Why Aurele Joliat will be in my top 4
After looking at the numbers and reading through what's been presented in these threads, I have decided that I underrated Joliat a bit on my Round 1 list. I now think he's probably a top 20 winger of all-time.
First, from tarheel's earlier post:
Dickie Moore could fit the description too, but he's harder to compare to the others, so I'm going to stick with the 4 tarheel listed.
Longevity and consistency as an elite player / career value
I think this is the biggest advantage Joliat has over Blake and Kurri.
Look at Joliat's awards recognition.
Keep in mind that the 1927 and 1928 All Star Teams are the only ones we've been able to dig up from before 1931, and Joliat is on both:
- 5th in Hart voting in 1925 (split league)
- GM-voted 2nd Team All-Star in 1927 (thanks overpass) - one of the few seasons when Joliat dropped out of the top 10 in scoring (actually fell out of the top 20 ) - shows his value as a defensive player
- GM-voted 2nd Team All-Star in 1928
Now after the official All-Star Teams were created for 1931
- 1st Team All-Star LW in 1931
- 2nd Team All-Star LW in 1932 (behind Busher Jackson)
- 5th in AS LW voting in 1933
- 2nd Team All-Star LW in 1934 (behind Busher Jackson), HART TROPHY
- 2nd Team All-Star LW in 1935 (behind Busher Jackson), 5th in Hart voting
- 3rd in AS LW voting in 1936
- 4th in AS LW voting in 1937
That's a significantly longer period of relevance than Bentley, Blake, or Kurri
He was known as a playmaker, playing on a team that may have been stingy at giving away assists
When looking for evidence for the claim that Denneny's Senators may have overcounted assists (conclusion: they probably did, but only by a little), MXD surprised everyone including himself by discovering that Montreal seemed to be the one team that handed out assists quite a bit more sparingly than most teams. He only found the data for the beginning of Joliat's prime, but it's worth noting:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=91375671&postcount=131
(See also reckoning's post for the 1930-31 season which also showed the Canadiens well below average in assists-per-goal, though not at the bottom:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=91605005&postcount=12)
This could be relevant, because Joliat was anecdotally a strong playmaker:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AJ&pg=4301,1318041&dq=lach+morenz+irvin&hl=en
If you go to the original article, it seems like puck possession is considered an important aspect of "playmaking." I think a classic "playmaker" was like a point guard in basketball - he was the guy who stickhandled the puck down the ice and made the first pass in the offensive zone - more important back when players couldn't pass the puck forward between zones. This might be why Ferguson says what he says, despite Morenz putting up better assist totals than Joliat.
Point being that Joliat's offensive contributions may be underrated slightly by looking at the stats.
Highly regarded by contemporary opinion
The inaugural 1945 class of the Hockey Hall of Fame consisted entirely of deceased players, so the 1947 class was the first one to induct living players. Dit Clapper, Aurel Joliat, Frank Nighbor, and Eddie Shore were the first still-living men who played hockey in the late 1920s and 1930s to be inducted into the HHOF (in 1947).
In 1962, Frank Boucher picked Joliat as the Left Wing on his "All-Time All-Star team," though it is obvious from the names that he was just picking players he played with or against, which means he just picked Joliat over Jackson:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=4844,3988229&dq=chuck+gardiner+best&hl=en
How I rank these 4 players
1) Joliat. I think he, Blake, and Kurri were probably similar quality players but Joliat maintained that level for quite a bit longer. Joliat will be in my top 4.
2/3. Blake/Kurri. I still can't see any noticeable difference in quality between them. Unless someone makes a good argument, these two will likely be back-to-back on my ballot, probably in the 5-8 range.
4. Bentley. I think he loses his small regular season edge on Blake/Kurri if we take into account Chicago's generosity in handing out assists. And if Bentley has similar regular season value to Blake/Kurri, he gets ranked below them because he lacks the playoff resume (possibly because of opportunity, but that's the way the puck bounces). Bentley will probably not be in my top 8.