseman on a worse team defensively.

Dermott is being discussed because the cost of guys like Soucy and Middleton are in the 2nd round plus territory. Dermott is a player Toronto has to move if they want to make a play on the deadline market.

It's time to dissect the games of bottom pairing defensemen. Which ones could thrive with better opportunity? Because in all likelihood, they're going to play with either Barrie or Bouchard.

I was all for grabbing Dermott because I thought the cost would be like a 4th rounder or cheaper. Leaf fans on the mains are asking for a 2nd and think hes worth more than gio lol. No thank you for a guy who has 5 points this year.

 

[Mr Positive]

with Dermott, I haven't watched him a lot but is he a big step up from Russell for example?

 

[TKB21]

We're obviously not cup favourites, but I think there's a solid chance we're the favourites to win our 1st round matchup (whether it's the Kings or whoever). The. problem is our goaltending is so unpredictable it's hard to say what we are.

This x1000. Its why assets need to be moved to invest in legit goaltending. Going into the playoffs with this two headed monster is almost a guaranteed first round loss. We would know what kind of team we have if we had real goaltending, the D and forwards might only need minor tinkering.

 

[CycloneSweep]

with Dermott, I haven't watched him a lot but is he a big step up from Russell for example?

Not really. He is young and different. That’s it. I’ve liked Lagessons game more than Dermott

 

[Ritchie Valens]

New thread is up as this one hit 1K posts.

Rumor: - Rumours & Proposals Thread: "I Heard It Through The Grapevine"

Ooh, I bet you're wonderin' how we knew 'Bout your rumoured trade to the orange and blue For some guy who played with us before And some picks to balance the score It took HFOil by surprise we must say When Stauffer was talking 'bout you yesterday Don'tcha know that we... Heard it through the...

hfboards.mandatory.com

May as well continue discussion here though until a mod locks 'er up.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Gibson is overrated...

past 3 seasons (19-10, 20-21, 21-22):

Gibson 90.4%
Koskinen 90.8%
Smith 90.8%
Skinner 90.9% (small sample obviously)


Yes a that's VERY imprecise way to judge goalies (I use Medium danger goals against average & Expected GAA vs actual GAA as better correlative indicators to future performance)... but even in those "better" stats... he's still behind Koskinen these past 3 seasons and 3 season is getting to be a pretty large sample size (99 games for Koskinen vs 130 games for Gibson.


I just threw up the raw Sv pct stats to highlight that both those teams Ducks/Oilers have generally poor defense.. coming into the season I ranked the Oilers with the 22nd best dmen in the NHL and the Ducks at #25 based on the past 2 years stats for their dmen... so both teams don't do their goalies any favours.


Point being... in 2 years Skinner could very easily be better than Gibson (even next year could show that)... and there's nothing to show that Gibson is even a "great" starter in the NHL never mind an elite starter worthy of throwing big assets at to acquire.

I think Ducks would be happy to trade Gibson for a pile of assets because they realize they have a better goalie (or likely just as good) in Stolarz who is underrated (with a smaller sample size of course.... much like Skinner).