Round 2, Vote 8 (Stanley Cup Playoff Performers)

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Horton and Stanley as a duo were vastly superior than the individual talents might suggest. In the playoffs their offensive talents were nearly equal. Stanley 43 points in 109 games while Horton registered 50 points in 126 games. Very marginal edge to Horton. Mainly due to 1962. .

Two key considerations.

From 1957 to 1967 Stanley`s teams made the SC finals 8 out of 11 seasons. Hurt , missed the 1957 playoffs. 1958 Bruins with Stanley gave the Canadiens their strongest opposition between 1956 and 1960.

Gordie Howe. Was Stanley`s main responsibility coming down the RW.

Let's be careful not to straight up Cup count when it comes to Allan Stanley. In Boston, from what I've read, Fleming MacKell and Fern Flaman were considered the most important players when they reached the Cup finals (which of course only required winning a single round at the time). Do you disagree?

And on Toronto's dynasty, Stanley was definitely important, but he was the 3rd most important defenseman behind Horton and Brewer, right? (Not saying anything about the forwards). Or do you believe his role was more important than Brewer's in the playoffs?

___________________

In terms of offensive stats, it depends on whether you like Stanley consistently chipping in points, or Horton putting up two big runs, with fewer points in between.

Horton's first huge run - 1962 when he led the Leafs to their first Cup in over a decade with 16 points in 12 games. Horton was easily the MVP of that Cup winner. The Conn Smythe trophy didn't exist yet, but it's obvious that if it did, it would have been won by either Horton or Mikita (who set an NHL record for points in the playoffs, in a losing cause).

His second big run wasn't as huge, but was still important - 1967, when an aging Leafs team had their last hurrah. Horton had 8 points in 12 games, tied for 4th on the team and 7th in the league.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

At least he came up. Where is Keon? That said, right now Horton will be my second pick behind the criminally overlooked Billy Smith.

How about Cy Denneny? 16 goals in 25 games, 4 Cups and was the team enforcer.

Jacques Lemaire having a legit shot to be added this round, with Keon never even showing up is pretty good fodder for critics of this list.

As for Denneny, his stats are great, but recall from the wingers project that he just wasn't considered a vital cog in the Ottawa machine like Frank Nighbor or Eddie Gerard. Wasn't Denneny even benched from time to time in the playoffs?

 

[Canadiens1958]

Allan Stanley

Let's be careful not to straight up Cup count when it comes to Allan Stanley. In Boston, from what I've read, Fleming MacKell and Fern Flaman were considered the most important players when they reached the Cup finals (which of course only required winning a single round at the time). Do you disagree?

And on Toronto's dynasty, Stanley was definitely important, but he was the 3rd most important defenseman behind Horton and Brewer, right? (Not saying anything about the forwards). Or do you believe his role was more important than Brewer's in the playoffs?

___________________

In terms of offensive stats, it depends on whether you like Stanley consistently chipping in points, or Horton putting up two big runs, with fewer points in between.

Horton's first huge run - 1962 when he led the Leafs to their first Cup in over a decade with 16 points in 12 games. Horton was easily the MVP of that Cup winner. The Conn Smythe trophy didn't exist yet, but it's obvious that if it did, it would have been won by either Horton or Mikita (who set an NHL record for points in the playoffs, in a losing cause).

His second big run wasn't as huge, but was still important - 1967, when an aging Leafs team had their last hurrah. Horton had 8 points in 12 games, tied for 4th on the team and 7th in the league.

Yet Stanley then Leo Boivin were named to the HHOF before Fern Flaman regardless of the fact that Flaman retired at least eight seasons before them. Traded to Toronto in 1958. Stanley was part of the 1959 Leaf upset of the Bruins in the semis. Counting seems to be your issue. Other than Harvey amongst defenceman no one had a similar streak. Even a depth type like Jean-Guy Talbot required 13 seasons to appear in 8 finals.

Fleming Mackell was the Bruins best forward during the 1957-59 playoff run. Little consolation in 1959 when the Bruins allowed a pop gun Leaf offence, 5th in scoring to play like the Canadiens.

Carl Brewer. You raised offence from defencemen so I will reply in kind. 1962-64 Leafs SC teams, Brewer was 4th in defencemen scoring behind Horton, Stanley and Baun.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Billy Smith vs. Martin Brodeur (min. 3 rounds)
64.4% EvE - Smith, 1983
64.9% EvE - Brodeur, 1995
66.9% EvE - Brodeur, 1994
68.8% EvE - Brodeur, 2003
69.7% EvE - Smith, 1977
70.5% EvE - Smith, 1984
70.8% EvE - Brodeur, 2000
71.0% EvE - Smith, 1982
74.8% EvE - Smith, 1980
78.1% EvE - Smith, 1981
96.2% EvE - Brodeur, 2001
97.2% EvE - Brodeur, 2012

I don't think we necessarily got it wrong having Brodeur ahead, but I also don't think Smith would be too far behind. He also has the 2nd best error rate vs. expectation in a post-1968 Stanley Cup Final (1983).

 

[BenchBrawl]

Jacques Lemaire having a legit shot to be added this round, with Keon never even showing up is pretty good fodder for critics of this list.

As for Denneny, his stats are great, but recall from the wingers project that he just wasn't considered a vital cog in the Ottawa machine like Frank Nighbor or Eddie Gerard. Wasn't Denneny even benched from time to time in the playoffs?

Pretty sure I've read this very recently.This is why I will have Kane over Denneny.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Feel free to send in those votes, and we'll get those final results up first thing on Monday. Great work, everybody!

 

[BenchBrawl]

Voted.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Only 2 points separate #1-5, so if one of blogofmike, bobholly39, Johnny Engine, Mike Farkas, seventieslord, and TheGeneral could send in a ballot and break up some three-way ties, we can finish up.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Only 2 points separate #1-5, so if one of blogofmike, bobholly39, Johnny Engine, Mike Farkas, seventieslord, and TheGeneral could send in a ballot and break up some three-way ties, we can finish up.

I'll have one in this evening.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I'll have one in this evening.

Sounds good. I'll give everyone who wants to submit a ballot until 10pm EST, at which point the final results will be calculated and reported. Then I'll post the aggregate list and we'll begin rolling out the individual lists over this week.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I should also be able to vote by tonight. I was out all weekend on a self-destructive bender, apologies...

 

[quoipourquoi]

I should also be able to vote by tonight. I was out all weekend on a self-destructive bender, apologies...

That'll be my excuse when my voting record is posted.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I will have absolutely no room to talk...

 

[seventieslord]

Tonight for me as well.